Trump Organization found guilty on all counts of criminal tax fraud

[Dude#1279435]

 

[Mr._Clark]

Today's episode of "Trump's lawyers get their *sses handed to them in court" is brought to you courtesy of judge Robert Reed.

I wonder if the people who give their money to Trump realize that quite a bit of it goes to the lawyers on the other side of the various lawsuits.

>>>A New York judge dismissed a 2021 lawsuit that former President Donald Trump brought against the New York Times and its journalists over the disclosure of his tax information in a 2018 Times article.

With the order granting the Times’ motion to dismiss the Trump case against it and its journalists, Judge Robert Teed Reed, of New York County Supreme Court, ordered Trump to pay their attorneys’ fees, legal expenses and costs.<<< (emphasis added)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/media/new-york-times-donald-trump-lawsuit/index.html

 

[TLS Guy]

Today's episode of "Trump's lawyers get their *sses handed to them in court" is brought to you courtesy of judge Robert Reed.

I wonder if the people who give their money to Trump realize that quite a bit of it goes to the lawyers on the other side of the various lawsuits.

>>>A New York judge dismissed a 2021 lawsuit that former President Donald Trump brought against the New York Times and its journalists over the disclosure of his tax information in a 2018 Times article.

With the order granting the Times’ motion to dismiss the Trump case against it and its journalists, Judge Robert Teed Reed, of New York County Supreme Court, ordered Trump to pay their attorneys’ fees, legal expenses and costs.<<< (emphasis added)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/media/new-york-times-donald-trump-lawsuit/index.html

It looks very bad for Trump. A Proud Boy, who was not even at the capitol got a hefty sentence for an organizing role in the Jan 6 fiasco today. So there is now precedent of a conviction without actually being there and physically taking part in the riot. So that means the odds of Trump being convicted for his part in Jan.6, have gone up massively because of this case law precedent.

 

[Dude#1279435]

It looks very bad for Trump. A Proud Boy, who was not even at the capitol got a hefty sentence for an organizing role in the Jan 6 fiasco today. So there is now precedent of a conviction without actually being there and physically taking part in the riot. So that means the odds of Trump being convicted for his part in Jan.6, have gone up massively because of this case law precedent.

Hopefully I soon can sigh in relief. It was this or depend on Republican voters.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Habba is also representing Trump in the NY civil fraud case. She just got her *ss handed to her by the judge in that case:

>>>"I ruled on all these issues. It seems to me the facts are the same. The law is the same. Parties are the same," Engoron told Alina Habba, Trump's lawyer. "You can't keep making the same argument after you've already lost."<<< (emphasis added)

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump-rebuffed-by-judge-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-trial-date-set-2022-11-22/

(sarcasm alert) one might notice a pattern developing.

So, we don't quite have a new episode of "Trump's lawyers get their *sses handed to them in court" right now, but they seem to be rehearsing for the next episode.

Habba apparently didn't file a request for a jury trial in the NY civil fraud case. If the reports are correct, this does seem like a major F up. It's conceivable (barely) that she thought a NY jury would be exceptionally hostile to Trump and decided to go with a bench trial.

>>>New York Judge Arthur Ergoron on Monday said that he is holding a bench trial in New York Attorney General Letitia James fraud lawsuit against former President Donald Trump because "nobody asked for" a jury trial on either side, The Messenger's Adam Klasfeld reported. "Trump isn't getting a jury trial in his $250m civil fraud suit brought against him by New York AG James because his legal team didn't request one on the paperwork," explained The Guardian's Hugo Lowell.

Legal experts were stunned by the revelation, characterizing it as a blunder by the former president's lawyers. "So Alina Habba didn't demand a jury trial?!" wrote MSNBC legal analyst Katie Phang. "I wonder how Trump feels about this screw-up by his legal team." Former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman called the decision "mind-blowing."<<<

“Mind-blowing”: Legal experts warn that lawyer’s incredible “screw-up” is “very ominous” for Trump

Trump facing bench trial because "nobody asked for" a jury trial, judge says

news.yahoo.com

 

[mtrycrafts]

So, we don't quite have a new episode of "Trump's lawyers get their *sses handed to them in court" right now, but they seem to be rehearsing for the next episode.

Habba apparently didn't file a request for a jury trial in the NY civil fraud case. If the reports are correct, this does seem like a major F up. It's conceivable (barely) that she thought a NY jury would be exceptionally hostile to Trump and decided to go with a bench trial.

>>>New York Judge Arthur Ergoron on Monday said that he is holding a bench trial in New York Attorney General Letitia James fraud lawsuit against former President Donald Trump because "nobody asked for" a jury trial on either side, The Messenger's Adam Klasfeld reported. "Trump isn't getting a jury trial in his $250m civil fraud suit brought against him by New York AG James because his legal team didn't request one on the paperwork," explained The Guardian's Hugo Lowell.

Legal experts were stunned by the revelation, characterizing it as a blunder by the former president's lawyers. "So Alina Habba didn't demand a jury trial?!" wrote MSNBC legal analyst Katie Phang. "I wonder how Trump feels about this screw-up by his legal team." Former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman called the decision "mind-blowing."<<<

“Mind-blowing”: Legal experts warn that lawyer’s incredible “screw-up” is “very ominous” for Trump

Trump facing bench trial because "nobody asked for" a jury trial, judge says

news.yahoo.com

Could this be so Trump team could use this on appeal, postpone everything and get a real trial by jury? A delay tactic?

 

[highfigh]

This should at least help out on the civil lawsuit to put a bigger dent in the drumph purse.....right?

Corporations provide protection to the principals- there's little chance that he would be liable, personally.

 

[ryanosaur]

Corporations provide protection to the principals- there's little chance that he would be liable, personally.

Not from criminal or fraudulent behavior on his part (or at his direction or with his knowledge) though...
This seems like a short ride to Trump&cos. getting booted from operating in NY with a hefty fine to boot. It's early yet, and anything is possible.
But just like your non-stick pans at home, Teflon wears off, even from the Don.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Could this be so Trump team could use this on appeal, postpone everything and get a real trial by jury? A delay tactic?

I've wondered about that. Trump has been attacking the judge constantly. I suppose it's possible he's hoping the judge will react in a way that gives him an argument on appeal that the judge was biased, and he in theory could get the decision tossed.

This would be such a long shot it's hard to imagine that someone would try it. Applying Occam's razor suggests that Trump's lawyers F'd up.

But, I don't really know. Anything is possible.

 

[TLS Guy]

Could this be so Trump team could use this on appeal, postpone everything and get a real trial by jury? A delay tactic?

You can attempt anything. However Trumps has already lost this case by summary judgement. This means that an experienced judge has determined the facts are indisputable. So the only matter to be decided is what settlement is required for the fraud that has been deemed to have been perpetrated. So Trump is already behind the eight ball on this one.

 

[Mikado463]

You can attempt anything. However Trumps has already lost this case by summary judgement. This means that an experienced judge has determined the facts are indisputable. So the only matter to be decided is what settlement is required for the fraud that has been deemed to have been perpetrated. So Trump is already behind the eight ball on this one.

yet on the other hand it continues to 'feed' the MAGA misfits behind him.

 

[TLS Guy]

yet on the other hand it continues to 'feed' the MAGA misfits behind him.

That is a good point to make. So there are one of two problems or both. The first is that Americans are not properly taught history and it significance, just wokery largely. So they have no idea of the history of fascism and its results. The other conclusion is that they are enamoured with fascist states and want to live in one.

 

[highfigh]

Not from criminal or fraudulent behavior on his part (or at his direction or with his knowledge) though...
This seems like a short ride to Trump&cos. getting booted from operating in NY with a hefty fine to boot. It's early yet, and anything is possible.
But just like your non-stick pans at home, Teflon wears off, even from the Don.

It can be ground off, too. Very effective.

 

[Mikado463]

a different view / take on yesterdays proceedings ...........

 

[Trell]

That is a good point to make. So there are one of two problems or both. The first is that Americans are not properly taught history and it significance, just wokery largely. So they have no idea of the history of fascism and its results. The other conclusion is that they are enamoured with fascist states and want to live in one.

Considering the big support the extreme right/fascists/authoritarians have in Europe, especially in some of the European countries, I think it's fair to say MAGA movement is enamoured with fascism combined with theocracy. They are a clear and present danger to US democracy, and by extension, to the rest of the free and democratic world.

 

[TLS Guy]

Considering the big support the extreme right/fascists/authoritarians have in Europe, especially in some of the European countries, I think it's fair to say MAGA movement is enamoured with fascism combined with theocracy. They are a clear and present danger to US democracy, and by extension, to the rest of the free and democratic world.

Unfortunately I agree with you. Armenia/Azerbaijan and most worryingly of all the Balkan states are coming on the boil again. Anyone who knows any European history should be truly worried about the latter. There are also, I believe, significant fascist movements in Germany, Italy and Spain, bit also to some extent in the UK and France. Both the UK and France have toyed with fascism from time to time.

Now very worryingly there seems to be a strong undercurrent of fascism in the US. I think this is fairly new to the American Politic, but I think was a factor in the US, before and during WWII, before Pearl Harbor. The head of American Standard oil, was a particularly dangerous and influential fascist. Churchill was worried enough about his influence he sent a secret agent to murder him. The agent strangled him in a hotel room. This was not revealed until many years later, I think about 20 years ago or so. It just shows how ruthless Churchill was prepared to be.

The problem with American Fascists is that they are so stupid, they don't know they are, or what Fascism is. In fact they have probably never heard of it!

 

[Mr._Clark]

Could this be so Trump team could use this on appeal, postpone everything and get a real trial by jury? A delay tactic?

Not requesting a jury trial might not have been a complete fork up after all.

>>>Engoron [the judge] said that neither side sought a jury and that state law doesn't allow for juries when suits seek not only money but a court order setting out something a defendant must do or not do.<<<

https://www.kcra.com/article/donald-trump-court-new-york-trial-business-practices/45406762

In hindsight I should have investigated this issue prior to posting. It appears to me that many commentators who should have known better got this one wrong.

Disclaimer: I still have not investigated this issue in detail, so it's not entirely clear that Trump could not have even requested a jury.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

In hindsight I should have investigated this issue prior to posting. It appears to me that many commentators who should have known better got this one wrong.

Disclaimer: I still have not investigated this issue in detail, so it's not entirely clear that Trump could not have even requested a jury.

No way one can know all laws of all states.

 

[Swerd]

The head of American Standard oil, was a particularly dangerous and influential fascist. Churchill was worried enough about his influence he sent a secret agent to murder him. The agent strangled him in a hotel room. This was not revealed until many years later, I think about 20 years ago or so. It just shows how ruthless Churchill was prepared to be.

I'm curious to read more about this. What was the name of this Standard Oil head who was murdered? I did a quick Google search with the info you provided, but I didn't find anything.

FWIW, it's said that Henry Ford of Ford Motors had lobbied FDR during the war with an unusual request. Because US Army bombers were built at some of his factories, Willow Run and others, he didn't want 'his' bombers to strike factories in Germany that he also owned. I don't know how the White House replied to that, but it might have been something like 'Be fruitful and multiply', but not in those exact words.

 

[highfigh]

I'm curious to read more about this. What was the name of this Standard Oil head who was murdered? I did a quick Google search with the info you provided, but I didn't find anything.

FWIW, it's said that Henry Ford of Ford Motors had lobbied FDR during the war with an unusual request. Because US Army bombers were built at some of his factories, Willow Run and others, he didn't want 'his' bombers to strike factories in Germany that he also owned. I don't know how the White House replied to that, but it might have been something like 'Be fruitful and multiply', but not in those exact words.

Ford was a known Nazi sympathizer and anti-Semite-

Henry Ford Was A Staunch Nazi Sympathizer — And Admired By Hitler

Hitler openly praised Ford for his anti-semitism in Mein Kampf: "Only a single great man, Ford, to their fury still maintains full independence."

allthatsinteresting.com