Triad vs. Snell

[Sridhar C]

I am about to buy a Triad in-room gold 5.1 speaker system, but am trying to decide if I should shell out a little extra money for a set of Snell xa2500's. The Triads are $1700 each for the three mains; the Snells list for $3000, and I hope to be able to get them for less than $2500. Does anyone have experience in this regard? They would be connected to Anthem A5 (265 wpc at 4 ohms) and AVM 40 in a 15 (w) x 20 (l) x 8.5 (h) room.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Great choices. Both companies offer a fine home theater experience. I'm an A/V integrator and have used Triad products, primarily for in-wall applications, and find them to be very good.

HOWEVER, a few weeks ago in a meeting with the Snell rep I had the chance to sit down and listen to a few pieces from their product line. For the dollar I think Snell offers more. Their in-walls are back boxed and sound great. Their boxed product has a great fit and finish as well. I'm making the switch to Snell and have started presenting it to my clients because from a value stand point there's no comparison between the two (my opinion). You can make comparisons between the quality of the different models, sure, but for me the Snells were the better choice.

I cannot speak to the quality of the Snell xa2500 because I did not see or hear them. I have used the Triad In-room and In-wall Gold models and find them to be so-so. There just wasn't a WOW! factor for the $. I listened to the M7's and LCR7 and thought they were excellent. I'm sure the xa2500's would be killer. I doubt I'll ever use those except in retrofit applications becasue for a system in the price range, I feel that there are better options available.

Question: Is this system being designed from scratch or do you already have the Amp & Pre-pro? If you are starting from scratch and for the kind of coin you are looking at dropping, I have another system suggestion for you to consider.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Actually, just thought of this....

The xa1900 line would be in the same price category as the Triad Gold's and, would offer an excellent experience as well as a few different cabinet configurations.

 

[Sridhar C]

From scratch

Yes, this is a system from scratch. I don't have anything yet, but it's to be ordered soon. I have an installer who is really flexible. He's not an anthem dealer, but he knows someone and said he can hook me up. But he didn't sell me on anthem; I settled on it myself before I ever sat down with him.

The other equipment:

1. JVC DLA-RS1 projector
2. Stewart Firehawk G3
3. Oppo upscaler or Toshiba XA2
4. Velocity Micro Cinemagix HTPC

I'm curious to see what's better for the money than Anthem.

 

[InTheIndustry]

Loooooonnnnnggggg Reply....

Please don't take me the wrong way, Anthem gear is excellent. The pre-pro you are looking at is fine and so is the amp. What I type below is only a suggestion in the effort to help you with what, obviously, is going to be a killer system.

For a system in the realm of what you are assembling piece by piece I would research the Phase Technology dARTS system before making your purchase. The dARTS systems are the finest I have ever heard. I like it better than the JBL Synthesis (which are priced between $60K - $120K) and the Meridian systems in that range as well. For an investment like what you are making it's worth researching it for 30 mins.

Since your budget for speakers can strech to under 2500 each (for the fronts) I think it would be fair (for price comparison) to look at a speaker system in the range of $2100 per speaker or less. $2100 x6 (5 + 1 for the sub) is $12600 before amplification.

There are two Phase Technology dARTS systems to choose from that I would recommend for your room. Both are 5.2 (two subs). The first would be the DP1052FS which retails at $12,800. The other is the DP2052FS and reatila $18,300. Before you think that either would blow your budget you should know that these systems come with a 16 channel digital amp. All you need to do is add the Anthem pre-pro and you're done. There is no sound quality difference between in-room, in-wall, in-cabinet. You can mix and match whatever you need. I also listed pricing for the in-room systems which are a little more than the in-cabinet product. There are all in all 36 different versions of dARTS to choose from. Prices range $10K - $20K. Selecting the right one is easy, though. How many channels? In-room, in-wall, or in-cabinet? Cubic feet in the room? That's it.

Here's a copy and paste of an e-mail Phase Tech (I'm a dealer) sent to me regarding CES 2007:
FromSubject: More great dARTS PR!
Good morning to all:

I don’t know about you, but I certainly don’t get tired of seeing the accolades our dARTS systems continue to receive. The Perfect Vision recently published their CES reports in the April 2007 issue, and followed up on their rave dARTS 525 review (March 2007 – reprints now available) by giving us the two mentions in their “Best of CES” summary (copied below). Please note that the Audyssey award is qualified by the inclusion of “…as applied in the Phase Technology DARTS multichannel speaker system,” reflecting our totally closed-loop system where the amplifier and speakers were designed for each other, and then sent as a system to Audyssey to develop custom curves for ultimate performance. Also be aware that the Best Demo/Best Sound winners in the stereo category cost $60,000/pr and $185,000/pr respectively, and that there were LOTS of surround systems available costing many times the modest price of our dARTS – pretty heady company to be in!

We’re very gratified to receive this ongoing recognition. We have a “tiger by the tail” in dARTS, with nothing else like it in the world!

BEST of AUDIO - CES 2007

Greatest Technological Breakthrough

Audyssey Laboratories DSP-driven room/speaker equal*ization systems, as applied in the Phase Technology DARTS multichannel speaker system. This technology promises speakers that adapt to listening spaces, producing great sound for every seat in the room. audyssey.com, phasetech.com

Best Demo/Best Sound

Stereo: The JBL Everest DD66000 and MBL 101x speaker systems. Both give a mind-blowing taste of high-end excellence in action.

Multichannel: Phase Technology’s DARTS 525 self-powered, DSP-controlled speaker system. Think explosive dynamics and uncanny transparency. mbl-germany.de, jbl.com, phasetech.com

* End E-mail *

Ultimately, dARTS won The Absolute Sound April/May 2007 CES "Best Sound" award.

See some of the links below if you'd like to learn more....

http://phasetech.com/darts.html

http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1006phasedarts/

http://www.phasetech.com/pdfs/reviews/review5/DP-2000-review5.pdf

http://www.hometoys.com/news.php4?section=view&id=12343597

I'm a hobbyist before I'm a dealer and I am extremely passionate about the dARTS system (if you couldn't tell).

If you would seriously consider it, call Phase Technology and ask for Ken Hecht. He owns the company and designed the dARTS system and fields any and all calls for it. He would be happy to speak with you I'm sure.

Hope any of this helps you in your search for a great system. And, by the way, the projector you're going with is killer!

 

[InTheIndustry]

Sorry, I don't mean to highjack the thread and start talking about something other than Triad and Snell which are both fine fine speaker makers. I'm going to refrain from speaking any more about it in this thread unless the OP offers comments about it.

 

[Sridhar C]

Great info

No apology needed. I wish I had known about this earlier. I am familiar with Hometheater mag and the 98 performance rating is as high as any I've seen. Do you know of anything that's scored higher, just out of curiosity? It's not the only all-digital system, though, is it. Doesn't NHT have something like this? I'm going to pursue this.

So what are the knocks against this system? I'm sure some will pooh-pooh the all-digital aspect, though it won't be me. Why isn't this talked about more? Because it's new? I guess one knock would be that it only has 250 watts of amplification compared to the A5's 265 (LOL!). BTW, with no back wall (the basement goes back another 20 feet from the end of the 20 ft basement length), this should still be plenty of power, right?

 

[InTheIndustry]

I can answer those questions and shed a little insight as to other companies offerings as well as some things coming down the pike and in development by other brands.

If NHT has something similar in terms of sophistication and quality, I am unaware and will research them over the weekend.

Triad told me they are working with a different processing company to come out with something along the line of dARTS (although they would say that it blows dARTS away). I think their price point is going to be much higher ($7K per pair) but don't quote me on that. JLAudio is also working on this type of technology as well. In terms of realizing real world production (think potentially a year+). Systems that are already out that are similar are from JBL and Meridian. I have demoed and researched both. More on that in a minute.

I spoke with Ken Hecht who designed the system and asked him the tough question (especially for him, since it's his baby): What is the system's weakness. Answer: Two Channel Stereo. See, since the system is designed and calibrated for multi channel use (Home Theatre, multi channel music, etc.) it sounds a little lacking being played in two channel. With dARTS all of the speakers are dependant on each other to produce an enveloping sound field. If you're only using two speakers it looses depth. Essentially, it doesn't sound bad, it just images poorly when used for 2 channel. As far as sound quality goes, Phase Tech manufactures soft dome tweeters and other drivers for many many different companies. The drivers in the dARTS system are the finest quality tweeters they have ever produced.

As far as the power goes, it's 250 watts per channel X16 channels = 4000 watts total power. Keep in mind that's peak output and you'll never use it, but it's there anyway. Each speaker gets 16/4 run to it and is considered two channels. The best part about the system, the real wow factor, is that the system is completely self correcting. It sounds the same regardless of your room or if you choose in-wall or in-room. So, the issue of having a large open area in the back of your room is really not an issue at all.

Back to JBL and Meridian... Personal experience is that I have listened to systems from both at trade shows and private show room demos. These companies make just awesome stuff. Both are extremely well done. Both also cost multiple times over what the dARTS system costs (except for one Meridian system which goes in the mid $16K and is only available “in-room”). My opinion, and as you research you’ll find the opinion of others, is that the dARTS is better regardless of price point. So, in my eyes, you can spend more but you can’t get more.

Lastly, I have found InTheIndustry (shameless plug  ) that I’m in many people (mainly dealers) are adverse to new technology. That’s strange to me because isn’t that what propels improving our business? I think that a lot of industry professionals get into a comfort zone with their sales pitch like, “Paradigm’s the best because….”, and are afraid to change off of it. Well, in an incredibly shrinking world things change faster and faster. Manufacturing processes, company engineering & design philosophy, profit & loss statements, and on and on change what almost seems like quarterly. Some people embrace those changes with acceptance and enthusiasm. Others… well, if you don’t see or acknowledge it, does it truly exist?

*Disclaimer: In no way am I downing conventional home theatre systems. There are many of them out there from thousands of companies that provide people with amazing experiences at many price points both above and blow the dARTS systems.

 

[Sridhar C]

bi-amping of dARTS

I read somewhere that the dARTS are bi- and tri-amped. But in several places on this site, it's written that bi-amping doesn't make a difference. Is this true?

 

[InTheIndustry]

I read somewhere that the dARTS are bi- and tri-amped. But in several places on this site, it's written that bi-amping doesn't make a difference. Is this true?

Bi-wiring is where there is little if not any difference in sound presentation.

This system is not a traditional home theater set-up and thus, non-traditional results. The speaker enclosures themselves house no crossover network. All of that is taken care of internaly by the digital amplifier included with the system. The amp itself is calibrated through a laptop using 15 to 32 different points in the room. The reason for 16 channels in the amp is because you run 16/4 speaker wire to each speaker (including the sub). The amp then decides when and what signals are distributed to each speaker. That's why the performance of the system is so remarkable. Everything is essentially corrected through the software so that there is litterally no bad seat in the house. No "sweet spot", so to speak. This also allows the amp to correct the speaker system to account for any reflections or problems caused by a "bad room". My experience with this in both application and research is that there is no such thing as a "bad room". That's why when you mentioned the space for your theater being open in the back I said it was no big deal.

Hope this helps!

 

[Sridhar C]

Taking the plunge

Since I am working with an installer, the local sales rep for Phase Tech said I could demo the product in my house. It's a 5.2 system with 6.5" midrange drivers.