Trade Wars

[Dude#1279435]

That a large proportion of the US population doesn't pay any income tax speaks more to income inequality than anything else.

What class doesn't pay?

 

[highfigh]

That's a nice cherry-picked stat.

You leave out that you also have ~10x the population, so of course you have a larger federal workforce. You also left out that, despite that, the cost of all federal Canadian federal employee wages for 2023 was 67.4B (roughly ~300k workers, so about 1/10th as expected). That number may be problematic for Canada in its own right, but by comparison, it doesn't paint the US federal workforce as horribly outlandish as you seem to imply it does.

Is the fact that the US population is 10x that of Canada a surprise? It was an example, nothing more and I wasn't saying the Federal workforce is horrible, I was saying that the payroll is a very large amount.

The US has more unemployed than Canada's population, too- do something with that.

 

[highfigh]

Why would you compare that to the complete Canadian budget?

Because it's only one part of the Federal budget- the deficit is $32+ Trillion- what other country spends so much more than revenue provides and why? Even Canada has a sizable deficit (that's shown in the link I posted, too), but it's nothing compared to what we have.

 

[highfigh]

None of that addresses the point I'm making, which is that the US government does not spend excessively on a per capita basis. It just makes a deliberate choice to not bring in nearly enough revenue to pay for its expenditures.

That a large proportion of the US population doesn't pay any income tax speaks more to income inequality than anything else.

And, suggesting that they're poor because there are too many immigrants who are stupid and too fecund, is a lazy argument.
And yes, I'm paraphrasing...just in case you come back with, "I didn't say that!".

Many in that part of the population don't pay taxes because they lack work skills, the ability to read/write/do basic math, didn't finish school, don't want to work, work for cash, etc. The immigrants making ANY amount of money from working regular payroll jobs makes no difference to them because they aren't competing for the same jobs.

You're not paraphrasing, you're making it up- where did I say anything about too many immigrants? Also, WRT 'fecund' as you mean it, I wasn't picking on the immigrants for that, I was going after US citizens who are in that condition- if they make low or no income, they receive benefits. Adding to the populatin while on government assistance and having no other means of support makes no sense AND it increases the taxpayer cost to support them. Then, there's the rampant shoplifting and other crimes that go along with poverty.

I hope you appreciate the life you have, unaffected by the bullshyte in large cities

 

[GO-NAD!]

Many in that part of the population don't pay taxes because they lack work skills, the ability to read/write/do basic math, didn't finish school, don't want to work, work for cash, etc. The immigrants making ANY amount of money from working regular payroll jobs makes no difference to them because they aren't competing for the same jobs.

You're not paraphrasing, you're making it up- where did I say anything about too many immigrants? Also, WRT 'fecund' as you mean it, I wasn't picking on the immigrants for that, I was going after US citizens who are in that condition- if they make low or no income, they receive benefits. Adding to the populatin while on government assistance and having no other means of support makes no sense AND it increases the taxpayer cost to support them. Then, there's the rampant shoplifting and other crimes that go along with poverty.

I hope you appreciate the life you have, unaffected by the bullshyte in large cities

Yes, it's paraphrasing, no matter how much you want to backpaddle. Regardless, why there are so many people with incomes too low to collect income tax from is tangential to my point. That being, US government expenditures are not excessively high. The deficit isn't so large because of high spending, it's large because of low overall taxation.

If you want to criticize Americans for being feckless and/or criminals, that's a separate topic from income taxes, government spending and deficits.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, it's paraphrasing, no matter how much you want to backpaddle. Regardless, why there are so many people with incomes too low to collect income tax from is tangential to my point. That being, US government expenditures are not excessively high. The deficit isn't so large because of high spending, it's large because of low overall taxation.

If you want to criticize Americans for being feckless and/or criminals, that's a separate topic from income taxes, government spending and deficits.

I don't think you have read the links to the wasteful spending paid for by the US, even though they have been posted several times.

It's not a large amount, to you- you're not footing the bills. Come to the US and go to some of the cities with bad school systems- you'll quickly find out why I'm so disappointed in people for squandering their opportunities.

While it's not a Federal issue, I have posted about the Milwaukee Public School budget at more than $1.5 Billion. That's for fewer than 76K students while the city's population is declining. Chronic truancy/dropout rate and poor results are the norm and when asked about dropping out, many students have said that there's nothing for them in school. I disagree and if you want, I can post questions & comments from Milwaukee residents, on NextDoor and other websites. I can't see allowing employees in public-facing jobs speaking/writing that way and it shows the lack of care about communicating clearly, without bastardizing the language.

To make matters worse WRT the MKE public school system, they have failed to meet several deadlines for financial reporting- last year, they lost $16.6 Million, this year, they're losing $42 Million. The system requested a referendum for $252 Million, but it was voted down.

Education, criminality, etc are all intertwined and government can't be separated from them although the US Department of Education being dismantled hands that back to the states, so we'll see how that changes.

What makes you think US spending isn't excessive?

 

[Trell]

What makes you think US spending isn't excessive?

Statistics when comparing to other advanced countries, for instance, or comparing the number of government employees today and 40 years ago (about the same number) while a much bigger population as another example. And so forth. Both @GO-NAD! as well others have posted statistics from credible sources.

 

[Trell]

Because it's only one part of the Federal budget- the deficit is $32+ Trillion- what other country spends so much more than revenue provides and why? Even Canada has a sizable deficit (that's shown in the link I posted, too), but it's nothing compared to what we have.

You're still confused about what federal deficit and national debt means, and that makes your multiple posts on this topic at best confusing. At least I've on occasion tried to correct you on this, but here we go again.

I've given these links below to treasury.gov to you before so try read them: They are intended for the general public.

Back to you your claim: There is no country on this planet that has a "deficit is $32+ Trillion" as that number refers to the national debt of USA, and for the fiscal year 2024 it's $35.46 T: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/

The US federal budget deficit is far less and is $1.83 T for the fiscal year 2024: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/

So the budget deficit is financed by issuing debt and that increases the national debt.

Got it?

 

[Trell]

If you want to criticize Americans for being feckless and/or criminals, that's a separate topic from income taxes, government spending and deficits.

He doesn’t understands what the terms of federal deficit and national debt means, so that thread will go down the drain like his gun thread when confronted with statistics from credible sources.

 

[mtrycrafts]

[

LMAO, how do you think so many of our Senators, Congressmen and women accumulate their wealth ? The 'profits' go well beyond their respective salaries !!!

Could it be that they write and sell books? Spouses keep on working. Saving and investments are part of their life?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Musk and Trump promised to cut 2 trillion "fraud, abuse and waste" dollars from the federal budget. How is that working out?

They overlooked the millions of wastes on parades, national guards, and chasing farm laborers and other easy targets in restaurants and construction.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I don't think you have read the links to the wasteful spending paid for by the US, even though they have been posted several times.

It's not a large amount, to you- you're not footing the bills. Come to the US and go to some of the cities with bad school systems- you'll quickly find out why I'm so disappointed in people for squandering their opportunities.

While it's not a Federal issue, I have posted about the Milwaukee Public School budget at more than $1.5 Billion. That's for fewer than 76K students while the city's population is declining. Chronic truancy/dropout rate and poor results are the norm and when asked about dropping out, many students have said that there's nothing for them in school. I disagree and if you want, I can post questions & comments from Milwaukee residents, on NextDoor and other websites. I can't see allowing employees in public-facing jobs speaking/writing that way and it shows the lack of care about communicating clearly, without bastardizing the language.

To make matters worse WRT the MKE public school system, they have failed to meet several deadlines for financial reporting- last year, they lost $16.6 Million, this year, they're losing $42 Million. The system requested a referendum for $252 Million, but it was voted down.

Education, criminality, etc are all intertwined and government can't be separated from them although the US Department of Education being dismantled hands that back to the states, so we'll see how that changes.

What makes you think US spending isn't excessive?

US federal government spending, as a percentage of GDP, is the lowest in the G7. That's why I think it isn't excessive.

Look, you can find examples of wasteful government spending everywhere on the planet. It's probably no more egregious in the US than in other developed countries. And, it happens in private enterprise, too. Part of the reason private American health care is so expensive is portion dedicated to administration - it's inefficient and wasteful.

If you want to flog that dead horse into oblivion, fill your boots, as we say around here. But, I don’t think there’s anything to be gained by insisting on trying to beat life into the poor nag...

 

[Dude#1279435]

Could it be that they write and sell books? Spouses keep on working. Saving and investments are part of their life?

Not all of them but insider trading.

 

[Dude#1279435]

US federal government spending, as a percentage of GDP, is the lowest in the G7. That's why I think it isn't excessive.

Look, you can find examples of wasteful government spending everywhere on the planet. It's probably no more egregious in the US than in other developed countries. And, it happens in private enterprise, too. Part of the reason private American health care is so expensive is portion dedicated to administration - it's inefficient and wasteful.

If you want to flog that dead horse into oblivion, fill your boots, as we say around here. But, I don’t think there’s anything to be gained by insisting on trying to beat life into the poor nag...

That's nice but it's still $36 trillion in debt. Why does it keep going up?

 

[GO-NAD!]

That's nice but it's still $36 trillion in debt. Why does it keep going up?

Because of the large annual budget deficits. Trump thinks he can magically eliminate the deficit, by lowering taxes on the rich and imposing import tariffs.

Oh, and screwing over the poor.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Because of the large annual budget deficits. Trump thinks he can magically eliminate the deficit, by lowering taxes on the rich and imposing import tariffs.

Oh, and screwing over the poor.

Trump- sounds about right, sadly. Not to mention if the gov't cuts will actually go to paying off the debt.....

$0-17,000
-$940

 

[Trell]

Trump- sounds about right, sadly. Not to mention if the gov't cuts will actually go to paying off the debt.....

$0-17,000
-$940

Start adding the effects of the Trump tariffs and it get's even worse for them.

 

[highfigh]

US federal government spending, as a percentage of GDP, is the lowest in the G7. That's why I think it isn't excessive.

Look, you can find examples of wasteful government spending everywhere on the planet. It's probably no more egregious in the US than in other developed countries. And, it happens in private enterprise, too. Part of the reason private American health care is so expensive is portion dedicated to administration - it's inefficient and wasteful.

If you want to flog that dead horse into oblivion, fill your boots, as we say around here. But, I don’t think there’s anything to be gained by insisting on trying to beat life into the poor nag...

OK, let's assume that the US government is actually efficient- that begs the question "Why are the other countries spending more per capita than the US?".

Why should one country spend as much as the others? Why would this be a requirement?

Look at all of the ways other countries do better than the US-

- Education- the US used to be at/near the top and now, it's ~number 28.
- Nutrition- too much food is unhealthy and people are addicted to it.
- Health care- you nailed that one and it's not lost on anyone who has had to deal with it. Another problem is the care, itself.
- Mental Health Care- it was gutted and now, it's very slow to improve. It exists, but it's far from adequate

From your arguments, it doesn't seem that you're digging very deeply into the wasteful spending by the US Federal government- Sen WIlliam Proxmire gave 'Golden Fleece Awards' for excessive/wasteful spending, starting in the late-'60s. Go deeper into some of the points I have made- I don't think you'll be as forgiving.

 

[Trell]

OK, let's assume that the US government is actually efficient- that begs the question "Why are the other countries spending more per capita than the US?".

Because we care about our inhabitants and wants them to live long and healthy in dignity?

Why should one country spend as much as the others? Why would this be a requirement?

It was never a requirement but quite simply a statistics as what other advanced countries are spending, and much more efficiently (cost as well as outcome) in sectors like health care in US. That sector needs a real DOGE.

Look at all of the ways other countries do better than the US-

- Education- the US used to be at/near the top and now, it's ~number 28.
- Nutrition- too much food is unhealthy and people are addicted to it.
- Health care- you nailed that one and it's not lost on anyone who has had to deal with it. Another problem is the care, itself.
- Mental Health Care- it was gutted and now, it's very slow to improve. It exists, but it's far from adequate

A normal person would experience at least some cognitive dissonance at this point.

From your arguments, it doesn't seem that you're digging very deeply into the wasteful spending by the US Federal government- Sen WIlliam Proxmire gave 'Golden Fleece Awards' for excessive/wasteful spending, starting in the late-'60s. Go deeper into some of the points I have made- I don't think you'll be as forgiving.

You still don't get it and just ignores all the statistics from credible sources given here, with no backing of your own statements.

Yeah, no cognitive dissonance detected at this point.

 

[Mikado463]

It was never a requirement but quite simply a statistics as what other advanced countries are spending, and much more efficiently (cost as well as outcome) in sectors like health care in US. That sector needs a real DOGE.
.

I think our whole Gov't needs a 'douche'