Trade Wars

[lovinthehd]

and what drove them to do that ?

Come on, we know you have your own pet reasons, display
em!

 

[lovinthehd]

Forgot to add the general big thing in the background, over population.....

 

[Trell]

Is this what's coming for USA? Some pictures from Soviet Union.

Inside a Soviet Grocery Store in 1990

There wasn't all that much to buy.

dustyoldthing.com

 

[highfigh]

I would suggest that the problem didn't start with "people raising idiots who want shiny trinkets at the lowest cost and being insatiable". It started with western manufacturers exporting these jobs to low wage/cost countries in an effort to boost returns.

And without incredible demand, there would be no reason to be able to make more, more, more. It's more about meeting competition than just boosting returns. Japan has been kicking our ass for more than 60 years and in the '60s, US automakers had chances to become more efficient and make better products, but they declined. Japan listened and in a short time, they were selling a lot of cars that were higher in quality than what the Big Three could make. Look at UAW wages over the decades- there's no way to make affordable vehicles with so many factory workers making $100K or more.

Don't get me wrong- profit was behind it, but massive profit wouldn't be possible if the goods were made in the Good Ol' US of A.

 

[highfigh]

Don't forget Wall Street's insatiable demand for quarterly profits.

On the other hand the cheap consumer goods lifted the living standards of lower income citizens (aka the Walmart crowd) while their wages did not keep up with the cost of living courtesy again of Wall Street's profit demands.

And how is your portfolio doing?

 

[Trell]

Look at UAW wages over the decades- there's no way to make affordable vehicles with so many factory workers making $100K or more.

You mean manufacturing engineers? Or someone sweeping the floors?

 

[Trell]

And how is your portfolio doing?

What's the size of your contributions to your 401K, if you have one?

The average 401K is quite low and with median far lower. Very many Americans needs SS and it has greatly improved elderly poverty. Below from August 2024:

The Average 401(k) Balance by Age

How much money people have put away for retirement naturally varies by age. See how your savings stack up.

www.investopedia.com

And some median size 401K (May 2024):

>>>
20s

• Median: $6,700
• Average: $17,700

30s

• Median: $22,100
• Average: $56,200

40s

• Median: $41,600
• Average: $124,400

50s

• Median: $64,300
• Average: $212,400

<<<

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/30/fidelity-average-median-401k-balances-in-us.html

 

[Mikado463]

Come on, we know you have your own pet reasons, display
em!

no need, you answered them in post #417 !

 

[Trell]

I would suggest that the problem didn't start with "people raising idiots who want shiny trinkets at the lowest cost and being insatiable". It started with western manufacturers exporting these jobs to low wage/cost countries in an effort to boost returns.

Then in US there have been several decades of stagnating or declining real wages, even though productivity increased greatly over the same time span.

 

[Mikado463]

, even though productivity increased greatly over the same time span.

it's called automation and technological advancements ........

 

[GO-NAD!]

And without incredible demand, there would be no reason to be able to make more, more, more. It's more about meeting competition than just boosting returns. Japan has been kicking our ass for more than 60 years and in the '60s, US automakers had chances to become more efficient and make better products, but they declined. Japan listened and in a short time, they were selling a lot of cars that were higher in quality than what the Big Three could make. Look at UAW wages over the decades- there's no way to make affordable vehicles with so many factory workers making $100K or more.

$100K? As an auto worker? Those would be rare and include significant overtime.

Don't get me wrong- profit was behind it, but massive profit wouldn't be possible if the goods were made in the Good Ol' US of A.

So, we actually agree on this point.

There is a whole hockey sock full of reasons for the offshoring of manufacturing - not just from America, but western countries in general - and labour cost is just one of them. There may be a case to be made about unfair trade practices on the part of China, but declaring a trade war against similar western countries that are experiencing similar job offshoring makes no sense at all.

 

[Trell]

it's called automation and technological advancements ........

In Sweden, for instance, the employees got a good chunk of that in real wage increases. The stock market did very well on top of that.

There is also a social security net to catch those who loose jobs due to this and guide them to new jobs.

 

[Mikado463]

In Sweden, for instance, the employees got a good chunk of that in real wage increases. The stock market did very well on top of that.

There is also a social security net to catch those who loose jobs due to this and guide them to new jobs.

Good to hear, hope we will have a mass exodus to Sweden then. Should free up the roads for easier travel over here

 

[Trell]

Good to hear, hope we will have a mass exodus to Sweden then. Should free up the roads for easier travel over here

Heh, but EU is trying to convince US based researchers to migrate here. With some success, as I recall.

 

[mtrycrafts]

and what drove them to do that ?

Is making more $$$ not a reason enough? Stock owners don't want their stocks to increase in value?

 

[mtrycrafts]

What I was referring to with short-term thinking.

Well, not all of us are mind readers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

And how is your portfolio doing?

Not well right now and may take years to recover.
Or, my expiration date will come and won't have to worry anymore.

 

[Mikado463]

Not well right now and may take years to recover.
Or, my expiration date will come and won't have to worry anymore.

over balanced in risky equities ? if you are like me(70's) that is a concern, for the simple fact that 'recovery' is time lost for growth. Young folks can and should look at it differently

 

[mtrycrafts]

over balanced in risky equities ? if you are like me(70's) that is a concern, for the simple fact that 'recovery' is time lost for growth. Young folks can and should look at it differently

Yup, like you in age. Mutual funds and individual stocks like Nvidia that increased a whole bunch. Should have stayed with Netflix as well. Hard to predict what will take off, like video streaming.
At least my youngest son has picked up some good life points from me. Oldest, let's not mention that.

 

[dlaloum]

And without incredible demand, there would be no reason to be able to make more, more, more. It's more about meeting competition than just boosting returns. Japan has been kicking our ass for more than 60 years and in the '60s, US automakers had chances to become more efficient and make better products, but they declined. Japan listened and in a short time, they were selling a lot of cars that were higher in quality than what the Big Three could make. Look at UAW wages over the decades- there's no way to make affordable vehicles with so many factory workers making $100K or more.

Don't get me wrong- profit was behind it, but massive profit wouldn't be possible if the goods were made in the Good Ol' US of A.

The techniques to both improve quality and reduce costs were developed in the USA - look up Deming...
US manufacturers weren't interested... he took his work to Japan, and the car companies there, adopted it in full...
Within a few years, their quality went up dramatically, AND their costs went down.

The methods travelled to Europe, to Korea, and only started taking hold in the USA, in the 1990's....

Look at European factory workers, their wages aren't that far off from US worker wages, the cost of labour is not the only ingredient in the mix - and China is not the only point of comparison.