Trade Wars

[dlaloum]

As a practical matter it would be almost impossible.

I find myself wondering if the administration doesn’t really care because they just want to say they caused more production in the U.S. even if it’s based on inaccurate data.

On the other hand, your hypothesis (the administration is clueless) is consistent with all available evidence (sardonic humor alert).

Well they are destroying the mechanisms of feedback/reporting internally, and externally are working on gaining control of the media (including indirect self-censorship) ....

So Trump will declare whatever he wants, and that will then be reported as "reality"

Actual data will end up being collected/collated/analysed by international organisations and media.... USA people's will need to start reading/listening more to worldwide sources to work out what is really going on in the USA.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well they are destroying the mechanisms of feedback/reporting internally, and externally are working on gaining control of the media (including indirect self-censorship) ....

So Trump will declare whatever he wants, and that will then be reported as "reality"

Actual data will end up being collected/collated/analysed by international organisations and media.... USA people's will need to start reading/listening more to worldwide sources to work out what is really going on in the USA.

This reporting as "reality" is well reinforced by your fellow Aussies, the Murdochs via Faux News for years now (at least I seem to remember you're down under?). Many of my republican acquaintances are just fine with sticking with Faux news....

 

[Dude#1279435]

As a practical matter it would be almost impossible.

I find myself wondering if the administration doesn’t really care because they just want to say they caused more production in the U.S. even if it’s based on inaccurate data.

On the other hand, your hypothesis (the administration is clueless) is consistent with all available evidence (sardonic humor alert).

I just watched Trump say this with the press. There will be an American boom in the economy (ie car production), and we don't need Canadian goods.

 

[dlaloum]

This reporting as "reality" is well reinforced by your fellow Aussies, the Murdochs via Faux News for years now (at least I seem to remember you're down under?). Many of my republican acquaintances are just fine with sticking with Faux news....

Sadly they still have the "mother branch" of Faux news down under.... and they're pumping out their rubbish with an election coming up.
Hoping we don't end up with our own Trump Jr and his sideckick ...

 

[Eppie]

This is a good example (image taken from https://forests.org/so-how-much-forest-is-there-in-the-us-and-canada/). Trump says the U.S. does not need Canadian lumber. I beg to differ. Construction lumber comes from coniferous forests. In addition, those trees grow more slowly in Canada due to the northern climate. That makes the growth rings form closer together making the wood stronger. American builders prefer Canadian lumber for a good reason. It's a better product and chanting MAGA won't change how the trees grow.

Trump says that he will promote wood harvesting in the U.S. Where is most of that wood? It's in your national parks! He's already dismantling the EPA and forestry service. It's only a matter of time before the feds issue permits for remote regions in your national forests, and mining permits won't be far behind. There are plenty of documentaries about mining companies wanting to go after ore in environmentally sensitive areas.

I've seen documentaries about the previous century when politicians realized the importance of having these fabulous wilderness areas available to the public and how the national parks were established. Once you permit clear-cutting and mining in these regions, the damage will be done. Canadians have had their share of protests to protect similar regions with a fair bit of success. I wonder if we'll see the same thing transpire in the U.S. in the near future.

 

[Mr._Clark]

It looks like stocks are heading even lower.

>>>NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump’s “Liberation Day” is fast approaching, and stock markets from Wall Street to Wellington, New Zealand, are falling Monday in advance of it.

In New York, the S&P 500 was down 0.8% following one of its worst losses of the past couple of years on Friday. It’s on track to finish the first three months of the year with a loss of 5.9%, which could make this its worst quarter in nearly three years.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was down 111 points, or 0.3%, as of 10:10 a.m. Eastern time, and the Nasdaq composite was 1.7% lower.<<<

Stock markets fall worldwide as Trump's 'Liberation Day' approaches

President Donald Trump’s “Liberation Day” is fast approaching, and stock markets around the world are falling in advance of it.

apnews.com

As of March 10, 2025, the S&P 500 alone lost $4 trillion from the peak in February.

>>>NEW YORK, March 10 (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s tariffs have spooked investors, with fears of an economic downturn driving a stock market sell-off that has wiped out $4 trillion from the S&P 500’s peak last month, when Wall Street was cheering much of Trump's agenda.<<<

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/investors-flee-equities-trump-driven-uncertainty-sparks-economic-worry-2025-03-10/

US investors own about 60% of the stocks in U.S. companies, which means those in the U.S. lost about $2.4 trillion on the S&P alone.

As far as I can tell, this far exceeds any amount the DOGE crew might be able to save. Musk said $2 trillion per year, but this is clearly not possible here in the real world:

>>>"It is completely impossible for DOGE to save $2 trillion," Jessica Riedl, an economist and senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative-leaning think tank, recently told CBS. "Two-thirds of the $7 trillion federal budget goes to Social Security, Medicare, defense, veterans and interest on the debt — all of which has been taken off the table by President Trump. Saving $2 trillion would require eliminating nearly every remaining federal program.”

Riedl added: “DOGE has no legal or constitutional authority to cut this spending; Congress must pass a law.”<<<

Elon Musk and DOGE promised up to $2 trillion in government savings. How much have they actually saved so far?

DOGE claims $115 billion in savings over the first seven weeks — but its own ‘wall of receipts’ shows just $35 billion.

www.yahoo.com

It's hard to see how people will come out ahead financially under Trump.

 

[mtrycrafts]

It looks like stocks are heading even lower.

>>>NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump’s “Liberation Day” is fast approaching, and stock markets from Wall Street to Wellington, New Zealand, are falling Monday in advance of it.

.... Musk said $2 trillion per year, but this is clearly not possible here in the real world:

...

It's hard to see how people will come out ahead financially under Trump.

"Liberation Day" equals liberating me from my savings.

Musk lives in a fantasy world, not reality.

 

[Mr._Clark]

"Liberation Day" equals liberating me from my savings.

Musk lives in a fantasy world, not reality.

As a wag once said “Our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is over!”

 

[3db]

Experts are predicting there is a 35% chance that Trumps insipid paranoid policies will cause a global recession.

 

[dlaloum]

It looks like stocks are heading even lower.

>>>NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump’s “Liberation Day” is fast approaching, and stock markets from Wall Street to Wellington, New Zealand, are falling Monday in advance of it.

In New York, the S&P 500 was down 0.8% following one of its worst losses of the past couple of years on Friday. It’s on track to finish the first three months of the year with a loss of 5.9%, which could make this its worst quarter in nearly three years.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was down 111 points, or 0.3%, as of 10:10 a.m. Eastern time, and the Nasdaq composite was 1.7% lower.<<<

Stock markets fall worldwide as Trump's 'Liberation Day' approaches

President Donald Trump’s “Liberation Day” is fast approaching, and stock markets around the world are falling in advance of it.

apnews.com

As of March 10, 2025, the S&P 500 alone lost $4 trillion from the peak in February.

>>>NEW YORK, March 10 (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s tariffs have spooked investors, with fears of an economic downturn driving a stock market sell-off that has wiped out $4 trillion from the S&P 500’s peak last month, when Wall Street was cheering much of Trump's agenda.<<<

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/investors-flee-equities-trump-driven-uncertainty-sparks-economic-worry-2025-03-10/

US investors own about 60% of the stocks in U.S. companies, which means those in the U.S. lost about $2.4 trillion on the S&P alone.

As far as I can tell, this far exceeds any amount the DOGE crew might be able to save. Musk said $2 trillion per year, but this is clearly not possible here in the real world:

View attachment 73009
>>>"It is completely impossible for DOGE to save $2 trillion," Jessica Riedl, an economist and senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative-leaning think tank, recently told CBS. "Two-thirds of the $7 trillion federal budget goes to Social Security, Medicare, defense, veterans and interest on the debt — all of which has been taken off the table by President Trump. Saving $2 trillion would require eliminating nearly every remaining federal program.”

Riedl added: “DOGE has no legal or constitutional authority to cut this spending; Congress must pass a law.”<<<

Elon Musk and DOGE promised up to $2 trillion in government savings. How much have they actually saved so far?

DOGE claims $115 billion in savings over the first seven weeks — but its own ‘wall of receipts’ shows just $35 billion.

www.yahoo.com

It's hard to see how people will come out ahead financially under Trump.

This is just the start.... it will get a lot worse.

The people Trump cares about, his fellow Oligarchs, will come out just fine... It's just the hoy polloy that will suffer, and his aristocratic majesty doesn't care about those.... (are they even people?)

If his highness succeeds with his changes, then voters will become redundant (or simply ineffective, same thing)....

It is only incompetent, if you think about it in societal value terms.... but if the objective is to completely eradicate the current system and introduce a new authoritarian one, then it appears to be quite well planned and executed so far. It is a revolution - so the dramatic harm to people, industry, social commons etc... are exactly what you would expect.

Unless the US Citizenry get themselves organised as counter-revolutionaries.... rather than trying to deal with this using "normal" processes.... they will get steamrolled.

And the installation of key individuals in positions of control within the Military, has a definite purpose.... they are expecting, and planning for a counter-revolution.
It was far from bloodless in the 1920's during the great depression - when the famous generals of WWI & WWII led troops against peaceful protesters, I don't expect it will be any less so this time - and the longer it takes for the counter-revolution to get going, the more entrenched the Trumpists will be in Military and Police institutions... and the more bloody the result will be.

Needless to say, the markets will take a massive beating along the way.... the drop has merely started.

 

[Mr._Clark]

This is just the start.... it will get a lot worse.

The people Trump cares about, his fellow Oligarchs, will come out just fine... It's just the hoy polloy that will suffer, and his aristocratic majesty doesn't care about those.... (are they even people?)

If his highness succeeds with his changes, then voters will become redundant (or simply ineffective, same thing)....

It is only incompetent, if you think about it in societal value terms.... but if the objective is to completely eradicate the current system and introduce a new authoritarian one, then it appears to be quite well planned and executed so far. It is a revolution - so the dramatic harm to people, industry, social commons etc... are exactly what you would expect.

Unless the US Citizenry get themselves organised as counter-revolutionaries.... rather than trying to deal with this using "normal" processes.... they will get steamrolled.

And the installation of key individuals in positions of control within the Military, has a definite purpose.... they are expecting, and planning for a counter-revolution.
It was far from bloodless in the 1920's during the great depression - when the famous generals of WWI & WWII led troops against peaceful protesters, I don't expect it will be any less so this time - and the longer it takes for the counter-revolution to get going, the more entrenched the Trumpists will be in Military and Police institutions... and the more bloody the result will be.

Needless to say, the markets will take a massive beating along the way.... the drop has merely started.

A major problem (in my opinion) is that congress gave the president almost unlimited power to set tariffs.

>>>The U.S. Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate foreign commerce, impose import tariffs, and raise revenue.1 Congress, in turn, has enacted laws giving the President the authority to impose tariffs under certain conditions. Federal courts, for their part, have decided legal challenges to the constitutionality of these laws and to the ways in which the President has utilized them.<<< (emphasis added)

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R48435

I disagree with the administration's approach to tariffs for numerous reasons, but I have yet to see a serious legal issue.