towers with the loudest bass under 900$

[Joe Schmoe]

Actually, it would be 2.2

Get it

We don't even know if the OP using an AV receiver. OP stated not using a sub. Your idea is using two.

Correct. The built-in subs are supercubes, with the same fantastic performance as the stand-alone supercubes.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is just no way a speaker with a 8" woofer is going to produce louder bass than a speaker with a 15" woofer. And as far as specs go, this comes straight from the DT website:
Freq. Response: 17 Hz – 30 kHz
Nominal Impedance: Compatible with 8 ohms
Rec. Assoc. Amp.: 20 – 250 Watts/channel
Driver Complement:
– Two 4-1/2" high definition cast-magnesium basket polymer upper bass/midrange drivers.
– Two 1" pure aluminum dome tweeters with silk surrounds.
– One 8" long-throw subwoofer coupled to two 8" infrasonic radiators.
Efficiency: 92 dB


Now lets look at this.
1) The frequency response is listed the same way as CV. My guess is +/-6dB.
2) There is no way a 8" woofer is going to produce a usable 17Hz.
3) The mids are defined as "high definition." Does this mean they work well with BR players, or they work well with HDTV?
4) They are also defined as bass drivers.
5) I have a hard time believing a 8" woofer will produce a usable 17Hz. I don't have a hard time believing a 15" woofer will produce a usable 26Hz.

1) Your GUESS is that it is +/-6dB? Your GUESS? My guess is that it is the OVERALL frequency response! This could be +/-30dB or +/-50dB unless they ACTUALLY SAY otherwise WITHOUT GUESSING! DefTech has the same issues on their website, which lists the OVERALL F.R. You have to contact them and get the actual anechoic chamber F.R., which sucks.

2) Okay, Zumbo, you cannot compare a POWERED SUBWOOFER with GAIN CONTROL to a PASSIVE Woofer!!!

Zumbo, you do know the difference between a "woofer" and a "SUBwoofer", don't you? Please tell me you do!!! A SUBwoofer goes LOWER than a woofer, hence the word SUB!

Let me give you another example. Take the NHT Classic Four tower speaker. It actually comes with a 10" SUBwoofer, not just a woofer. BUT, unless you ADD an Amplifier to this SUBwoofer (mono block amp, etc.), it is only a Passive SUBwoofer. If you look at the actual frequency response, it is about 40Hz-20kHz WITHOUT the ADDITIONAL power amp driving the SUBwoofer. But, when you add the additional monoblock amp to make the SUBwoofer a POWERED SUBwoofer, the frequency response is now 27Hz-20kHz.

3) "High Definition" means that they are made of high quality material and standards.

4) The "Midrange/Upper Bass Driver" means that the driver is capable of producing the Midrange and Upper Bass Frequencies.

5) The frequency listed on the Def Tech website is the "overall" frequency response, which I admit is ridiculous. DefTech needs to get with the program and post the +/-3dB on & off-axis response along with the graphs. The Acutual anechoic chamber of the BP7006 is 29Hz-20kHz +/-3dB @ 90dB w/m, with the microphone @ 1 meter away from the SUBwoofer driver.

DefTech says the BP10Bs have an anechoic chamber response of 30Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, but Julian Hirsch/Stereo Reivew measured 25Hz-20kHz +/-3dB and 20Hz-20kHz +/-6dB.

Anyway, so what kind of speakers and system are you using now?

Hey, Zumbo, sorry if I'm making you mad.

Peace, man!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Actually, it would be 2.2

Get it

We don't even know if the OP using an AV receiver. OP stated not using a sub. Your idea is using two.

Zumbo, unless you are actually hooking the LFE to the Subwoofer Input of the BP7006, it is only a 2.0 system.

For example, I hook the LFEs to both my BP7000SCs' Subwoofer inputs, but I did not hook my BP7001SCs' Subwoofer input. So the BP7000SCs are 2.2, but the BP7001SCs are only 2.0 since I did not hook up the Subwoofer input.

So if you hook up the BP7006 using just the speaker wires and do not use the Subwoofer Inputs, then the BP7006s would only be 2.0. However, the SUBwoofer is still ACTIVE and IN USE!!!

Okay, it's like this. The SUBwoofer driver is just an EXTENSION of the total package. It just gives the speaker a FULL-RANGE capacity.

The same thing with the $9,000 Linwitz Orion, $16,000 BeoLab 5, or $40,000 Linn Komri speakers with built-in powered subwoofers. The powered Subwoofer section is just another driver. It is not a SEPARATE thing.

This is the reason I love my DefTech speakers! When listening to 2.0 CD Stereo Music, I can use "PURE DIRECT" & "Source Direct" modes with ABSOLUTELY NO BASS MANAGEMENT -- NO LFE or SUBWOOFER OUTPUT.

So in this case even my BP7000SCs are only 2.0, since there is NO Subwoofer output whatsover.

Is that confusing?

I don't blame you if that sounds confusing.

 

[GlocksRock]

Zumbo, unless you are actually hooking the LFE to the Subwoofer Input of the BP7006, it is only a 2.0 system.

Unless he has a receiver that allows hit to set LFE to front instead of sub, then the lfe input would not need to be used, and it could still be a 2.2 setup.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Unless he has a receiver that allows hit to set LFE to front instead of sub, then the lfe input would not need to be used, and it could still be a 2.2 setup.

Well, the "Point Two" or ".2" means that it is coming from the LFE/Subwoofer Channel.

Remember, in a 5.1/7.1 system, the ".1" is a Dedicated, Discrete LFE channel.

So if the LFE/Subwoofer Inputs of the BP7006s are not connected or in Active Use, it is a FULL-RANGE 2.0 sytem. The Powered Subwoofers are very much Active and In Use as a Whole system, but the actual Discrete LFE Channel is not sending any signal to the speaker.

In other words, when you play a DVD that is only 2.0, there is no LFE channel. The subwoofer driver will still play the low frequency to give the speaker the full-range, but there is no LFE Channel.

 

[GlocksRock]

Right, but if he is watching a movie that has a .1 channel and he isn't using the lfe input, he can still get the .1 channel sent to the towers by setting the receivers lfe channel to front. But obviously if there is no .1 channel on anything he is listening to, then there won't be any lfe channel playing.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Well, the "Point Two" or ".2" means that it is coming from the LFE/Subwoofer Channel.

Remember, in a 5.1/7.1 system, the ".1" is a Dedicated, Discrete LFE channel.

So if the LFE/Subwoofer Inputs of the BP7006s are not connected or in Active Use, it is a FULL-RANGE 2.0 sytem. The Powered Subwoofers are very much Active and In Use as a Whole system, but the actual Discrete LFE Channel is not sending any signal to the speaker.

In other words, when you play a DVD that is only 2.0, there is no LFE channel. The subwoofer driver will still play the low frequency to give the speaker the full-range, but there is no LFE Channel.

Everything you are saying remains true regardless of whether the subs are built in to the towers or in separate enclosures. Two subs are two subs, their location is irrelevant.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Right, but if he is watching a movie that has a .1 channel and he isn't using the lfe input, he can still get the .1 channel sent to the towers by setting the receivers lfe channel to front. But obviously if there is no .1 channel on anything he is listening to, then there won't be any lfe channel playing.

Gotcha.

So if the program is in 2.1/3.1/4.1/5.1/6.1/7.1, etc., you can still get the ".1" if you set the subwoofer to "NONE" and set the Front L + R speakers to "Large".

If if the program is only 2.0/3.0/4.0, etc., the speaker can still play full range 2.0/3.0/4.0, etc.

No wonder so many people are so confused.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Everything you are saying remains true regardless of whether the subs are built in to the towers or in separate enclosures. Two subs are two subs, their location is irrelevant.

True, but having separate subs means separate Linkwitz-Riley Crossovers with Zobel Networks. When the sub is part of the "whole" system, they are using just one Linkwitz-Riley Crossover and Zobel Network. It's one whole system using one network/crossover, instead of two separate systems. Theoretically, this provides better integration of the total overall sound spectrum with less peaks and valleys in the frequency response.

 

[darien87]

Kinda funny how this turned into such a pissing match, when the thread was just started by some college kid that just wanted to rock sorority girls out of their hip-huggers.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Zumbo, you do know the difference between a "woofer" and a "SUBwoofer", don't you? Please tell me you do!!! A SUBwoofer goes LOWER than a woofer, hence the word SUB!

Semantics, really.

A woofer is the low-frequency driver in a multi-driver configuration.

A subwoofer is a dedicated stand-alone low-frequency driver.

There are many multi-driver speakers out there with woofers capable of low frequency responses rivaling many subwoofers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Kinda funny how this turned into such a pissing match, when the thread was just started by some college kid that just wanted to rock sorority girls out of their hip-huggers.

What?

You want us to just agree on everything?

How boring would that be?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There are many multi-driver speakers out there with woofers capable of low frequency responses rivaling many subwoofers.

You are talking about PASSIVE woofers against POWERED SUBwoofers?

Okay, please name me one speaker with PASSIVE woofers that can go down to 20-28 Hz +/-3dB as confirmed by 3rd Party measurements like Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, Sound & Vision, or Audioholics.

Home Theater Magazine on the BP7000SC: 22 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB.

Sound & Vision on the BP7001SC & CLR3000: 27 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB, 28 Hz- 20 kHz +/-3dB, respectively.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Okay, please name me one speaker with PASSIVE woofers that can go down to 20-28 Hz +/-3dB as confirmed by 3rd Party measurements like Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, Sound & Vision, or Audioholics.

http://www.definitivetech.com/reviews/reviews_PDFs/BP10_SR291.pdf

 

[GlocksRock]

Gotcha.

So if the program is in 2.1/3.1/4.1/5.1/6.1/7.1, etc., you can still get the ".1" if you set the subwoofer to "NONE" and set the Front L + R speakers to "Large".

On my receiver if the front speakers are set to larger, you can set the LFE channel to Front, Sub, or Both.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

You are talking about PASSIVE woofers against POWERED SUBwoofers?

Okay, please name me one speaker with PASSIVE woofers that can go down to 20-28 Hz +/-3dB as confirmed by 3rd Party measurements like Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, Sound & Vision, or Audioholics.

To me a passive woofer, or passive radiator, is one that takes the backwash from the other drivers to create the bass. That's not a typical woofer.

There were many classic 70s 3 and 4-way speakers that had FRs down to 25hz and lower. (And none of those magazines, except maybe Stereophile existed 3o years ago.)

And you show me how many subwoofers actually get down to 20hz.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

http://www.definitivetech.com/reviews/reviews_PDFs/BP10_SR291.pdf

Joe, I cannot believe you just did that!

I meant OTHER than Def Techs!!!

Of course, according to Def Tech, the Anechoic Chamber Response of the BP10B is 30 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB. The BP8B is 35 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB, and Julian Hirsch measured 30 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB. I see a pattern of 5 Hz lower than the anechoic chamber response.

The Anechoic Response of the BP7006 is 29 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB.

So if Julian Hirsch/Stereo Review had reviewed the BP7006, it could have been 24 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And you show me how many subwoofers actually get down to 20hz.

Here:

http://home.comcast.net/~frank_carter/Nousaine.htm

That's a lot of subwoofers going to 20 Hz.

 

[Midcow2]

Action going on on eBay now for Def Tech 7002 towers.

There is an action going on now on eBay. The Defintive Technology 7002 towers have ver good bass, I know I have a pair.

http://search.ebay.com/definitive-Technology-tower-speakers_W0QQdfspZ1QQfromZR40QQssPageNameZRC0021QQ_trksidZp1638Q2em120


They retail new for $2400 and the auction price is currently at $155.

Good Luck, if you can get them fro $900 or less you have a bargain and you will have both "lod" and "good" Bass.

They have separate LFE input as well as a built in 300 watt 12' woofer in each tower.

Good Bidding

 

[zumbo]

3) "High Definition" means that they are made of high quality material and standards.

You sure it doesn't mean I can send an HD signal to them? BS marketing.

4) The "Midrange/Upper Bass Driver" means that the driver is capable of producing the Midrange and Upper Bass Frequencies.

A 4 1/2 inch mid is capable of producing bass. Only Bose can make a 4 1/2 driver that can produce bass.

5) The frequency listed on the Def Tech website is the "overall" frequency response, which I admit is ridiculous.

Nooooooo!

Anyway, so what kind of speakers and system are you using now?

Samsung!

Hey, Zumbo, sorry if I'm making you mad.

Peace, man!

Now, you know I'm not mad. I'm not the one with 8" subs.