Towers vs. Bookshelf and/or Sub

[shadyJ]

Sure wish Santa would have dropped off a ULS15 for me to compare alongside the SB13U and XS30 I have on hand. One of the reason I decided on the XS30 was reading the accounts of another member who in fact had all three in home and in the end he returned the ULS15....because it was the less musical of the 3...he preferred it for movies not so much for music...you just never know!

That dr russel guy did not do a real comparison. You can not rely on aural memory spaced days or weeks apart. You also have to level match the subs- at the very least. Brian Ding has even told me that in a qualitative comparison equalization should be turned off. Russel's comparison is worthless. I wish someone would do a real level matched, blind qualitative comparison in one of these get togethers.

 

[ImcLoud]

Sure wish Santa would have dropped off a ULS15 for me to compare alongside the SB13U and XS30 I have on hand. One of the reason I decided on the XS30 was reading the accounts of another member who in fact had all three in home and in the end he returned the ULS15....because it was the less musical of the 3...he preferred it for movies not so much for music...you just never know!

My cousin has 2 xs30's and loves them, I think dual uls 15s would sound better in his room, the xs30's how he has them setup just don't do it for me, with movies its ok, but when he plays music, I think my sb12s sound better...
Keep in mind we are talking about small subtle differences and preferences, because once you pass a certain point, it all sounds good... Like I have said a bunch of times, most of the subs from the well known id companies will make the purchaser happy. If you have the means to find the one you like best then by all means do so, its your preference. Use what others say as a guideline but keep in mind its your ears and your money that has to be happy.. For all you know the member who compared them already had a preconceived notion that the heavier sub was a better value, or I can be biased towards HSU because I like my vtf2's so much {even though I own subs from a lot of builders and just bought 2 svs's a couple months back}...

 

[cschang]

Very interesting ImcLoud...probably the first account I have read of someone preferring the ULS-15's sound over a F15.

incidentally, we had three subs we were comparing, the third was a JL Audio F112.

That said, the Hsu and the JL both had nicer enclosures/fit than the F15.

 

[cschang]

My cousin has 2 xs30's and loves them, I think dual uls 15s would sound better in his room, the xs30's how he has them setup just don't do it for me, with movies its ok, but when he plays music, I think my sb12s sound better...
Keep in mind we are talking about small subtle differences and preferences, because once you pass a certain point, it all sounds good... Like I have said a bunch of times, most of the subs from the well known id companies will make the purchaser happy. If you have the means to find the one you like best then by all means do so, its your preference. Use what others say as a guideline but keep in mind its your ears and your money that has to be happy.. For all you know the member who compared them already had a preconceived notion that the heavier sub was a better value, or I can be biased towards HSU because I like my vtf2's so much {even though I own subs from a lot of builders and just bought 2 svs's a couple months back}...

I think the Hsu VTF-2/STF-2, at its price point, is VERY tough to beat.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Sorry, but to Stop thread hijack about which sub is best for music, Going back to OP's original question:

Does anyone here thinks that Tower w/sub sound better that Bookshelf speaker with a sub? (granted both option properly installed)

 

[cschang]

Sorry, but to Stop thread hijack about this sub is best for music, Going back to OP's original question:

Does anyone here thinks that Tower w/sub sound better that Bookshelf speaker with a sub? (granted both option properly installed)

At the same price point? My general opinion would be the bookshelf/sub would be a better value.

 

[ImcLoud]

As you may have noticed I am a jerk when it comes to trying different systems, watching me figure out placement will make you sick... and I have a 12 x10 room full of speakers that have been setup and then replaced, my bookshelf collection contains 16 pairs of bookshelfs I put back in their boxes, not counting the 8 sets I have hooked up presently between my house and the office....

SO back to the OP...

I hooked my entire system in, the dual subs {wharfedale sw's}, the dac {at the time is was the xda1 since swapped out for the 2}, crossovers {around 90hz}, amp {xpa2}, and hooked in my source {laptop}.
I have a set of evo2-40s and a set of evo2-10's pretty much the same speakers except one is a tower the other is a bookshelf {I also tried 4 other sets of bookshelfs at the same time, this testing took me 5 hours of listening, some may remember my shoulder surgery and having a lot of free time on my hands, coupled with a mild depression from watching my years of weight training being soaked from my arm day after day and the constant searing pain from having a 30lb arm hanging from my severely damaged posterior, anterior, and lateral deltoid fibers}.
ANYWAY... I was very curios as to how the 10's compared to the 40's SO I tired this every which way, I played the 40's full range and crossed as I did the 10's, the 08's and a few others {including my tads that were new at the time}...

The results were........ The 40's sounded better full range, the 10's sounded better with the subs, so its pretty simple if you have access to subs, use them with bookshelfs {especially if you like bass heavy music}, I left the evo2-40s in that room for the simple reason they look better, lol and I wanted towers in there, I will sometimes shut the subs and run the mfull range, but I love how the subs sound, its a shame them subs don't get the attention they deserve they sound wonderful, not a ton of output for movies but a very nice sounding sub {I own 4 of them, lol}, they aren't popular in the US and probably because they were seling for $2100 each, which is silly... But fit and finish is first rate, sound is great, super fast, accurate, just really nice subs...

So in closing, the bookshelfs sound better with mids and highs, and the subs sound better with the lows, you put them together and you get a better experience...

here's a pic I took way back then I snapped when trying them out, the evo8s are on the stands the 10s are on the subs and the 40s are obviously the towers... The wharfedales are an overlooked powerhouse in the US, they can be costly but I have never seen a bad product from them, even their entry level diamonds surpass about everything you can hear in Best buy and aren't very expensive, very warm sounding lineups...

heres a pic of some testing I was doing when moving the jade 5's around before I bought the sb12's in paino

I ended up with the csb1 and sb12's in that room and moved the jade 5's and wd subs to another spot in the house...

I have had "serious" audio "guys" listen to the sb12 csb1 setup and the EVERYONE is surprised by the sound stage and quality this cheap system produces, for a couple thousand bucks, a pre, dual mono blocks, subs, and bookshelfs that sound better than towers costing $10K... Granted the csb1's aren't the end all to all speakers, but for the price they are amazing, and when setup correctly they do a few things very very well, I like all the music I have played through them to date, and I have gotten pm's from 5 different people saying they bought them after reading that me and J liked them and were very very happy with them....

But thats it, I haven't really bought a tower since I tried figured this out, and the only towers I currently have hooked up are the 40's and the lores, all of my other systems are built around bookshelfs.... I'll probably never buy a tower again and I have a long list of books I want, philharmonitors, WOW1's, Seirra 2's, PSB inis, PSB imagine b's, Synchrony B Ones, mmg's, ls50's, Aon's ect.... Now I could never own all of them speakers in towers, I would need another house to fit them all in, and they would be a pain to change out...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would go with each Bookshelf (B) on a wood stand atop a Sub (S), but no Dog (D).

So 2B + 2S - D =

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After reading a couple of recommendation threads I've noticed a trend of people recommending bookshelf speakers to individuals using subs in their system. This has got me thinking as I always assumed tower speakers were the way to go if budget permitted.

What do you think? Does it make sense to use towers if your system will also include a sub? I've also read here that whether you will primarily listen to music or use the speakers for HT it always makes sense to add a sub. Does that mean towers never make sense?

Interested in everyone's thoughts.

My opinion is that it depends on how much money you have and how much space you have.

Assuming all equal and high quality components with limited space and budget, I would rather have more subs and less towers than have less subs and more towers.

However, there is no "right" or "wrong", but only personal preferences.

For me, there is more than one factor when buying speakers. And one of these factors is aesthetic.

 

[ImcLoud]

I would go with each Bookshelf (B) on a wood stand atop a Sub (S), but no Dog (D).

So 2B + 2S - D =

LOL, I only had that B on top of the S for the picture. And the D is the best part...

Also for the op, I prefer music wit a lot of bass {not obnoxious amounts but strong low end} and I find that in my house most of my rooms are medium to large {over 400sq with ceilings up to over 20ft} so while a tower will go "low" and make a good amount of bass, they are not tuned for my room, I want enough bass to fill the room without having to blast the mids and highs beyond comfort... This is accomplished with subs and separate gain control. Another thing to think about is cabinet resonance, and for some reason when you cross the lows from a full range speaker the highs and mids tend to improve...

Now I have heard speakers that can stand alone, some have powered subs built in {mirage om6?, LSI25, ect} and some use larger drivers Opus 2-3's, Klipsch rf7 {lows are the only nice thing about these}, cerwin vega 215's {nothing you would want in your living room, or your wife rather}, ect. But even them spaekrs can not usually compare to what you will get out of a decent pair of subs...

But thats what makes me happy, there are others that are fine with a nice pair of bookshelfs with no subs, the bass from a pair of 5 1/4" drivers is enough... So its all personal preference, buy what sounds good to you, but try everything to figure it out...

 

[Kruz]

I agree with this too. There is just something so nice about a well built pair of towers in a room.

My opinion is that it depends on how much money you have and how much space you have.

Assuming all equal and high quality components with limited space and budget, I would rather have more subs and less towers than have less subs and more towers.

However, there is no "right" or "wrong", but only personal preferences.

For me, there is more than one factor when buying speakers. And one of these factors is aesthetic.