Tough decision Pioneer 815 or 1015

[Kevqtmn]

What are the "real" advantages

I keep seeing how the 1015 has "Video Conversion up-converts S-Video and composite video into component video, for a simpler, higher-quality video connection to your TV or Panel"

How much will this actually help the picture quality?

I am also debating the 815 vs the 1015 and I think I would rather use the extra $200 for other accessories ($80 surge protector, etc.) I guess if the Video Conversion actually improves the image quality, then it may be worth it. However, if it is more of a feature of convenience, I can pass on it.

Again the difference is about $200 and I do not have a concrete budget - my philosophy is to always but the best value. My Yamaha RX-V490 was ruined when all the damn hurricanes came by last year so I know for sure I will need a surge protector.

Also, I will be buying the new XBOX 360 when it comes out as well as an HDTV within the next 4 months.

Overall, I am more concerned with the audio quality more so than the video quality and I still need to keep as much money aside for good speakers.

Any advice is good advice.

 

[wilkenboy]

If your source is composite or S-video upconversion really won't help the image quality... rather it formats it to component so that you can use a single component (highest analog quality on most sets) cable between your AVR and TV/projector. This is a convenience factor, but you could easily eat some of that $200 differential up with extra higher quality interconnects between your AVR and TV (have to add a composite cable and S-video cable, and then you'd have to switch video sources between the three on your TV). To get better image quality you'd need some fancier video processor.

What's your speaker budget? $200 dollars towards speakers can mean a lot if you are looking from going from $500 to $700 or $700 to $900, but the higher up the scale you go the less that $200 means (sorry if that's stating the obvious).

But your intent is correct. Spending the money on the speakers (or sub!) vs the electronics is almost never a bad tradeoff.

I couldn't speak to the sound diff between the 815 and 1015, I've never heard the 815. The 1015 is nice, though, comparable with a Yammy 1500 or Denon 2805 at a few hundred less.

I know it may sound casual, but don't let $200 keep you from getting what you want, speakers or receiver-wise- just save a little longer, its a lot easier to save and get what you want then to have to re-purchase a component again in two years.

~Josh

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Pull the wool down further, please

Guys tought decision for me. First home theatre system. I am not to worried about the extra money but what will I as a relative novice be getting if I buy the 1015 over the 815. Just concerned I will be paying extra for items I cannot use at this point. Now maybe 10 years down the road if I move into a bigger house but that is a while.

E

Just another thought on the Pioneer decision. You really limit yourself to what speakers you can drive by going with the 815. The 1015, being rated as THX Select 2, allows you to go with many 6 ohm and lower spl speakers, while the 815 would work best with 8 ohm, higher spl speakers.

One other aspect I absolutely hate about the 815, is how Poineer decided to publish the specs.
Surround Power 700 Watts Total System Power - 100 watts x 7 (1kHz 1.0% THD @ 8 Ohms)
Stereo Power 200 Watts Total System Power - 100 watts x 2 (20 Hz - 20kHz .7% THD @ 8 Ohms)

Why the high distortion? To get to that ever popular 100 watt rating. I wonder where it would be if rated at .05 THD, and full bandwidth for surround power. We know the true rating on the 1015 - just look at the Elite 52 or 9100. It's too bad they had to use .2% THD on the 1015, but at least it's full bandwidth in surround mode.

Pathetic, and once again, pulling the wool over consumers eyes.

 

[Spiffyfast]

Just another thought on the Pioneer decision. You really limit yourself to what speakers you can drive by going with the 815. The 1015, being rated as THX Select 2, allows you to go with many 6 ohm and lower spl speakers, while the 815 would work best with 8 ohm, higher spl speakers.

One other aspect I absolutely hate about the 815, is how Poineer decided to publish the specs.
Surround Power 700 Watts Total System Power - 100 watts x 7 (1kHz 1.0% THD @ 8 Ohms)
Stereo Power 200 Watts Total System Power - 100 watts x 2 (20 Hz - 20kHz .7% THD @ 8 Ohms)

Why the high distortion? To get to that ever popular 100 watt rating. I wonder where it would be if rated at .05 THD, and full bandwidth for surround power. We know the true rating on the 1015 - just look at the Elite 52 or 9100. It's too bad they had to use .2% THD on the 1015, but at least it's full bandwidth in surround mode.

Pathetic, and once again, pulling the wool over consumers eyes.

Whats funny, is that I'm pretty sure in the manual it doesnt even list the 120x7, but its on the box, I think its 110watts x 7 (20hz - 20khz .09%) inside the manual, so it is definately just a marketing thing in both cases.

 

[brian32672]

Why the high distortion? To get to that ever popular 100 watt rating. I wonder where it would be if rated at .05 THD, and full bandwidth for surround power. We know the true rating on the 1015 - just look at the Elite 52 or 9100. It's too bad they had to use .2% THD on the 1015, but at least it's full bandwidth in surround mode.

Pathetic, and once again, pulling the wool over consumers eyes.

Yeah I'm with Spiffy on this one. The rating is highly oversaid. And I have posted many places stating the THD of this unit must be a Typo. The manual claims lower.

Anyhow, I got mine for 393.00 shipped. But I beleive the place is on backorder as well.

The unit is well worth the money and even more.

If you are stepping up to the 815, then yes you should notice a difference. But as another poster had stated, he is now kicking himself for not going the little extra.

My advice get the 1015tx, then save and buy your speakers seperate like Spiffy.

 

[Kevqtmn]

Thanks for the advice

Regardless of which model I go with, any suggestions on speakers?
Current Speaker Set up would be:
Center Channel:
Yamaha NS-AC2 Center Channel (8ohms) with a max of 80 watts.
Fronts:
Acoustic Research S-40 Towers - Link Here
Rears/Sides:
Boston Acoustic HD-5 (8ohms)

My immediate budget for adding or improving speakers would fall into the range of $200-$300 keeping the Acoustic Research S-40s.
I think they sound pretty sweet myself and I think I need to focus on a solid subwoofer and accessories (surge protection, wire, etc.)

I really don't know much about this stuff except that I love good music, want to hear it clean and loud, and I have very little money.

Is it an oxymoron to say "I am an audiophile on a budget?"

Thanks again for everyone's advice.

 

[wilkenboy]

My immediate budget for adding or improving speakers would fall into the range of $200-$300 keeping the Acoustic Research S-40s.
I think they sound pretty sweet myself and I think I need to focus on a solid subwoofer and accessories (surge protection, wire, etc.)

I really don't know much about this stuff except that I love good music, want to hear it clean and loud, and I have very little money.

Is it an oxymoron to say "I am an audiophile on a budget?"

All audiophiles have budgets, some just more than others-

I would not go overboard on either cables or surge protection if I were you. Definetly steer clear of the stuff they push at you in most stereo stores that make outrageous claims about a wire's impact on sound. It's wire carrying 20 KHz for a couple of feet for Jeebus' sake. I've pitched lamp wire at home depot vs some "high performance" wire and not heard the difference, at least on mid range receivers and speakers. Get a decent 14 AWG or 12 AWG and don't look back. You can also spend upwards of $200 on a "high end" surge supressor. I would plan on just getting a basic models, which can be had between $25 and $40.

No sub? You'll find a tremendous amount of advice on subs here. I would recommend, based on taste, either the SVS line for low freq extension or the HSU line for something "more musical". They are a bit more than $300 but a good sub makes up for many other failings in a system in my opinion. Worth saving for.

Happy hunting!

~Josh

 

[Kevqtmn]

THX or not

I am leaning towards the 1015 and will buy once I have the room ready. As I have already made the decision, I have been looking at different media out there with the THX logo and I have to say I am not impressed.

Question is this - will the THX even be used? I have yet to see an Xbox game with the THX logo and I have only one DVD with it. It seems to me like it is barely valuable.

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents worth.

I would have posted this as a new thread but was unable to do so and it kind of ties into the original post since the 815 does not support THX while the 1015 does.

 

[brian32672]

I am leaning towards the 1015 and will buy once I have the room ready. As I have already made the decision, I have been looking at different media out there with the THX logo and I have to say I am not impressed.

Question is this - will the THX even be used? I have yet to see an Xbox game with the THX logo and I have only one DVD with it. It seems to me like it is barely valuable.

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents worth.

I would have posted this as a new thread but was unable to do so and it kind of ties into the original post since the 815 does not support THX while the 1015 does.

THX logo is just a certification that says the unit complies with THX standards.
There are many units that are not THX certified that would still pass the THX standards.
I believe a few posts above you were looking for some decent musical speakers.
Well I have heard the Fluance set, and even though it claims it was set up for a movie genre, it is much more musical. And well in your price range.
199.99 for 5 speakers. On eBay you could get them for less. I by chance have the mains and rear channels for sale. The rears have never been used. The weakest part of the fluance set is the center, and the one that comes with the set is quite small. You could get their upgraded center seperately. But Fluance will not break a set apart. So it would have to be bought seperately anyway.
Here is a link to the set I am talking about.
http://www.fluance.com/fluanceavhtb.html

 

[Spiffyfast]

I only have 2 dvd's that are THX, but I use the THX processing with alot of my movies, I think it sounds better than just Pro Logic 2, but thats just personal preferance. The THX is more of a certification that this product has a sound that can produce a Reat Theater type experience. Check out www.thx.com and they have the criteria that a receiver must meet to get the approval, its some pretty strict stuff, and don't forget there are alot of companies that don't bother with paying to get a receiver certified just b/c they dont want to. The 1015tx is a huge step up from the 815, if its within your budget I think its an easy decision.

 

[Spiffyfast]

Brian ya beet me to it while I was typing the post....arrrggg!!! LOL

 

[brian32672]

Yea, here is a better understanding of THX standards...
http://www.audioholics.com/FAQs/THXSelectUltra2JohnDahl.php

 

[brian32672]

I only have 2 dvd's that are THX, but I use the THX processing with alot of my movies, I think it sounds better than just Pro Logic 2, but thats just personal preferance. The THX is more of a certification that this product has a sound that can produce a Reat Theater type experience. Check out www.thx.com and they have the criteria that a receiver must meet to get the approval, its some pretty strict stuff, and don't forget there are alot of companies that don't bother with paying to get a receiver certified just b/c they dont want to. The 1015tx is a huge step up from the 815, if its within your budget I think its an easy decision.

Yes there are some THX modes. But I really don't hear much difference between the Dolby Digital specially DD-EX compared to THX modes. Now however the unit has superb sound for DTS 5.1, DTS 6.1 Discrete, DTS 96/24. Etc..

 

[Kevqtmn]

Thanks again

Thanks again for your replies.

I also appreciate the speaker recommendations. I will look into them.

I like my Boston HD5's and I think they will be great rear channels but I am not sure about my Acoustic Research S40s as my fronts/mains. They are not bad and in my opinion do a great job of imaging as I am running them temporarily with an old Kenwood receiver with no kind of processing whatsoever or even a center channel...These S40s are the only thing hooked up to that old Kenwood right now but when I watch a movie with just these two speakers, there is an acceptable level of bass to moderately suit me and they seem to project vocals out of a center speaker which does not even exist.

Has anyone even heard of these things. I bought them a few years ago off of Ubid for maybe $225 for the pair. Maybe I only think they are good because I have never owned a good quality system so it is tough to say what is good and what is "really" great.

 

[Spiffyfast]

Kevqtmn,

Go out and demo some speakers with some music or movies that you know very well and know how it sounds on your current speakers. You may find that you enjoy what you have now and don't see a need to upgrade. The only way to figure it out is to listen to as much as possible. Speaking from experience I'm glad I did, it's how I decided that I wanted something with horn tweeters b/c it works great for the Rock music that I listen to.

 

[lithnights]

It's obvious on this thread that the consensus is to spend the extra money to get the 1015 over the 815. I was all set to get the 815 (especially based on audioholics review AND the Sound and Vision magazine review)... but now you got me thinking...

In my HT, I currently have 301s as my front speakers.. and cheapy $100 speakers in the rear. I may be replacing all my speakers but if I did, I wouldn't go too much further up in quality/price. Would the extra power/features etc. that the 1015 offers over the 815 be noticeable on my speakers?

Or is the advantage of the 1015 only noticeable on higher end speakers?

I only have a 5.1 speaker setup (wife won't let me have more than 2 rear speakers) and I'm far from an audiophile so I am just curious if I would notice the difference that the approx. $200 is going to cost me.

Thanks!

 

[brian32672]

The quick answer to your question is no.
Granted, a little will be determined from what speakers you get.
The 1015 does have a tad more power and cleaner
(however, power numbers mean little - unless you like to listen at reference to above levels)
1015 offers video upconversion
1015's remote is a learning remote (compared to a preprogramed remote)
1015 has THX Select2 certification (this has been covered extensively)
1015 has the flip down door (aesthetically much nicer)
1015 weight is 34.7 lbs 815 is 22.4 (better build on the 1015, better power supply, etc..)
1015 has the OSD (on screen display) Great feature to have for adjustments, specially the individual speaker 5 band EQ.
The 1015 has more composite & S-video inputs (more than likely only half would be used anyway)
1015 has digital output
The 815 has one extra soundfield
The 1015 uses a Mosfet Transistor the 815 uses a Thermal Compensation Transistor
For explanation of these - see links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_transistor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosfet

 

[lithnights]

The quick answer to your question is no.
Granted, a little will be determined from what speakers you get.
The 1015 does have a tad more power and cleaner
(however, power numbers mean little - unless you like to listen at reference to above levels)
1015 offers video upconversion
1015's remote is a learning remote (compared to a preprogramed remote)
1015 has THX Select2 certification (this has been covered extensively)
1015 has the flip down door (aesthetically much nicer)
1015 weight is 34.7 lbs 815 is 22.4 (better build on the 1015, better power supply, etc..)
1015 has the OSD (on screen display) Great feature to have for adjustments, specially the individual speaker 5 band EQ.
The 1015 has more composite & S-video inputs (more than likely only half would be used anyway)
1015 has digital output
The 815 has one extra soundfield
The 1015 uses a Mosfet Transistor the 815 uses a Thermal Compensation Transistor
For explanation of these - see links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_transistor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosfet

Cool. Thanks for the detail, that helps.

1) But to clarify when you say "The quick answer to your question is no." is that responding to my question of "would the 1015 difference be noticeable on my 301s?" or to my question "is the advantage of the 1015 only noticeable on higher end speakers"

2) So I assume if I buy the 1015 I should be pretty set for the next 10 years as far as technological advances? I don't need the latest and greatest technology at all times but for instance, my 96 bought Kenwood only had Dolby Pro Logic and 5 years later I was wishing it had Dolby Digital. I am guessing the 1015 should cover me for awhile..

3) What's the deal with the volume on this (and other receivers)? Why do they go from -72 or so down to 0? I saw this last night in BB and (I hate to sound like a complainer) it annoyed me a bit since I'm so used to seeing volume go up. Please tell me this is simply something I will get used to over time!

 

[rumble]

2) So I assume if I buy the 1015 I should be pretty set for the next 10 years as far as technological advances? I don't need the latest and greatest technology at all times but for instance, my 96 bought Kenwood only had Dolby Pro Logic and 5 years later I was wishing it had Dolby Digital. I am guessing the 1015 should cover me for awhile..

The 1015 should cover you for now but 10 years is a bit much to ask.

3) What's the deal with the volume on this (and other receivers)? Why do they go from -72 or so down to 0? I saw this last night in BB and (I hate to sound like a complainer) it annoyed me a bit since I'm so used to seeing volume go up. Please tell me this is simply something I will get used to over time!

Can't speak for other recievers but the Pioneer sets volume when you run the autocalibration with the included microphone. Running the MCACC calibrates the volume control so the "0" setting is equal to reference level volume(85dB) at the listening position. So -10 is 10dB below reference level.

Technically it is going up. -72 is less than -50.

 

[lithnights]

The 1015 should cover you for now but 10 years is a bit much to ask.




Can't speak for other recievers but the Pioneer sets volume when you run the autocalibration with the included microphone. Running the MCACC calibrates the volume control so the "0" setting is equal to reference level volume(85dB) at the listening position. So -10 is 10dB below reference level.

Technically it is going up. -72 is less than -50.

Thanks for the clarification. I know the volume truly is going up (-50 is indeed greater than -72), it's just odd to see the numbers in the negative...

I guess it is something I will adjust to. After all my research and all the good reviews, I guess I can't change my decision just based on the appearance of the volume.