Toobs are for Boobs

[pewternhrata]

Is there a group of "motor heads" that are taking fuel-injected cars and retrofitting them with "good ole" carburetors or is it just audio that is prone to this kind of lunacy? How about condensers and distributors?!

Actually yes, less electronics in a carb setup. I'm not too familiar with tube amps, my assumption would be less electronic components (processors, chips, what-not) that can fail, the tube could fail but easily be replaced?

 

[Verdinut]

Actually yes, less electronics in a carb setup. I'm not too familiar with tube amps, my assumption would be less electronic components (processors, chips, what-not) that can fail, the tube could fail but easily be replaced?

What you don't seem to know about tube amps is that they are over time doomed to self-destruction from the heat dissipated by the tubes. They are not more reliable. SS amps are definitely more reliable with the exception that, if you overdrive some beyond their limits, they could be damaged if they don't have adequate protection circuits..

 

[Mikado463]

So if you get it, what do you "get"?

lovin, I think the vast majority on this forum don't even want to understand the attraction to tube gear and that's fine.

 

[ATLAudio]

lovin, I think the vast majority on this forum don't even want to understand the attraction to tube gear and that's fine.

Odd sales pitch... So, go ahead, break it down for us.

 

[Mikado463]

Odd sales pitch... So, go ahead, break it down for us.

Grant,

numerous responses here have tried to give you somewhat of a 'thumbnail sketch' as to the attraction of tubes yet you continually fail to acknowledge or grasp what is being said. I'm not selling you anything, nor do I care if you have an interest in tubes or not, I assume you're smart enough to use your 'Google' button, good luck !!

 

[ATLAudio]

Grant,

numerous responses here have tried to give you somewhat of a 'thumbnail sketch' as to the attraction of tubes yet you continually fail to acknowledge or grasp what is being said. I'm not selling you anything, nor do I care if you have an interest in tubes or not, I assume you're smart enough to use your 'Google' button, good luck !!

Well, ok, I am comfortable assuming you don't know. Got it.

Yes, I'm aware of tube amplifiers being used for musical production, and their benefit when used in that regard. My question is about reproduction. So when I reject that information or "thumbnail sketch" (whatever that means) on logical grounds, because it pertains to production you just fold up your tent. So, no, I didn't find that information convincing or satisfying to my question. If you do, why?

I've learned that too many people in this hobby like being comfortable in their fantasies. Especially when they broadly claim no one on this forum would appreciate their view. In reality they don't want those delicate views challenged.

That said, I'm using a specialist forum to acquire more information. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand how that works. Telling someone to basically F off the forum and go Google machine, if not a ToS violation, it certainly violates the spirit of one existing.

 

[Swerd]

I have a son and a nephew who are both of the age (millennial generation more or less) who have come to believe, in general, that vintage is better than modern. They certainly believe, incorrectly, that vinyl records sound better than digital CDs, even after I pointed out that they were listening to MP3 digital recordings, not CDs, when comparing them to vinyl records.

However, I did succeed in convincing them that vacuum tubes in audio playback gear is old technology that should be ignored, despite what is popularly touted. Like most their age, they are avid users of smart phones. I asked them when was the last time anyone bragged about their vacuum tube-containing iphone?

 

[ATLAudio]

Tubes for the DIY'er pursuing it as a hobby? Some of us like to build stuff.

Maestros with a soldering iron are a totally different thing. Keep going with your bad self.

 

[ATLAudio]

I have a son and a nephew who are both of the age (millennial generation more or less) who have come to believe, in general, that vintage is better than modern. They certainly believe, incorrectly, that vinyl records sound better than digital CDs, even after I pointed out that they were listening to MP3 digital recordings, not CDs, when comparing them to vinyl records.

However, I did succeed in convincing them that vacuum tubes in audio playback gear is old technology that should be ignored, despite what is popularly touted. Like most their age, they are avid users of smart phones. I asked them when was the last time anyone bragged about their vacuum tube-containing iphone?

Compare the recordings, not the format. I can put a good recording on Ogg lossy 356 kbps, and it'll kick serious butt, and no one will be able to distinguish it from it's 24/192 master, because it's a good recording.
However, when done right, CD is the best format.

This is why I have a turntable, CD player, and streaming service.

 

[Verdinut]

Here is a list, probably incomplete, of the disadvantages of a tube amplifier compared to a solid state amplifier:

- More expensive and heavier than most good performing SS amps

- Less ecologic as a higher percentage of the power consumption is wasted in heat

• Tube performance decreases with use, but transistor performance remains steady
  
  
• Added maintenance costs (expensive tubes have to be replaced)

Most tube amplifiers need periodic output tube bias adjustment to maintain optimal performance (definitely required when changing tubes) Has to be done by a qualified technician or knowledgeable audiophile)

Lower damping factor not compatible with high Q speakers

Will not provide similar high power outputs


Finally, would you imagine a 13.2 ch tube AVR? That would mean a very big and awkward to handle heavy chassis with all the inconvenience and tremendous heat. It would however be useful as a backup furnace for winter months!

 

[KEW]

Here is a list, probably incomplete, of the disadvantages of a tube amplifier compared to a solid state amplifier:

- More expensive and heavier than most good performing SS amps

- Less ecologic as a higher percentage of the power consumption is wasted in heat

• Tube performance decreases with use, but transistor performance remains steady
  
  
• Added maintenance costs (expensive tubes have to be replaced)

Most tube amplifiers need periodic output tube bias adjustment to maintain optimal performance (definitely required when changing tubes) Has to be done by a qualified technician or knowledgeable audiophile)

Lower damping factor not compatible with high Q speakers

Will not provide similar high power outputs


Finally, would you imagine a 13.2 ch tube AVR? That would mean a very big and awkward to handle heavy chassis with all the inconvenience and tremendous heat. It would however be useful as a backup furnace for winter months!

You mean for the same money I can get an amp with less power that requires more maintenance and cooks its own self?
Sign me up!

The argument for tube amps may go better after those of us who remember them die off!

 

[Mikado463]

However, when done right, CD is the best format.

when done right analog can be just as good, you are correct , 'when done right' , so much comes down to the mastering. Analog requires greater $$ spent to bring out it's best compared to digital IMO.

This is why I have a turntable, CD player, and streaming service.

likewise ................

 

[Verdinut]

You mean for the same money I can get an amp with less power that requires more maintenance and cooks its own self?
Sign me up!

The argument for tube amps may go better after those of us who remember them die off!

Maybe yes, maybe not if the younger generations finally get to the same conclusion as we have from the experience.

Cheers,

André

 

[Mikado463]

Here is a list, probably incomplete, of the disadvantages of a tube amplifier compared to a solid state amplifier:

- More expensive and heavier than most good performing SS amps

all depends ones definition of 'good'

- Less ecologic as a higher percentage of the power consumption is wasted in heat

totally dependent on amp class of operation

Added maintenance costs (expensive tubes have to be replaced)

while true, not all tubes are exspensive

Most tube amplifiers need periodic output tube bias adjustment to maintain optimal performance (definitely required when changing tubes) Has to be done by a qualified technician or knowledgeable audiophile)

somewhat true, a lot of modern tube amps are auto-bias, those that require manual biasing are as easy as pie(for the most part) and don't require it as often as you think

Lower damping factor not compatible with high Q speakers

while the best SS amps will definitely shine here there are modern wide bandwidth tube amps (Rogue for example) that produce solid(non-wooly) bass

Will not provide similar high power outputs

again while mostly true most folks that utilize tube amps do so with more efficient speakers

Finally, would you imagine a 13.2 ch tube AVR? That would mean a very big and awkward to handle heavy chassis with all the inconvenience and tremendous heat. It would however be useful as a backup furnace for winter months!

LOL, tubes and HT are rarely seen ............

 

[Bucknekked]

You mean for the same money I can get an amp with less power that requires more maintenance and cooks its own self?
Sign me up!

The argument for tube amps may go better after those of us who remember them die off!

KEW
I think this is a completely under represented school of thought. Spot on, but under represented.
If, like me, you lived through the tube time period, you have a very different view of tubes and the products they were in. I lived through amplifier hiss and music that didn't have "black as night" quiet spots because tube amps just aren't "black as nigh" quiet when the music is trying to be.

Tubes were a step in a journey, not and endpoint destination. Tubes in the car radio ! Sounds romantic. It wasn't romantic at all. It was static and buzz. The soft glow of tubes in the back of your TV set. Again, not romantic. More like a freakin' fire hazard if the kids got back there.

If you lived through it, tubes don't have the allure that many folks today would apply to them. Good riddance from my point of view. I built an "antique" radio that has switches and dials and tubes all over it. It lights up and has a very steampunk look. I have that for my grandkids to go "wow, you built that?". Yep. But, I don't listen to it because it sounds like crap.

If someone, like the OP, wants to purchase and own a tube rig, well, that's fine with me. I got nothin' against folks buying whatever pleases them. Tube amps are cool looking things. Some may even sound good. I am in the "live and let live" camp. I'm with you however, I've grown out of them.

 

[Mikado463]

LOL Buck, you have no clue as to what 'modern' tube amplification is capable of. While it might not be for you (that's Ok) your curmudgeon take is quite laughable

 

[Bucknekked]

LOL Buck, you have no clue as to what 'modern' tube amplification is capable of. While it might not be for you (that's Ok) your curmudgeon take is quite laughable

tread very softly on the "you have no clue" stuff.

 

[Mikado463]

tread very softly on the "you have no clue" stuff.

your the one making statements of hiss, etc. so if that is what you believe all tubes are capable of then you have no clue, understood ?

 

[mtrycrafts]

So, like an expensive lava lamp?

Yes, but they don't pass music through it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...despite what is popularly touted. Like most their age, they are avid users of smart phones. I asked them when was the last time anyone bragged about their vacuum tube-containing iphone?

Touted by a small number as is the vinyl group.

You just gave a new marketing gimmick to iphone makers, a small micro tube in there.