Too many choices! I'm baffled

[mdrew]

The last Hi-Fi system I bought was close to ten years ago. Heck, it's been so long I don't even think it's called Hi-Fi anymore??? While doing some research, I stumbled across this sight and have been digesting everything I can, unfortunately, I'm more confused now than before. I could really use some candid feedback here. No way to make this short, so please bear with me.

Three years ago I bought a 46" Mitsubishi HD 1080 TV, and an el cheepo Aiwa AV-77 5.1 sound system from Costco. I also have some Kenwood three way speakers and a Kenwood CD changer that I use for two channel music. About two months ago, I was wandering through Sam’s and stumbled across what I THOUGHT was a good deal, the Bose Acoustimass 10, series II speaker system. So that's what I now have for sound. I also have the Toshiba SD-6200 DVD player. Ok, that's what I have now, which until my divorce, was acceptable. Now my house seems to be the town’s social gathering place and I need some more sound.

If it makes a difference, my house is a log home. I have a great room with a U-shape loft above it that is open in the middle (hence the U). The great room is where my kitchen, living area and dining area are. This area is 28’ X 32’ in diameter with ten foot walls to the loft floor. There is an open area (the U) that goes to the vaulted ceiling, which is 23’ to the peak. Currently, the TV area is in one of the loft’s dormers. This area is 12’ X 12’. As far as the TV area is concerned, the little Bose speakers sound just fine, although I suspect my Aiwa stinks. It’s supposed to put out 120 Watts per channel at 8 ohms, and 170 in two channel but I doubt that. It’s not very loud.

When I have company over (sometimes up to 30 people), I just turn on the TV and listen to one of the music channels on the satellite, or pop some CD’s. The sound from the system in the loft carries down to the great room where everyone is milling around. As you can probably imagine, this arraignment doesn’t work so well. What I would like to do is buy a new receiver that I can run two channel speakers that I will place in the great room area. The same receiver would also run the Bose system when I’m chilling watching a movie.

So if your still with me, I need to buy a pair of good floor standing speakers that will sound good and pump out some volume, and I need a new receiver to run them and little Bose’s upstairs.

My budget is around $1500. The other kicker to this situation is that I live in a remote area 300 miles away from the nearest city that any retailers. I’d rather just buy on line or pick up the phone and have this stuff trucked to me. I can’t really get away from town to go audition speakers and receivers. Plus, the city doesn’t carry many of the brands that I see praised on this sight.

For receivers I’ve been looking at the Yamaha 1400 & 2400, Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX, Denon AVR-2805, Sony STR-DA1000ES, Onkyo TX-SR701, and more. As you can see, I don’t have short list.

For speakers, I’ve even more baffled. There’s just too many choices out there. I listen to just about everything but that friggin dance music, rap and anything even closely resembling that type of music. If I had to pick some favorites, they would be ACDC, Audioslave, Kenny Wayne Shepard, Kenny Chestly, and Toby Keith.

Still with me? If so, help please.

……….mike

 

[Unregistered 2]

Well, since no one else has made any suggestions, here's one:

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR701: 6 x 100 wpc, THX certified, with powered zone 2. This receiver MSRP's for $800 but can be ordered from One Call (onecall.com) for $599.

Speakers: Axiom M60ti: 8 ohm floorstanders, can be purchased in 4 different finishes. These speakers are $800 and are available only through Axiom (axiomaudio.com), a highly regarded internet company.

Onkyo makes a variety of audio gear. While they're not noted for extremely high-end stuff, their general reputation is good for mid-fi gear. I've never heard Axiom speakers, but they enjoy a generally good reputation. If you cruise these audio forums you will see many satisfied owners.

Good luck!

 

[ericb]

good luck

For the receivers you listed, I think the Pioneer Elite would definitely out perform pretty much any of those. the VSX53 is right up there with the Denon 3805 as far as features, build quality, I/O's, and it is THX certified if that makes a difference to you. Nice warm sounding receiver. It has awesome surround sound processing and does a great job with music as well. For speakers, in that price range, I find the Paradigm a good bang for the buck and they match very well with both the Denon and the pioneer. Never heard them paired up with the Onkyo though.

good luck!

 

[Unregistered 2]

I don't know alot about Pioneer; I trust ericb knows what he's talking about when he says the VSX-53TX will outperform the receivers you mentioned. But, its MSRP is $1,500 and I doubt you will be able to find it at an authorized Pioneer dealer for near what you will want to pay for it given your budget of $1,500. I've seen it advertised for as little as less than $700, but at those prices, you don't get a factory warranty. I didn't see that unit offered at any of Pioneer's authorized internet dealers when I did a quick search. Maybe Pioneer has a less expensive model that ericb can recommend.

Moreover, with a $1,500 budget, you don't want to spend $1,000 on a receiver and $500 on speakers. IMHO the bulk of your money should be spent on speakers; that's what you hear. You mentioned the Denon AVR-2805. I understand that's a great mid-fi receiver but its fairly new and you probably won't be able to get it at an authorized internet dealer for much less than the MSRP of $899 (you can get a 10% discount at Crutchfield if you buy more than two components). So, if you spend $899, that would leave only $600 for a pair of floorstanding speakers. If you went that way, you might find something in the Polk line -- Monitor 60's? I don't know much about these speakers. But again, I think you would do better spending more on speakers than a receiver.

You're right, with the vast amount of audio gear out there, especially speakers, it can get overwhelming. For many, it's a matter of going out and doing alot of listening. Given your geographical situation though, you're really at a disadvantage. You are putting yourself in a position to trust what others say about a given product.

My advice is spend alot of time on this and other forums. Do searches and ask questions. You will find some folks who will tell you to stop looking and buy what they have because theirs is the best thing since sliced bread and everything else is terrible. In your situation, don't listen to those folks; try to get a consensus. If you find that the overwhelming majority of folks have something nice to say about a product, chances are that product is a decent product.

Another consideration: If you want your budget to go farther, give some thought to buying used gear through audiogon or videogon. Most folks take real good care of their equipment and you can find some awesome bargains on gear that is higher end than you would otherwise be able to afford. An obvious downside to this is that you may not get a product with a transferable factory warranty.

Good luck!

 

[nm2285]

Leaving the Aiwa for the Bose is not an option? If you can do that, buying a nice integrated amp or a stereo receiver will either save you some money or allow you to get better sound out of your floorstanders for the same price.

Either way, I wouldn't go with the Sony. Look at NAD if it's within your budget (especially integrated amps and stereo receivers).

For speakers, if they're to be used in the situations you stated, check out Athena AS-F2 and Klipsch SF-2. They'll both play loud and hard. The Athena will be a bit more refined for music. Either should fit the bill (although I would prefer the Athena).

If you can do integrated amps/stereo receivers check out the NAD C370 (its an older model you can find cheap) or the model just below it, the 350. Both of the speakers I recommended are efficient and the NADs give out robust power even with conservative ratings so don't worry about underpowering them!

 

[mdrew]

Thanks for all your replies and suggestions. It's pretty cool that folks like y'all take to time help out.

I am looking to replace the Aiwa because I suspect it's about the die any day now. Volume fades in and out when it's in Dolby, and like I said before, it just doesn't crank the tunes in 2 channel like 170 watts should.

I am eventually going to finish my basement, which will have a 16 X 18 home theater / game room in it. The 46" TV will be replaced with a projection unit. The receiver will go to the HT with the speakers I am looking to buy now. But, that will not be for about 12 months at the rate I'm going. So I'm not afraid to drop some coin on a good, reasonable priced receiver and set of speakers.

When I built the house, I pre-wired it for a whole home audio system. I will buy the speakers and hardware for that when I get the basement finished, so the speakers I'm looking to buy now will not be needed in the great room.

With all this in mind, the $1500 budget I set was 'about'. I can actually afford to spend up to $2000 now, if it makes sense to do so. I do not want to kick myself in the rear later because I should have dropped another $200 on a receiver or set of speakers that would have been the better choice. But on the other hand, I don't spend that much time in front of the TV and I can't justify one of the $20,000 home theater / sound systems.

I did look at the Axiom 80's, and they seem to get good reviews. I'm wondering how much base and sound they’d put out with such small woofers though?? Is this not a factor nowadays?



I can tell already that I'm going to be spending a lot of time asking questions here.......

 

[Rob Babcock]

As has been mentioned in other threads, PSB makes some great speakers for not a lot of money. You can often get blems & B-stock w/full factory warrenty for a great price. Klipsch also makes some speakers you might like if rock at high volumes is a priority.

The Denon AVR-2805 would be a superb choice, as I'm sure would the offerings of Pioneer, Yamaha & Onkyo around that same price range.

Take a little time to read the many posts on the topic of speakers & receivers here at AH. This question has been much discussed; it'll be faster to catch up than to wait for all of it to be reposted here!

 

[zipper]

One "problem" of buying quality speakers is that,to sound their best,they need to have some quality electronics,which isn't cheap. I have the Axiom 60's & am happy with them. Haven't heard the 80's but would be willing to bet they are also a great value.Any really good speaker you buy is not going to sound it's best w/o some good clean power,so when you do make your purchase don't expect the world out of them until you can also afford to power them adequately. I agree with Rob in that most of what you want to know is here on this site. I also agree with another post on this thread about spending the bulk of your budget on speakers. I would suggest the same,then buy a good receiver that has a good amount of features & pre-outs instead of one that touts high power(which makes them more expensive). Then,in the future,you can buy an amp to attach to the receiver & you'll be set.
Building over time can lessen the blow to the wallet.

 

[Unregistered 2]

Now that you have $2,000 to play with, Denon's AVR-2805 is definitely in your budget. I will have to second Rob's AVR-2805 recommendation; that is a fine choice. If you purchase on-line from an authorized dealer, that would leave about $1,100 for floorstanders. Two which you might consider are:

1) Axiom M80ti at $1,100, which you have already looked at, and

2) Rocket RS550 MKII by Onix at $999. (See av123.com)

Both of these are Internet-only companies. I believe they both have 30-day return policies, so you can audition them in your home. I haven't heard either speaker, so you'd have to get opinions from others, but I must say that the RS550 is one good looking speaker. It comes two finishes: African Macassar Ebony and South American Rosewood which is gorgeous.

There may well be other Internet-only speaker companies; perhaps others can give you some more names. Not not all of them sell floorstanders that are within your budget. For example Ascend Acoustics doesn't sell floorstanders and ACI's least expensive floorstanders are $1,800 a pair.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I haven't heard the Rockets, but a lot of guys I know speak highly of them. They're drop dead gorgeous, too, and owners say the pictures don't do them justice at all!

 

[Unregistered 2]

One other speaker to look at is Aperion. I believe they too are an Internet-only company. They have something called a "Powered Tower." I had great difficulty navigating their website; maybe you'll have better luck. They looked pretty nice in cherry and looked like they had a subwoofer build into the bottom of them. The bore a price of "$500 each." I don't know if they meant $599 for each pair or what. Again, I've never heard these speakers, but I have read complimentary comments about them on audio forums. Perhaps someone else can offer an opinion on them.

 

[smith101]

I keep thinking about that 28 x 32 ft area and a single pair of floor speakers is going to be really uncomfortable when you have 30 people over. Some people will be close to them and get blasted and others will be far away and not be able to hear. If everyone sits down theater style they will work fine, but I'll bet that's not what you expect. People milling around make wonderful sound absorbers, and one big pair of speakers is going to be a problem. I know you want to use them later downstairs, but for upstairs I really suggest at least two pair of larger satellite type speakers that are small enough to be put overhead so the sound gets distributed above the crowd. Two or more small subs can fill in the bass. By the way, horn speakers, including some Klipsch, are very directional and no fun to be in front of with the power up. Sorry to muddy up your decision, but I'm just trying to save you from a problem your description says will occur. In your situation I would consider two larger Cambridge Soundworks "ensemble" type systems which you can get shipped with a 30 day no questions return priveledge, and probably longer if you ask.

Had a log home once, and if you have exposed logs in the interior, they are likely to soak up some sound. They are like little wedges (like those used in sound absorbent chambers) where they come together. Whatever brand amp you get, go for high wattage.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

Only ten years? You're a piker. I'm still listening to gear I got in the '70s (hence my handle)!

Those trial periods offered by 'Net-only speaker companies are a real boon. Take advantage of it! You can get good speakers and audition them in your own place at no risk. Only hassle is shipping them back. A small price to pay, IMHO. I have nothing to add to the above in the way of specific suggestions.

As for electronics, I'll reprise my usual line: except for amplifier power you can consider audible differences in electronic signal paths (NOT speakers) to be extremely subtle or nil. Put the bulk of your budget and mental energy into choosing and buying your speakers. That is where the real differences lie. Exceptions may be in how well the DSP modes are implemented, especially the "gimmick" ones like "Concert Hall", "Church" and such. But (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the licensed DSP modes such as Dolby Pro Logic have to meet fairly rigorous standards imposed by the licensors; audible differences are unlikely.

So what you need in your receiver (or separates) is an up-to-date feature set and DSP, and (especially for a large space) all the honestly rated continuous amp power you can get your mitts on for a given price. A good way to get all that is to look at late model used gear. The previous model versions of nearly anything you are looking for can be had at half the price of new. Heck, sometimes people sell current model gear because they decided they just had to have the bells and whistles (or prestige) of a more "high-end" piece. IMO, as long as a receiver or preamp has Dolby Pro Logic II, it's current enough in my book. Yes, you forego the warranty. But frankly, if a piece of modern solid state gear has been functioning properly for weeks or months already it's probably good to go for years so the risk is very slight. Much less than for a used car, that's for sure!

eBay and audiogon.com are good sources for used gear. Audiogon.com obviously specializes in home theatre and audio gear. That's where the real "gotta have the latest" gear freaks buy and sell.

Your big room inspires envy! I should have such a problem! A big room like that will be less prone to boomy bass. Oh, and strictly speaking the uneven log surface of your house will not absorb sound so much as diffuse it. Which is generally a good thing.

 

[mdrew]

Thanks again to everyone for their input. I’ll have some killer sound gear all over the house before long.

It looks as if I’m taking a trip to the big city this weekend. I’ll have a chance to go to some electronic stores and listen to some sound systems. I think I’m certainly in a better place of understanding to avoid getting baffled by BS that salesmen like to feed un-informed consumers (suckers).

Someone mentioned that the room with 30 people milling about might be too big for floor speakers. Yes, I totally agree. Like I mentioned earlier, I have the house pre-wired for a whole home audio system, which will have four ceiling speakers in this area. I have three other zones in the house (including the garage), I’m just saving up the cash to finish it. I was almost there, but my new dirt bike (KX 250) beat out the audio system.

And to the moderators, I know how questions like this can sometimes be a PITA because most of the information is already covered. I used to moderate a Chevy performance board years ago and got quite frustrated answering the same questions over and over again. I feel your pain. But, I have spent hours searching and reading already. My but can only take so much though. Plus, it’s summer and I like to play in the dirt.

I’ve wrote down everyone’s suggested gear and will start surfing.

 

[gene]

I don't know if they meant $599 for each pair or what. Again, I've never heard these speakers, but I have read complimentary comments about them on audio forums. Perhaps someone else can offer an opinion on them.

Sure, here is our opinion on then: Aperion Audio Powered Towers Review

 

[Rob Babcock]

Ceiling speakers might be okay for a party, but very few of them sound good enough for serious music or movie listening.

 

[mdrew]

That's a good point about the ceiling speakers, that's another reason I haven't been all fired up to get the home audio system going. But they're great for parties and I've got the cat 5 ran for a remote system.

For speakers, the Axiom 80's sure look hard to beat. Can anyone confirm or counter that aluminum drivers are good / bad?? I have no idea.

The Rockets are definitely beautiful. Man they’d look good in my house. Without listening though, I'm guessing the Axioms will sound as good if not better. And of course, I am drawn toward the 750's at $1500 a pair. The Axiom 80's are $1100. I looked at the Aperions, but I'm not sure that if a powered sub in my fronts is the way to go. I think I'd rather have an independent sub to put wherever I want when I get around to finishing the HT room.

It looks like my choices for a receiver are the two Yamaha’s (1400 / 2400), the pioneer elite or one of the Denon's. From what I've read, these three brands get the most glory.

Dangit!! There goes another $500. Now I'm up to around 1200 for a receiver and at least 1100 for speakers. Oh well, it's only money and I do like my tunes. Might as well pony up and not look back.

 

[nadnklipsch]

Klipsch

You could always look at an older pair of Klipsch Heresy's. For around 600-900 dollars you can get a great used pair. And despite their "small" size they'll definetly crank.