Kimber Kable 8TC vs 12TC (cable general)

mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Running a pioneer VSX 520 your monster lamp cord is probably more than enough. You won't benefit much from higher end cables.
What does it take for cables to matter then??? Please be specific. Evidence would also help your case.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
There are numerous tutorials even in Baidu.com on 4 wire, 5 wire, 6 wire etc braiding techniques. They all look good to me if you don't mind me saying. Instead of arguing, buy the wires and connectors. Braid the wires the way you want it and enjoy looking at your work. For those who can afford those made by Kimber, good for you. For those with time, try DIY.
Sounds as if you need to be in the salon hairstyling business and not audio.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I listened to a system yesterday, which uses some kind of expensive cables, cable stands, expensive Class A mono block amplifiers, very nice speakers, a nice turntable and cartridge and a different preamp from the one he had been using. Since he has worked in the Audio business for decades, he has saved tons of money on his investment but I would guess that it's in the high five figures even with the discounts.

When I mentioned that one speaker was closer to his main listening position, he said they had recently cleaned the carpet and that he hasn't placed the speakers where they had been but he had raved about his newest speakers in the past. He has two other pairs of expensive speakers in the room, as well as two large-ish subwoofers that aren't being used- the speakers have a jumper connecting the positive and negative terminals, which prevents the cones resonating because of the sound from the speakers that are being used (JBL and some other manufacturers ship their larger drivers with a jumper to prevent damage from rough handling).

To be honest, I'd rather listen to my system. The balance of frequency response and perceived image/sound stage are much better and, while he doesn't use his system for video in any way and we didn't listen to any mono music or speaking, mine places the sound dead center between my speakers and human voice is very natural.

I used speaker cable that was cut off when I did an installation, so it could be called 'scrap'.

While I spent some time placing my speakers and used Room EQ Wizard to do this and also when I placed some acoustical treatments, he has done neither. Admittedly, finding the "right spot" for speakers is a royal PITA, it needs to be done. He has done little to treat the room and in fact, I asked him to move the pillows that had been propped up on the backrest of his sofa because I had the same sensation I get when other phase issues are present, from bad speaker placement, crossover problems, driver polarity reversal or having a lot of absorption on one side and less on the other (which is what he had, with the pillows in place). It helped, but it didn't help enough, IMO. I also moved one speaker so its distance was more similar to the other and toed it in a bit.

I think he's having serious doubts about the system and he said he's going to return the preamp that's in the rack now- he seems to be hunting for just the right pieces more than usual and this is the reason I don't want to deal with the really high end equipment- it's easy to become veruy neurotic about whether the sound is as good as it should and could be and the price is too high for me. If price is no object, someone can spend what they want, but I don't see it as a good value to drop close to $100K and have doubts. I went to a high end dealer a couple of weeks ago and that system sounded much better, to me- the SPL was also very low and it still imaged extremely well.

Specific to Kimber cable, I know a Kimber Cable dealer and when I asked one of the guys working there about it, he told me that he asked Ray himself why he sells cables that are so expensive and the answer was "People pay me a lot of money for them".

The son of Noel Lee (fonder of Monster Cables) was asked for his opinion on his father's products and he said "My father found the solution to a problem that didn't exist".

Buy them if you want, but if you think you hear a difference, it's either because you know they're being used and were told what you should hear, you decide that you want to hear the same differences as others or because the cable has some electrical characteristic that causes this difference. A group of wires that each have been insulated will have more capacitance than a group of strands that are insulated together, like regular speaker cables. If they start talking about 'skin effect', make sure you read about this before you go to the dealer, so you have the info you'll need to see that this is a selling tactic- skin effect means nothing at audio frequencies.

Save your money.
Modern audio trends, along with the high amount of posing that tends to go with it, has caused me to go back to the "less is more" roots I started with, when I enjoyed listening so much more. I thought perhaps I had been blind to all that is possible with audio due to ignorance of ever evolving technology, but then I noticed a reoccurring trend among modern audiophiles. First and foremost, how disposable modern gear seems to be, compared to old. Not from wearing out or failure, but from seeming dissatisfaction. In spite of all the measured proof, there is still a lot of second-guessing and upgraditus. People reverting back to tubes and other quirky technology trying to get the old sound back. People buying the next best new thing, praising it ad nauseam, only to find that a year or less down the road, they have sold it out, and moved on to something else.

This has led to what amounts to a lot of erroneous and rather unbelievable conclusions with regard to what is popular in audio now. Meanwhile, I am coveting budget speakers that are over 20 years old, hoping they outlast me. I have no less than 5 pairs of speakers that assure I will not be without these basic principles that do not end up in the realm of so many compromises that so many modern, ultra-neutral designs tend to bring. At least for my sort of beer can or wine box style of music enjoyment.

About the only thing that has enhanced what I was doing before is. . .separate subwoofers and associated bass management. Meanwhile, my much heavier invested associate claims that I just don't realize what I am missing, even though I have over 2 decades more at this than what he does. His system and listening room causes me anxiety. Too splashy, reflective, uncomfortable and analytical. Like listening in a lab with all kinds of weird stuff on the walls and ceiling and not much else. A lot to go thru for two-channel listening and I would not trade what I have for anything he has or does. He may use his system 4-5 days/month, while I can't wait to get home to mine each day, where I spend hours.

During this last hurricane Milton, I was without power for days. All I had to listen to was my son's rechargeable JBL Flip6 Bluetooth mono speaker. I was so happy to have that and thoroughly enjoyed listening to such a comparatively crude system than what I was used to. Yet another instance to remind me where I came from and how easy it is to overthink and overspend on this hobby.

All of my speakers use 12 gauge copper zip wire from Parts Express. I bought a 100' spool of the stuff. The insulation is quite thick. The wire for my subs is that 12gauge outdoor lighting wire from Home Cheapo attached to Neutrik connectors, mostly because it is supple and lays well, and fits the connectors nicer than zip cord would.

I feel that if someone is second guessing their cables beyond the technical and scientific knowns of wire, is because they bought the wrong speakers and their listening room is likely following a trendy aesthetic value over that of acoustical.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top