O

oli

Enthusiast
I have Direct TV and am considering purchasing a DVR from them, which will be $99 lease plus $5/mo. But, then, there is TiVo, to consider. What is the difference?
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I answered this question several months ago, here are my responses (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37693&highlight=tivo):

#1
I LOVED my Tivo when I had it. I mean absolutely loved. Of all the equipment that I've bought over the years and have yet to buy, my first Tivo will always be my favorite. I switched to cable provided DVR for two reasons- 1) The ability to record HD as well as 2 channels at once, and 2) Major IR connectivity problems with the ancient non-HD boxes my Chicago cable carrier was providing (for the room without HD).

The only thing that I would watch out for is whether the "lifetime service" is good for future upgrades or for new boxes. I remember back when Tivo first started that anytime a new box was bought you had to start a new service plan, even if you had originally bought lifetime service. If you ever want to buy another box with more recording time or upgrade to the next set of HD technology, then you may have to repay the lifetime service fee (or in your case may not even have the access to do so and have to switch to monthly).

That's where cable has the advantage- if new technology comes out, it automatically filters down to you and they just bring you a new box. My Tivo box became out of date within 2 years with the popularity of HDTV.

#2
Look- it really comes down to how much you're going to use Tivo for its advanced features. When Tivo first started all of its features had never been seen before, but now every DVR now has season passes and the ability to record stuff that you manually set. Tivo has 3 advanced features that won me over:

1) The Up/Down buttons and the ability to self-record programs based on your preference. Keep in mind, these are screwy at first and you need to be careful what you record and mark as thumbs up (e.g. I once recorded the Princess Bride- an alltime classic in my opinion- and for a month the Tivo recorded EVERY romantic comedy on the tube), but once working right it will find you cool new stuff to watch. This is especially true when it comes to the History/Discovery/National Geographic channels... I used to learn so much more while watching TV than I do now.

2) The ability to record anything that includes your favorite actors/directors/sports teams. Specify an actor, it will record everything they're in. This is great for those movies that might only play once or twice a year (e.g. White Christmas, Anything with Jimmy Stewart) but you might not want to miss. I also used to use it to record SNL reruns from the "good" periods on E!. Also great for baseball- I would just set it to record every Mets game but have it only save 1 episode at a time. Then I could watch the game in fast forward later.

3) Online scheduling. Not sure if Tivo still offers this, but I remember often being at a friends house or even at work and hearing about a new show and not wanting to forget to record it. Instead of having to remember until I got home, it was easy just to go online and set it up.

If these aren't for you, then I say stick with DVR and put the onus on your cable company to provide service. But if you're really going to use your tivo to its maximum potential, then it will blow non-Tivo DVRs out of the water every time.
 
O

oli

Enthusiast
Thanks, I appreciate all the time you took. I do have Direct TV and the box, if I choose to get it, will be $99, initially, then $5/mo after that. I do like the idea of recording eveything of a particular event or person.
I will have to check into future upgrades, but I think it will cost me everytime there is an upgrade.
Thanks again
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
To use a Tivo with DirecTV would result in limited functionality. You would only be able to record one show at a time and you would not be able to watch another at the same time. If you have HD, the HD Tivo model isn't compatible with DirecTV at all.

I had a Tivo for a year and a half. I loved it. It was easy to use and feature rich.

However, I have since switched to Dish Network and I like their DVR much more. It is more flexible, has more options, responds quicker, and has more than 6 times the storage space.

I don't like the DirecTV DVR as much as Dish but I think you will like it better than a Tivo simply because you will have full DVR functionality.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Are you going with HD service or standard? If you go with HD, the Direct TV 5 LLB HD system is not compatible with any Tivo player, at least it will not get local HD channels, nor their recently added HD channels. I have two Direct TV HD 20 DVRs. I can tell you they are fickle. I think they are cheap and have really marginal power supplies. They are quite the lowest end pieces of equipment in both my systems. I regard them as the lowest of the lowest end, and resent having to tolerate them amongst the rest of my equipment. If you do get one make sure you get a smart UPS, that will support voltage around 106 volts within 2ms.

I just had a surge protection on my lower level unit. I added a UPS today. Direct TV had to do a complete reload of the software, to undo the corruption from the powering problems. I have had to set my studio UPS system to max sensitivity to prevent the unit loosing channels and becoming forgetful!

Hopefully the lower level unit will perform as well as the studio one. I can tell you one thing there is no pride of ownership with these units. Any other unit of comparable build quality I would walk past in a hurry.
 
O

oli

Enthusiast
Are you going with HD service or standard? If you go with HD, the Direct TV 5 LLB HD system is not compatible with any Tivo player, at least it will not get local HD channels, nor their recently added HD channels. I have two Direct TV HD 20 DVRs. I can tell you they are fickle. I think they are cheap and have really marginal power supplies. They are quite the lowest end pieces of equipment in both my systems. I regard them as the lowest of the lowest end, and resent having to tolerate them amongst the rest of my equipment. If you do get one make sure you get a smart UPS, that will support voltage around 106 volts within 2ms.

I just had a surge protection on my lower level unit. I added a UPS today. Direct TV had to do a complete reload of the software, to undo the corruption from the powering problems. I have had to set my studio UPS system to max sensitivity to prevent the unit loosing channels and becoming forgetful!

Hopefully the lower level unit will perform as well as the studio one. I can tell you one thing there is no pride of ownership with these units. Any other unit of comparable build quality I would walk past in a hurry.
Here's an interesting:
http://www.weaknees.com/tivo/humax_dvd_80_drt400.php
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I will have to dig out more info. You would have to be careful. As far as I know direct TV have not shared their new 5 LLB digital satellite system with any one. The three LLB system is lousy any way, because the LLB receivers are not properly sealed, and fill up with water! You need the 5 LLB system to get local Hd channels and the recently added ones. The three LLB system does not carry many digital channels.
 
Duffinator

Duffinator

Audioholic Field Marshall
But if you're going to use your tivo to its maximum potential, then it will blow non-Tivo DVRs out of the water every time.
Blow it out of the water? Hardly. I used a DTV TiVo, HR 10-250, for many years and loved it. I made the switch to the DTV HR20-100 a year ago and have never looked back. There are some things the TiVo does better and some things the HR20 does better. Having the DVR integrated into DTV is the only way to go with HD. When TiVo first came out it was the greatest thing since sliced bread but the technology has become a commodity. There have been issues with the HR20/21's in their initial implementation but at this point in time there is no reason not to use them. Go with the DTV DVR.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
Blow it out of the water? Hardly. I used a DTV TiVo, HR 10-250, for many years and loved it. I made the switch to the DTV HR20-100 a year ago and have never looked back. There are some things the TiVo does better and some things the HR20 does better. Having the DVR integrated into DTV is the only way to go with HD. When TiVo first came out it was the greatest thing since sliced bread but the technology has become a commodity. There have been issues with the HR20/21's in their initial implementation but at this point in time there is no reason not to use them. Go with the DTV DVR.
Does your non-Tivo DVR have any of the three features that I listed above:

1) Up/Down buttons
2) The ability to record anything that includes your favorite actors/directors/sports teams.
3) Online scheduling.

If not then I would still say Tivo is better. I miss my tivo :(
 
Duffinator

Duffinator

Audioholic Field Marshall
Does your non-Tivo DVR have any of the three features that I listed above:

1) Up/Down buttons
2) The ability to record anything that includes your favorite actors/directors/sports teams.
3) Online scheduling.

If not then I would still say Tivo is better. I miss my tivo :(
1. Yes.
2. Not sure but not a big deal to me.
3. Yes.

Does the HR10 TiVo show the channel you're watching while surfing the guide or looking at your list of programmed shows? No.

Does the HR10 TiVo have internet capability and the ability to program online? No.

Does the HR10 TiVo have the ability to stream movies, photos, and music from your computer? No.

Comparing a stand alone TiVo to the DTV DVR is pointless as you cannot record HD so you must compare the HR10 to the HR20/21. Seriously, I didn't want to make the switch because I loved my TiVo but I don't miss it at all. BTW I always thought ReplayTV had the better OS anyway.

The best info on DTV/Dish HD DVR's is at www.dbstalk.com
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I have just had my lower level HD 20 replaced today with an HD 21. The LLB unit on the roof was also defective.

Now I had no end of trouble with the Direct TV LLB unit on the previous HD system. These units are phantom powered. There is 13.5 volts on one coax line from the DVR and 18 volts on the other. I have had some power issues lately. However these are not uncommon. I would strongly advise anyone owning these units to power them via a UPS with 2ms response time. Voltage support should start at around 106 volts. My other unit has always been powered from a UPS and has no issues. This is the third unit to be installed in the lower level system since October. The tech says he is replacing a lot of of DVRs and LLB units in this region. The lower level system now also has a smart UPS system.
 
Duffinator

Duffinator

Audioholic Field Marshall
I have just had my lower level HD 20 replaced today with an HD 21.
Do you mean HR20/21? The HR20 is not a lower lever receiver. The main difference between the two is the HR20 has OTA tuners and and HR21 does not. In my eyes that makes the HR20's (I have two HR20-100's) more desirable than the HR21's. I've had no issues with my systems.

BTW, you need a 5 lnb to receive all the new HD channels and the quality is no different than a 3 lnb just adds additional MPEG4 channel capacity from the new birds.
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Do you mean HR20/21? The HR20 is not a lower lever receiver. The main difference between the two is the HR20 has OTA tuners and and HR20 does not. In my eyes that makes the HR20's (I have two HR20-100's) better than the HR20's. I've had no issues with my systems.

BTW, you need a 5 lnb to receive all the new HD stations and the quality is no different than a 3 lnb just adds additional channel capacity from the new birds.
Lower level refers to the floor in which it is installed. The one giving trouble in in what we call the lower level. The studio is on the fourth level.

The unit was labeled HD 21. The one it replaces was an HD 20. The build quality of this unit seems a little better, but still below the rest of my gear. I still regard these units a pretty bottom end. All of my troubles point to a power supply made to a price point. I will say one thing this unit boots up much faster than the others, or the Tivos. The slow boot time of the previous units and the current one in the studio is indicative of micro processors sourced from the cheapest markets.

The trouble is these days design starts with a price point. The designers are told we want this unit and it has to cost X. No one asks is it any good!. That's were it should start.

One thing that annoys me about these forums, is that so many posts about price points, seldom about quality. Frankly I have no desire to own 90% plus of the items touted in these forums. Its high time to emphasize quality above price points.
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
I think Dish definetely has the advantage when it comes to hardware. The VIP 722 DVR is very solid and well built. It has yet to freeze up on me.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I think Dish definetely has the advantage when it comes to hardware. The VIP 722 DVR is very solid and well built. It has yet to freeze up on me.
That's what the locals say round here. If I have any more trouble I will declare Direct TV in breech of contract and switch to DISH.
 
Duffinator

Duffinator

Audioholic Field Marshall
Lower level refers to the floor in which it is installed. The one giving trouble in in what we call the lower level. The studio is on the fourth level.
Got it. The HR10's do appear to be better made than the HR20/21's.
 
O

oli

Enthusiast
That's what the locals say round here. If I have any more trouble I will declare Direct TV in breech of contract and switch to DISH.
I notice you're in MN, so, perhaps because I am in a more pleasant climate, I may not have the problems you're having. One thing I wish the DVR from DirectTV would have is the ability to burn CDs. I tend to keep the occasional fishing or auto related items for later.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I notice you're in MN, so, perhaps because I am in a more pleasant climate, I may not have the problems you're having. One thing I wish the DVR from DirectTV would have is the ability to burn CDs. I tend to keep the occasional fishing or auto related items for later.
Yes, but they should work anywhere. Those damn price points!
 
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