Time Warner Total HD Disc

[Buckle-meister]

Is the coarseness of the grain on film equal to the maximum resolution that can digitally be lifted from it?

 

[malvado78]

Well I chose Vaporware. I don't reall think this but choosing between Microsoft, Sony, and Time Warner is like making me choose between Hitler, Stalin, and Sadaam. Whose you favorite dictator?

 

[GlocksRock]

I vote for HD-DVD.

 

[j_garcia]

I voted total HD, but I'm really leaning towards Blu Ray. Just like DVD-A/SACD, if the universal players are good enough, I'd probably go with one of those though and not worry about format.

 

[Jack Hammer]

In all honesty...

...I really don't care who wins. I'd just like them to do it sometime in the near future.

FWIW, I voted Blu-Ray. Not because of any claimed benefits over the other formats. Simply because I like the name and find it a little less confusing in general. Meaning, I was originally confused by the name HD-DVD; I, like many, had thought all dvd's were already high definition. To me HD-DVD sounds like an upgraded version of what is already there (dvd). Blu-Ray sounds like something new and different (better).

Jack

 

[WmAx]

Is the coarseness of the grain on film equal to the maximum resolution that can digitally be lifted from it?

This depends on the meaning of maximum resolution; do you mean theoretical maximum or practical? Film grain itself is not the smallest image forming particle on the film, but grain is a pattern noise, and occludes/masks the resolution. What you can lift from the image depends on the contrast of the elements in a particular circumstance, the type of *noise reduction system used, and other post processing factors.

-Chris

*Regardless of the noise reduction system, at a certain threshold, the noise reduction system can not discern noise from image detail, and as a result, tends to remove both[if used too aggressively], causing an easily recognizable(to image editing people, at least) signature appearance that is akin to a plastic surface effect.

 

[Buckle-meister]

...depends on the meaning of maximum resolution; do you mean theoretical maximum or practical?

Theoretical of course! My mind likes to consider perfect state/behaviour.

Film grain itself is not the smallest image forming particle on the film, but grain is a pattern noise, and occludes/masks the resolution.

I hadn't realised that grain wasn't the smallest image forming particle and so I guess the answer to my question is no.

Interesting that grain is nothing more than pattern noise. It seems obvious now that I think of it. To the software that digitally lifts information from the film, it must be analogous to trying to see the woods from the trees eh?

 

[Guiria]

I can't imagine HD-DVD or Blu-ray going away with the huge support behind each. I hope universal players become the norm and that's when I'll jump on the wagon.

 

[j_garcia]

FYI, big box stores say they will support Total HD disc:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070110/tc_nm/electronics_show_warnerbros_dc_2

 

[Jack Hammer]

I can't imagine HD-DVD or Blu-ray going away with the huge support behind each...

Divx had huge support behind it for what seemed like quite a long time. Including some big names who stuck with them til near the end. In the long run dvd won out that format war and those divx only titles were eventually released on dvd. Now, most universal players play divx as well as dvd.

Jack

 

[stratman]

FYI, big box stores say they will support Total HD disc:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070110/tc_nm/electronics_show_warnerbros_dc_2

If you read the article a good point is made, adding a third competitor might lengthen the format "war", IMO I don't think so, just the opposite might happen, the third competitor might be the impetus for LG's tech to be licensed by other makers faster, as long as this conflict exist everyone is losing money due to the fact that consumers are in a waiting pattern.

 

[dobyblue]

51gb capacity HD DVD ...

http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/16862.html

HD DVD now has more capacity
LOTR coming out on HD DVD

can I change my vote?

This wil be for the PC environment.
BLu-ray has a working 200GB disc.
Advantage Blu-ray.

They won't even have a working prototype of this disc (currently it's only on paper) until at the very earliest Q4/07 and they currently have not been able to get (according to Toshiba) a triple-layer HD45 (15GB/layer) disc working on current models. I'm sure they will not want to render 175,000 existing players useless losing their existing consumer market.

PC World
Blu-ray 200GB (tested and working)
HD DVD 51GB (proposed)

Movies
Blu-ray 50GB
HD DVD 30GB

I chose Blu-ray because firstly because of the studio support and secondly because the Blu-ray studios are using lossless audio on almost 100% of their titles. HD DVD's sole major studio supporter, Universal, has yet to use lossless audio. The difference between PCM and lossy Dolby is inarguable to my ears.

AS for the dimensions of film, if the master is in good condition and was not shot on PAL film like 28 Days Later, one of the only major films I know of, then I don't see why it can't give an excellent 1080p rendering. Casablanca from 1942 has received flawless ratings across the board on HD DVD.

Also, regarding aspect ratios and time ranges, if this is useful to anyone, taken from Deci at the BD forums.

Square: Movies 1.18 - 1.38 wide
Silent films 1.33 = 1895 - 1931
Movietone Sound 1.18 = 1928-1931
Academy Sound 1.38 = 1931-1955
TV films and series 1.33 = 20th century TV

Widescreen: Movies 1.66 - 1.85 wide
European widescreen 1.66 = 1955 onwards
Disney Widescreen 1.75 = 1955-1970's
USA Widescreen 1.85 = 1955 onwards
VistaVision 1.85 = 50's and 60's
Super-35 1.85 = last couple of decades
HDTV TV and series 1.78 = 21rst century TV

Scope: Movies 2.00 - 2.75 wide
CINERAMA 2.59 = (only two 60's movies)
CinemaScope55 (55mm) 2.55 (only two 50's movies)
CinemaScope magnetic soundtrack 2.55 = 1952-1956
CinemaScope/Panavision/Superscope235 optical soundtrack 2.35 = 1957-1970
Panavision/Arrivision et al optical soundtrack 2.40 = 1970-1995
Panavision/Arrivision et al digital soundtrack 2.39 = 1995 onwards
SuperPanavision (70mm) 2.20
UltraPanavision (70mm) 2.75
SuperScope 2.00 =50's
Super-35 2.40/2.39 = last couple of decades
Techniscope 2.35 = 1960 -1970, 2.40 after that
Technirama 2.30

I don't see the THD as being a third option. Supporting Blu-ray I will buy the THD versions of LOTR as there will likely not be a BD-only edition.
Warner, HBO and New Line (all owned by Time Warner) are making sure they sell as many copies of their movies as they can with reduced costs. Kudos to them. If Universal do the same then I think Toshiba will join the BDA and this war will come to a close.

 

[stratman]

I'm still sticking to my guns, by the end of the summer everything will be sorted out.

 

[f0am]

I am waiting to make a decision. I personally am annoyed at the average consumer not knowing the downfalls of DRM. I wish people would just refuse to buy these products and force the market into a different solution. I know this will never happen but one can dream right??

 

[stratman]

I am waiting to make a decision. I personally am annoyed at the average consumer not knowing the downfalls of DRM. I wish people would just refuse to buy these products and force the market into a different solution. I know this will never happen but one can dream right??

Let's see what LG does with their dual player.

 

[stratman]

Boy I as just looking at the poll numbers above: Bluray 252, HD-DVD 42.

Nielsen published the final numbers for Hd discs sales for last quarter, advantage to Bluray so far outselling HD-DVD 2 to 1. This has prompted Sony (prematurely IMO) to issue press release stating that Bluray won the the format war, "there's no need for sitting on the fence" they quipped to press. It looks like the software advantage goes to Blueray while the hardware goes to HD-DVD as far as features. I've been going back and forth to BB to see the LG player, no luck, my friend says about 10 more days, he's the guy who told me a while back that BB was keeping close tabs on the sales figures of both formats, he was right on the figures too, they were estimating back in December 2 to 1 in favor of Bluray. Also Bluray is spending much more money in ads and releasing more titles.