Time to buy a gun ... again

[ImcLoud]

Nice, only a few assault weapons available rite now that I find interesting..
Springfield m1 socom II {I own 1 of these}

Steyr aug {I bought a pair of these, scored them for $2600 brand new for the pair!!!


and the adams arms elite 14.5 {I own one but I had the brl pinned and welded so it is 16" and locally legal}
14.5" Mid Tactical Elite Rifle

them 3 should be in every assault weapon collection, all of my aw's are now stored in a friends vault in Rhode Island since ct changed their laws as of the first!!!!


That DW is a nice pistol, 1600 sounds expensive but when you consider it is as nice as $4000 1911's its not as tough to swallow...

 

[GlocksRock]

Freaking Kalifornia. I told the woman the other day: "I never thought it would come to this, but we won't be retiring in California." With certain pistols dropping off the DOJ "CA approved" roster left and right, I am in a decision spot. I wasn't planning on picking up a new M&P .45, but they drop off the roster on Friday. The shop has the last one on sale at cost because they'd rather sell it than send it back to S&W. I'd like to pick it up, but I would rather put that toward the Dan Wesson instead... The Dan Wesson can be ordered anytime though and I don't really need it...and it costs over 2X the price. I don't need the M&P either, but not being able to get it means prices will go up for them (available via PPT only) and they will be very difficult to get.

The whole thing is over Microstamping. Smith & Wesson and Ruger have said they will no longer sell pistols in California due to this new (pointless) requirement.

Smith & Wesson to halt California sales over microstamping

I know the NRA is challenging the law in court, however my buddy at the shop said even if it gets reversed, most likely all the pistols that drop off will have to be recertified under current CA law, and many of them don't comply with that either , so it will continue to be an issue.

Get the M&P now, before someone else grabs it. You will totally regret it if you don't!

 

[j_garcia]

Get the M&P now, before someone else grabs it. You will totally regret it if you don't!

I already regret it. I went back before they opened and was the first one in the door. It sold the night before.

Steyr aug {I bought a pair of these, scored them for $2600 brand new for the pair!!!

Damn, that's good. I like the Aug and I think there is a CA legal one as well, but figured I'd try out the new Taurus since it is more similar to the AR platform and less than half the price of the PS90. Still waiting for them to finish making mine CA compliant.

That DW is a nice pistol, 1600 sounds expensive but when you consider it is as nice as $4000 1911's its not as tough to swallow...

No doubt, and I don't actually think that's high for that pistol to be honest. I can tell from handling it that it is really well built.

 

[ImcLoud]

Well people get used to seeing companies like GLOCK, Taurus, ect selling these $500 guns, then they look at a good 1911 and say "what are you crazy I can get 3 glocks for that..." I love 1911's Springfield, Sig, DW, Les Baer, Kimber, Colt, ect ect ect I own so many and can not say a bad thing about any {although kimber had their troubles}... I think Sig DW and Springfield have the best values rite now..

 

[herbu]

From April 1960 issue of GUNS magazine...
Classic GUNS Magazine Editions | Guns Magazine

Senator John F. Kennedy
Comm.: Foreign Relations;
Labor & Public Welfare; Joint Economic Comm.
Massachu'setts
By CALLING ATTENTION to "a well regulated militia," the "security" of the nation,
and the right of each citizen "to keep and bear arms," our founding fathers recognized
the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is
extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny whjch
. gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger
to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration
of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which
every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his
country. For that re'ason I believe the Second Amendment will
always be important.

 

[j_garcia]

Interestingly, in CA recently a case regarding CCW laws was just thrown out. Since open carry was banned two years ago, having restrictions on the ability to obtain a CCW then infringed on 2nd Amendment rights. That means that CCW will now become easier to get because the case was specifically regarding how difficult it is to obtain a CCW here.

 

[mike c]

got the suppressor before the threaded barrel


for scale

 

[mike c]

so i went to a gunstore selling Taurus revolvers.

saw something called the Judge. looks horrible, but is chambered in .410/45LC

1) do i understand correctly that this SAME revolver can use both types of rounds? (kinda like 38spl and 357magnum)
2) in terms of kick, can you rank the following: 9mm, 45LC, 45 ACP, 38spl?

thanks in advance

 

[j_garcia]

Yes. The Judge is one of the few that can do that, but I thought it was .454 Casull not .45 colt (or actually all of them). S&W have a new one coming out that can do this as well.

I've never fired .45 Colt, but presume it is similar to .45ACP as ACP can be used in some revolvers with half or full moon clips and ACP was derived from .45 colt IIRC.

Kick:
1) 9mm
2).38SPL
3).45
4).410 in a revolver

 

[mike c]

i see. i would have thought the shot shell would have less kick.

i've never shot a shotgun (or the sort).

 

[herbu]

i see. i would have thought the shot shell would have less kick.

Consider the physics. A 2.5 inch .410 usually has 1/2 ounce of shot. (A 3" is 11/16s ounce.)
So 1/2 ounce at 1200fps.
There are 437.5 grains in an ounce... so that's ~219 grains.

219 grains at 1200fps. That's a pretty stout handgun load.

 

[slipperybidness]

Yes. The Judge is one of the few that can do that, but I thought it was .454 Casull not .45 colt (or actually all of them). S&W have a new one coming out that can do this as well.

I've never fired .45 Colt, but presume it is similar to .45ACP as ACP can be used in some revolvers with half or full moon clips and ACP was derived from .45 colt IIRC.

Kick:
1) 9mm
2).38SPL
3).45
4).410 in a revolver

The new, new Taurus Judge (I think it's called the Raging Judge or maybe the Public Defender) can shoot the .454Casull, the .45LC, and the .410 shot shells.

I have one of the older generation Judges, it shoots .45LC and .410 only. Mine is the 3" barrel and the 3" chamber, so that means I can shoot 3" or 2.5" shells out of it. I also have a laser site on it

As far as the kick, I'd say your list is just about right by my opinion too. I will say that the Judge does not have as much kick as you expect on the shot shells, but it does still have a good kick to it. As far as shooting the .45LC, it is more accurate than I expected it to be.

The newest judge also has vented barrel to try to keep the muzzle down.

I love my Judge. I'll be the first to admit that it seems like a bit of a gimmick, but what a heck of a gimmick to have! Of all my guns, this is the most fun to shoot. I also keep it beside my bed for home defense with a mix of the home defense .410 shells (3 disks and 12 pellets!) and .45LC.

I scored mine at a gun show, used, for $360 out the door. I couldn't pass that up!

 

[itschris]

Be careful on ported barrels for home defense. In darkened conditions, the flash can impact your night eyes and be somewhat blinding. One of my handguns is a ported XD 40. One of the ranges I got to is sort of dark. When you shoot that gun it looks like top fuel dragster with the flames shooting out. The darker the room, the greater the potential impact can be. For home defense, especially at night, I'd stick with a non-ported barrel. My two sense.

 

[slipperybidness]

Be careful on ported barrels for home defense. In darkened conditions, the flash can impact your night eyes and be somewhat blinding. One of my handguns is a ported XD 40. One of the ranges I got to is sort of dark. When you shoot that gun it looks like top fuel dragster with the flames shooting out. The darker the room, the greater the potential impact can be. For home defense, especially at night, I'd stick with a non-ported barrel. My two sense.

You make a good point. My Judge is older so it doesn't have the barrel ports, so no problem for me.

But, yeah, good info to keep in mind, thanks.

 

[herbu]

Of all my guns, this is the most fun to shoot.

I have considered one of these for a snake gun around the house. The thing I wondered about is shot spread w/ a rifled barrel, even at close range. Have you played around with regular shotshells at 6-10' to see what the spread is? I suppose there is some sweet spot where a regular load of #8s will give you good coverage in about a 12" circle. That would seem to be pretty good for snakes. (I say #8s because that's what I load for sporting clays, so that's what I readily have.)

(Funny... while I was writing this, my wife saw a racoon ON THE PORCH eating out of the bird feeders. It is the middle of the morning and sunny. The bandit didn't look rabid, but middle of the day on the porch is very unusual behavior. A .22lr took care of it.)

 

[Midwesthonky]

Yes. The Judge is one of the few that can do that, but I thought it was .454 Casull not .45 colt (or actually all of them). S&W have a new one coming out that can do this as well.

I've never fired .45 Colt, but presume it is similar to .45ACP as ACP can be used in some revolvers with half or full moon clips and ACP was derived from .45 colt IIRC.

Kick:
1) 9mm
2).38SPL
3).45
4).410 in a revolver

Can't say I have ever shot .410 in a revolver. I haven't shot .38SPL either. But I have a Ruger Blackhawk chambered in .45 long colt. My 9mm and the .45 ACP are all semi-auto so not exactly apples to apples. But for recoil, a lot depends on the gun. My favorites to shoot are the Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Long Colt and a Colt Gold Cup in .45 ACP. But both are heavier guns which help with the recoil. I've shot my brother's Springfield XDS (?) and it's so small that it hurt. I finished out the clip and moved back to mine.

I have also shot a Browning in 9mm. My favorites are still the Colt Gold Cup and the Ruger Blackhawk. For recoil and ability to get a nice grouping, I like them a lot. Not the cheapest ammo, but you gotta like what you shoot.

I would think a revolver that can shoot the .410 shell would be fine if the frame weighs enough to help with the recoil. It's all about the gun and how it's designed to handle the recoil. Just my thoughts.

 

[j_garcia]

Yeah, looks like the Raging Judge is the one that includes the .454. The 4510 is still in production and says .45 colt and .410 and there are about 15 variants of it. I've always thought it was a bit of a gimmick too, but also sort of built for a specific defensive purpose: shotgun spread without carrying a shotgun. Kick is your tradeoff for having that capability. After you've slowed them down with the shot, then you've got the .45 rounds if necessary. Those disc shotshells are pretty impressive too; neighbor has a .410 and uses them.

Recoil is definitely a function of the gun, but shotshells weren't designed for revolvers .410 isn't that big, but it will still kick more in a revolver than a shotgun. The Judge and Raging Judge are definitely not small, light guns either.

I have considered one of these for a snake gun around the house. The thing I wondered about is shot spread w/ a rifled barrel, even at close range. Have you played around with regular shotshells at 6-10' to see what the spread is? I suppose there is some sweet spot where a regular load of #8s will give you good coverage in about a 12" circle. That would seem to be pretty good for snakes. (I say #8s because that's what I load for sporting clays, so that's what I readily have.)

They sell shotshell in all common calibers, including semi-auto and even .22LR. I bought a couple of different kinds to try out, so I have 9MM, .38SPL and .22LR. We mainly go for the .38SPL since it was the "around the house" gun carried for snake purposes and it worked well. 9MM don't have quite enough energy to cycle the slide, so they don't always extract perfectly, but they work well enough too and recoil is low. The pellets are pretty small, but the spread at ~10ft is good.

(Funny... while I was writing this, my wife saw a racoon ON THE PORCH eating out of the bird feeders. It is the middle of the morning and sunny. The bandit didn't look rabid, but middle of the day on the porch is very unusual behavior. A .22lr took care of it.)

Not good. Possibly sick, so that was the right thing.

 

[herbu]

Right. The CCI shotshells are what I used last summer. Got the 45acp because of higher shot-count than the others. Two things I don't like about them:
1) They say DO NOT shoot in a revolver, so even w/ moon clips cannot use. (It seems the plastic cup can foul the space between cylinder and barrel.)
2) They don't cycle in an autoloader.

So last summer I kept one Kimber 1911 with one CCI shotshell in the mag. Rack the slide, have one shot. Then have to manually pick the brass out of the chamber and load another for a second shot. Would be a lot easier if you could use them in a revolver. BUT, those 2 disadvantages give me enough excuse to think about another gun.

 

[j_garcia]

The cases are aluminum AFAIK, and they did extract in my M&P, just not reliably. We've also tried them in the .38SPL revolver without issue, though now I have the ammo and no revolver I'm considering picking up a new S&W Model 66. I didn't want to shoot that stuff in my 1911.

 

[slipperybidness]

I have considered one of these for a snake gun around the house. The thing I wondered about is shot spread w/ a rifled barrel, even at close range. Have you played around with regular shotshells at 6-10' to see what the spread is? I suppose there is some sweet spot where a regular load of #8s will give you good coverage in about a 12" circle. That would seem to be pretty good for snakes. (I say #8s because that's what I load for sporting clays, so that's what I readily have.)

(Funny... while I was writing this, my wife saw a racoon ON THE PORCH eating out of the bird feeders. It is the middle of the morning and sunny. The bandit didn't look rabid, but middle of the day on the porch is very unusual behavior. A .22lr took care of it.)

Your best bet is to go watch some Youtube vids on the Judge, there are plenty out there that will answer your questions.

But, yes, the Judge as a snake gun is one of its highlights.