Time to buy a gun ... again

[j_garcia]

As for getting something for your wife, keep in mind her physical capabilities and skill level. Lighter guns are harder to control, and some styles of autos including Glocks are well known for "limp wresting" jams. No way I would give a Glock .40 to my wife. If it will not be carried, a mid size revolver may fit her hand better (womens models like lady smith especially) and they are far more tolerant of lower skilled users. Other auto's like a classic Sig 229 might be heavier than a Glock, but they can also be more tolerant. Still not as simple as a revolver.

If she is a novice, I would lean toward a .357 revolver, and start her off with .38 special rounds. You can then move up to more powerful +P .38's before going to .357 and .357 +P all in the same gun. If she is not comfortable with the increased recoil you can always stick with one of the lighter loads.

She is perfectly competent and not afraid of guns at all, so I don't think we'll have an issue there Her dad came to visit for a week and the first thing they did was go to the range (he is ex-military and introduced all the kids to guns early and properly).

For home defense, we have the shotgun and rifles. In the area we are moving to, very rural unincorporated, like Paradigm Dawg said in his thread, gun ownership is assumed there. It isn't a question of whether or not, just what you're packing I've fired my buddy's .357 and .44 mags and that is overkill for home/personal defense IMO, but a lot of fun at the range .40 should be about right.

 

[billy p]

Okay so I'm Canadian so please excuse me...GUNS..we're talking about guns...GMAB...

 

[James NM]

Sorry Jerry, but lots of bad info here.

In no instance do revolvers and semi-auto's use the same round. The difference in the loading mechanism requires a different shape.

Actually, this is quite common. I currently own or recently owned S&W revolvers chambered in 9mm (Model 940), 10mm (Model 610), and 45acp (Model 625). Of these, the S&W Model 625 is especially popular, and one of Smiths best selling revolver models.

The 610 is one of my personal favorites. The 10mm is roughly equivalent ballistically to the 41 Mag. But the 610 also shoots 40 S&W (just like a 357 Mag also shoots 38 specials).

Glocks tend to have large handles and can be difficult for people with small hands.

Most Glocks are double stack models, which by design necessitate a fairly thick grip. But these are no thicker than lots of other double stack models by other manufacturers, especially metal framed guns like the Beretta 92/M9 (which is military issue), or the Sig double stack models like the P226 or P229. Additionally, Glock makes single stack models that are significantly thinner than the mentioned Sigs and Beretta.

Finally, remember that longer barrels kick harder (again at a given weight / munition) because the bullet spends longer in the barrel with the charge applying pressure.

Just the opposite is true. You can find a good old 1911 chambered in 45acp in several different barrel lengths. The 3" barreled gun kicks more (and has more muzzle blast) than the 4' gun, which kicks more than the 5" gun, which kicks more than the 6" gun. All things being equal, the longer barrel (and slide) cause the gun to weigh more, which translates to less felt recoil (as you also stated).

.45 is a great man stopper if there are no obstructions: but it's a slow round with a lot of drop at distance and a tendency to be blocked / deflected by minor obstructions. If you are thinking Glock and have no trouble finding the rounds: you might consider the .45GAP over the .45ACP.

A fast small bullet is much more susceptible to deflection than a slow large bullet. Forget the 45 GAP. It is the answer to a question/problem that no one asked. That is why it will soon be obsolete. It's currently very difficult to find guns and especially 45 Gap ammo.

The 10mm and .50 rounds are obviously terrific at killing things: but do kick hard, and require large weapons to hold a significant number of rounds.

The 10mm is nothing more than an elongated 40 S&W case with more powder. Revolvers and semi-auto guns chambered in 10mm are basically no larger and have the same round capacity as other guns chambered in major hand gun calibers.

If this is not a self-defense weapon: consider a .22 or .25

The 25acp is a terrible choice if it is not a self defense gun (or actually, even if it is). 25acp ammo is very hard to find, actually more expensive than 9mm, and no more effective in a self defense situation than 22 Long Rifle.

But there is also some good advice in your post. Avoiding light weight guns because of punishing recoil and renting different guns (try before you buy) are both good ideas.

 

[majorloser]

Thanks James!

You saved me from having to straighten out the matter myself


This is how a revolver can use rimless cartridges. They're called "moon clips"

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Mike,

If she is a beginner at shooting then you most certainly should be getting her a revolver. They fire when you pull the trigger and they never jam. No way I would ever recommend getting a new shooter an auto pistol. That said there really is no choice but to get a .357 for several reasons.

First, while she is learning you can shoot .38's out of it. Second, once she is used to it you can slowly move up to full power .357 loads. Third, out of all the pistol rounds the .357 with a 125 gr jacketed hollow points has the fastest one shot kill time and delivers almost all of its energy into the target. Even with full power loads the .357 is still not unpleasant for woman to shoot. If you get a model that has a ported barrel system then all the better.

There are several good revolvers to choose from that won't break the bank either. Ruger and Taurus both make excellent guns. Smith and Wesson would be my third choice.

 

[Shock]

I hope one day I have a wife that won't castrate me if I bought her a gun as a present.

 

[jostenmeat]

I don't know diddly squat about guns, but when this topic comes up between friends and I, I often hear the pros of getting a shotgun as far as in home defense is concerned. Firstly, everyone knows the sound of a shotgun being chambered. Secondly, there isn't the risk involved with a different high powered bullet that may go through your wall, into a neighbor's wall, and killing an innocent bystander. Or so I've been told. But, if you're nearest neighbor lives far away, then obviously it's not quite the concern. If this weapon is meant for her to carry on her body, well then obviously this is not a good idea.

 

[Nemo128]

If you want a zero maintenence option, I suggest a Planet Eclipse Etek3 LT with an APE OLED board. If you want a smoother shot with less kick and more efficiency, a Vanguard Creed. Back up either one with a Crossfire Stealth 4500CI HPA tank.

Oh... actual firearms... sorry.

 

[walter duque]

i'm also looking at a walther automatic pistol ... for myself "for show"

I just love my PPKS, and I do have the S to go with it.

 

[mike c]

oh, i didn't know taurus was "ranked" higher than s&w ... i didn't recognize the brand when my gunrunner offered it ... will look into it.

is a shotgun hard to "chamber"?

all my home walls are concrete including 3.4M high perimeter walls

 

[Seth=L]

So you live in a fortress?

 

[mike c]

So you live in a fortress?

i forgot to do a moat around the walls and a drawbridge for a gate ... but yeah ... it's a shitty place i live in

dogs at the rear, guards up front

 

[Tarub]

 

[bandphan]

really btw I use SA, the women use revolver. So you think pulling that hammer back is the same as with a SA Your arrogant ... and finger strong

 

[bandphan]

oh, i didn't know taurus was "ranked" higher than s&w ... i didn't recognize the brand when my gunrunner offered it ... will look into it.

is a shotgun hard to "chamber"?

all my home walls are concrete including 3.4M high perimeter walls

Not really, but thats why I linked shot shells. The BB spray helps with the no brainer aim and works well with moving targets in the home

 

[Patrukas777]

Since the firearm will be for home defense, I would get a good point and shoot firearm. I'll explain what I mean by that..If she doesn't have much experience with a handgun, then I would buy a firearm that has a safety on the trigger (Like a Glock)...there are many different sizes of handles in Glock, as well as many upgrades. The great thing about the getting her a glock would be in the case she had to use it, she wouldn't have to think about taking off the safety...nothing worse then when the moment comes to pull the trigger on something and you attempt at pull of the trigger to find out the safety is on...very scary feeling. With a Glock, she could point the weapon at the target and shoot.

Some other things to consider are:

1. If you go with a revolver..go with a revolver that is hammerless. Since the firearm arm would be used in a home (close courters) you would want a hammerless...should the intruder grab onto the weapon, he would have a harder time stopping the firearm from shooting (yes, I know there are other ways...just one way less). With a hammer, an intruder could grab onto the hammer, preventing it from striking the primer.

2. Have you considered a shotgun...I think a shotgun is great for the simple reason all she would have to do is point it in the direction of the intruder and the target will be hit. Shotguns don't require as much technique to hit targets as do handguns IMO.

Like others have said, take her to a gun range where she can try multiple firearms and find out what is comfortable for her. Just like getting a pair of speakers, there are different guns for different people.

Whatever you two decide, make sure she at least takes a basic firearms course. Those are great for firearm safety.

Hope that helps a little bit.

 

[m-fine]

Shotguns are not hard to chamber, but I think it is incredibly stupid to keep one empty to you can try to scare someone off with the sound. You are far more likely to be surprised than the intruder, who probably knows you are home. You want to be able to go from recognition to shot fired as quickly and simply as possible. That means no racking slides or complicated safety systems while you are dealing with surprise, adrenaline overload, and very little time.

Another issue with shotguns is spread. If I lived alone, it would be a plus, but with other family members who could be near the intruder, I want precision within 20 cm or less, including gun and skill. If a shotgun is choked enough to allow you to hit only the intended target, the spread won't do much to improve your chances of hitting them. The longer profile does make it much easier to aim though. That brings up the possibility of a pistol caliber carbine which I would take over a shotgun just about any day. There are many that are easy to shoot with low recoil and with much more ammo capacity that a shotgun.

As for .22 for defense, I would strongly recommend against it. It would be an OK choice for a murder weapon where you choose the situation and you can make sure you can place your shot in a lethal area. For defense, if the attacker is armed, a lethal wound that will kill him in 2-3 minutes isn't going to do you any good. You need to stop him almost instantly. 9mm has proven inadequate in a number of police shootings where a suspect was hit multiple times and still able to return fire before being killed or subdued. .22 is far far worse. Baring a hit to the heart, sinal column, or brain, you are just going to make the guy angry. When I was in college a guy tried to rob a pizza delivery kid and shot him in the chest with a .22. The kid grabbed the .22 from his attacker and beat the hell out of him with it before calling 911. Even .357, .40, and .45's can fail to stop someone instantly when adrenine and or drugs are involved, but your odds are much better than with smaller calibers.

 

[highfigh]

Or maybe a .22 LR revolver. The can make things just as dead plus you can shoot things cheaper. Can be had used for under 100$ + cheap ammo.

But if the attacker is full of coke, Meth, etc, a .22 will just piss them off.

 

[JerryLove]

The FBI developed the .40 S&W with it's namesake to specifically adresses the shortcomings of 9mm (too weak), 10mm (penetration), and .45 (lower mag capacity) for law enforcement purposes.

There's more to that story.

The FBI field tested 10mm with modified 1911's. The 1911 was designed for the low-pressure .45 and had a tendency to catastrophically malfunction. As a result, the 10mm got an undeserved reputation as unreliable.

Among fans of the 10mm, the "SW" in .40 S&W is referred to as "short and weak"... but I believe it's an excellent round and Law Enforcement around much of the world seems to agree.

and some styles of autos including Glocks are well known for "limp wresting" jams.

I've never experienced that on my Glock 23 and I've even tried (holding the weapon by pinching with two fingers and then pulling the tribber by pulling with two more).

It may, however, be model specific. Perhaps a longer slide and less powerful round would make it more likely.

It is, in my experience, the most reliable firearm I've ever worked with.

.22s work great for in home defense for several reasons. They are small, they're accurate, they're quiet, and they kill just as good as anything else.

I could not disagree more. The .22 is a great hunting weapon for small game, and works well as a people-killer if you shoot them at close range in the head. It is awful as a man-stopper under any other conditions. There's very little system shock, the actual affected area is small, at even moderate range they deflect easily off large bones. There's a reason no police and no military use them.

 

[JerryLove]

really btw I use SA, the women use revolver. So you think pulling that hammer back is the same as with a SA Your arrogant ... and finger strong

I don't think anything. I know for a fact that there is more range within either style of weapon than there is difference between them.

A single-action pull from either a revolver or s.a. is generally a very light pull.
A double-action pull from either is dependent on the weight of the hammer-spring and ratio of the pull.

In both cases, it is modifiable (can be made harder)

As an example: when the NYPD first moved over to Glocks, they had problems with accidental fire. Officers used to the hard pull of the .44 revolver they had been using were pulling the trigger on the Glock in "excited moments" without realizing it.

The response? They increased the resistance on the Glocks used by the NYPD. Gunsmiths refer to it as a "New York Pull" and you can still have the same modification done to yours.

As an interesting side-note: the Glock has a pull which is neither single nor double action: the firing pin is pulled to half-meat when a round is chambered, and returns to half-meat after each shot. It results in a moderate but not heavy trigger pull (again, it can be made heavier with a spring) that is consistent between the first shot and later shots.

Personally: I also enjoy that I can tell the ready-to-fire-ness of the weapon from the trigger position.

But if the attacker is full of coke, Meth, etc, a .22 will just piss them off.

They likely won't realize they are shot.

It's a mistake to use a firearm for pain compliance. Any hunter can tell you of putting large-caliber rounds right through a deer's heart and then watching it sprint a quarter-mile before falling. A determined attacker will only be brought down immediately by destruction of part of the CNS (spine, certain parts of the brain, etc), or by destruction of critical structure (break the pelvis or leg). Otherwise there's time between even the most fatal of wounds and when the other guy actually becomes unable to hurt you back.