Time for a new Subwoofer

Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
My small but mighty PB-3000 has finally boomed it's last note. Last time I will shop a facebook bargain, never got receipt so no warranty.

Room size: 14x18 aprox. (WxL) w/9ft ceilings
Budget: ~ $1,500 but I have some flexibility
I would prefer 12" Sub, not looking for it to take up a huge footprint

Considerations: (Below Budget)
  • RSL 12S - Easy on the pocket, seems like a good sub for music
  • SB-3000 - Found one in my area w/4 years left on warranty Gloss black to match my REVEL $700

Considerations: (Budget)
  • I can get Dealer Demo SVS SB-4000 for $1400 shipped (no tax) - Gloss Black w/full warranty
  • Rythmik E15HP2 black matte finish with HX1000XLR3 Hypex amplifier and black cone driver
  • Paradigm Defiance 12
Open to suggestions, the SB-4000 is a really good deal, but I don't think I need that much sub. Music is a vast majority of what I will listen to, so I am wondering if I really need to spend that much to get a musical sub.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Don't believe in the "musical" sub thing myself, not even sure wtf it means. First question, no room for duals? No need as only satisfying one seat and current placement works for that?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
LOL. You mean external amp/dsp?
Yep. :D

Externally powered subs.

No matter how expensive the internally powered sub is (even $5K subs), that built-in amp is always at higher risk of dying compared to external power IMO.

Or just get a cheap $500 powered sub and throw it away when the internal amp dies. :D
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
Don't believe in the "musical" sub thing myself, not even sure wtf it means. First question, no room for duals? No need as only satisfying one seat and current placement works for that?
I understand your point, I owned bad subwoofers (i.e. GoldenEar Forcefield Series), and I am looking for a sub that provides tight accurate bass, not worried about subsonic levels that I like in Home Theater. The Forefield was crap. I have not been a fan of ported subs in the past, but will consider all options at this point. I don't think I need to do 2 subs at this point because room is not that large and it's basically a loveseat sized listening position.
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I understand your point, I owned bad subwoofers (i.e. GoldenEar Forcefield Series), and I am looking for a sub that provides tight accurate bass, not worried about subsonic levels that I like in Home Theater. The Forefield was crap. I have not been a fan of ported subs in the past, but will consider all options at this point. I don't think I need to do 2 subs at this point because room is not that larger and it's basically a loveseat sized listening position.
The smaller the room, the worse the modes will affect the response. You should measure the response, it might be affecting the sound more than you realize.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
The smaller the room, the worse the modes will affect the response. You should measure the response, it might be affecting the sound more than you realize.
I have a Umik-1. It also why I am considering the Paradigm X12 as I am comfortable using ARC. I spent a while tweaking the room with the 40n and speaker positioning as it has no room correction software.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
My small but mighty PB-3000 has finally boomed it's last note. Last time I will shop a facebook bargain, never got receipt so no warranty.

Room size: 14x18 aprox. (WxL) w/9ft ceilings
Budget: ~ $1,500 but I have some flexibility
I would prefer 12" Sub, not looking for it to take up a huge footprint

Considerations: (Below Budget)
  • RSL 12S - Easy on the pocket, seems like a good sub for music
  • SB-3000 - Found one in my area w/4 years left on warranty Gloss black to match my REVEL $700

Considerations: (Budget)
  • I can get Dealer Demo SVS SB-4000 for $1400 shipped (no tax) - Gloss Black w/full warranty
  • Rythmik E15HP2 black matte finish with HX1000XLR3 Hypex amplifier and black cone driver
  • Paradigm Defiance 12
Open to suggestions, the SB-4000 is a really good deal, but I don't think I need that much sub. Music is a vast majority of what I will listen to, so I am wondering if I really need to spend that much to get a musical sub.
All I know are good subs and bad subs and a lot in between. I don't think you design a sub specifically for music. I know I don't.

What I don't understand is why you don't just replace the amp of that sub. As far as I can tell it is ported, so you can use just about any amp, including putting speaker terminals on it and using an external amp. If you are happy with that sub, then that is your cheapest solution.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
The internet is full of misinformation, which is why I come here to ask these questions.

Quote from SVS on Sealed Subs
"Sealed cabinet subwoofers are generally more accurate in frequency response and better at rendering instrumentals in a convincing way"

I just watched Gene's video on sealed vs ported, so it's just a process of education for me. It reinforces your point above. I would prefer a sealed subwoofer because it typically takes less real estate, for a room this size.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The internet is full of misinformation, which is why I come here to ask these questions.

Quote from SVS on Sealed Subs
"Sealed cabinet subwoofers are generally more accurate in frequency response and better at rendering instrumentals in a convincing way"

I just watched Gene's video on sealed vs ported, so it's just a process of education for me. It reinforces your point above. I would prefer a sealed subwoofer because it typically takes less real estate, for a room this size.
SVS quote is marketing gibberish, and I would wager their engineering guys wouldn't share that opinion.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The internet is full of misinformation, which is why I come here to ask these questions.

Quote from SVS on Sealed Subs
"Sealed cabinet subwoofers are generally more accurate in frequency response and better at rendering instrumentals in a convincing way"

I just watched Gene's video on sealed vs ported, so it's just a process of education for me. It reinforces your point above. I would prefer a sealed subwoofer because it typically takes less real estate, for a room this size.
That is nonsense. The only reason for a sealed sub is a smaller box. They require a huge boost of power below the native F3, which results in significant distortion.
To make a really good sealed sub is a very expensive proposition. A ported sub delivers far better value for money. The price goes up, because you need a driver with a huge motor system to take the power, and a much more powerful amplifier.

If you like the sub you have, then replace the amp.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
SVS quote is marketing gibberish, and I would wager their engineering guys wouldn't share that opinion.
I sure wish they’d quit this. I see guys quoting it all over and it’s nonsense. Just catering to the tighter faster accurate blah blah blah guys who can’t let go of that. At least Cos is asking first. Sealed might fit the application better, but not because of any truth in their quote.
I think they’d replace the amp anyway, possibly out of warranty even. Or sell him one cheap.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
I sure wish they’d quit this. I see guys quoting it all over and it’s nonsense. Just catering to the tighter faster accurate blah blah blah guys who can’t let go of that. At least Cos is asking first. Sealed might fit the application better, but not because of any truth in their quote.
I think they’d replace the amp anyway, possibly out of warranty even. Or sell him one cheap.
Thanks, going to call and find out. Last time I use Facebook marketplace to buy a sub, price was too good to pass up for a reason lol.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks, going to call and find out. Last time I use Facebook marketplace to buy a sub, price was too good to pass up for a reason lol.
Well yeah, the used market can be interesting for sure lol. I do know svs has replaced a LOT of amps, and I think they’ll try to minimize the damage so to speak. If you’re really just dying for a new sub, and sealed is the only thing that fits the location, the sb3000 is their best value. I wouldn’t even consider the 4000 series personally(or honestly any svs these days. Just a personal opinion although I am an owner). Also, if you’re ok with the rsl, it’s absolutely worth a spin. IMO, it seems fantastic. @shadyJ can possibly comment. I think he liked the x12 you mentioned as well.
Job one would definitely be a call to svs, or actually email Ed Mullen directly.
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
The RSL 12s is a solid choice but pretty large. The HSU ULS-15 for a sealed would be my choice. I had the SVS SB 4000, but felt it’s mid bass performance wasn’t on par with its deep extension.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
The RSL 12s is a solid choice but pretty large. The HSU ULS-15 for a sealed would be my choice. I had the SVS SB 4000, but felt it’s mid bass performance wasn’t on par with its deep extension.
How much difference the RSL and shoe dimensionally? I could look but…
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I think the HSU is an 18” cube basically, the RSL is around 22” deep, 22 h and 18 w. Its almost the same size as my 18” PSA sub.
Wuuuuuut??? Didn’t know you had a PSA too! How’d I miss that?
 
K

Kleinst

Senior Audioholic
All I know are good subs and bad subs and a lot in between. I don't think you design a sub specifically for music. I know I don't.

What I don't understand is why you don't just replace the amp of that sub. As far as I can tell it is ported, so you can use just about any amp, including putting speaker terminals on it and using an external amp. If you are happy with that sub, then that is your cheapest solution.
I agree, have you asked what a replacement amp for the PB-3000 would be from SVS? If that was working well for you, that might not be a bad choice at all (unless it's unreasonable). I have dual PB-1000's I actually use in a bedroom that I got used and they just really work well in there. I will first look to replace their amp when one of them goes if it's not more than a few hundred.
 
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