Time for a NEW SUB!!! SVS vs. Velodyne

[FloridaDude007]

Hello everyone,

Last sub I had was the Velodyne VA1250X,
had a 12 inch front and 15 inch passive on bottom.
paid about $600 for it and loved it, had it almost 10 years and I guess the amp finally gave out after we had an unusual power spike.

Called Velodyne and they will replace the amp for about $200, but I hate to repair things like this so I am looking for options.

I have narrowed it down to two brands:

SVS vs. Velodyne.

This is the current Velodyne I am considering:

Velodyne DLS-5000R 15" includes a Remote
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_3/velodyne-dls-5000r-subwoofer-9-2005-part-1.html

This is an $800 sub and I can get that model for 590.00 on gray market locally. But they will only give me 1 year warranty as opposed to authorized retailer warranty. I like the idea of a remote. No shipping cost.

These are the closest subs I can find to
that price in the SVS product line...

PB12-NSD Box for $569 plus S&H
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

New PC12-NSD Cylinder for $569 plus S&H
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_nsd.cfm

They are also offering the older
25-31PCi for $499.

Never heard of SVS until recently but I like the reviews. Also 3 year warranty.

Decisions, decisions... how do you think these will compare?

 

[Chopin_Guy]

The subject of Velodyne vs. SVS has come up many-a-time around here...and I will give you my own thoughts and suggestions on the matter...

First off you didn't state what exactly your usage is---HT vs Music Listening. I will go with the assumption that the lean is towards home theather as is generally the case...

MikeC, a very experienced forum member here, did a write up on the DLS and possibly the NSD as well if my memory serves me correctly...do a search and the thread title is 'MikeC's sub impressions' I think.

In any event, the Velodyne's response roles off rather quickly in the lower portion of FR which is not so desirable for HT use if you want real pressence and reproduction of effects. The SVS (either model suggested) will go lower than the Velodyne...

From my experience I went from a SPL-1500r to a 16-46 PC + and the PC+ played insanely low but was not quite to my liking when it came to music--didn't have the control that the sealed SPL had (IMO). Then I went up to the PB13 ultra and have not looked back...that sub is outstanding in every regard....

There are several owners of the PB12-NSD on this forum that have been extremely happy with their subs. I would contact the SVS customer service as they will not steer you wrong with deciding between the PB and PC. Although, the general comment is, if you have the space for the box verison--go with that...

Hope this helps, and enjoy your new sub...

 

[GlocksRock]

I used to have the 10" Velodyne DSL-R model, and it was nice, but I went from that to the 20-39 PC+ and it was a night and day difference, but I know with the 15" version, that will be a big difference. I think you will get better sound quality out of the SVS, but the velodyne may be louder. I also didn't really care about the DSP modes on the velodyne either, but if you do get it, I think the classical setting seems to be the flattest. I would personally go with the SVS, either one of them will suit you well. I know they gave the new NSD cylinders a deeper tune, but the older PCi will still have plenty of output, and play plenty low. Plus you just can't beat SVS for customer service.

 

[FloridaDude007]

Sorry guys, yes it's mostly for HT use.
I will search more here, I am curious about the cylinder vs. box designs.

I know and trust Velodyne. A little nervous about the SVS brand, but I have to admit the reviews on the net are impressive. I wish they had a dealer here in Florida so I could listen to the SVS.

I guess if either of these perfrom to the level of my old Velodyne I would be happy, that servo system really provided a lot of bass with little distortion. The one thing I always wish it had was a remote, because with different DVD's I found it necessary to get up and adjust it after the movie started.
I don't think the SVS models come with remotes...

 

[Adam]

The other guys gave great info, but I'll throw in my impressions as an SVS owner, too. I love mine. Love it. I've never owned a Velodyne, and I've heard great things about them, but I don't think that you'll be disappointed in the SVS. If you are, you just send it back to them. You do have to pay for the shipping, though, so there is some risk there - although they sometimes have no-risk trials with free shipping.

I picked a cylinder because floor space was more important to me than height. The cylinders also weigh less (so, cost less to ship and easier to move) and perform pretty much the same as their box counterparts.

I've been very happy and impressed with SVS' customer service. I understand being nervous about ordering a large ticket item like this from someplace that's new to you. I gained enough confidence from reading reviews of them and from their customer service (e-mails back and forth) to give them a chance, and I'm glad that I did. It took me a year or two to decide which model to get, but when they announced the new Ultras in early 2007, I knew it was time!

 

[FloridaDude007]

Can anyone direct me to a comprehensive review of the PB12-NSD?
Most of the reviews I am reading online are for other models or older units.

 

[tn001d]

How about 2 SVS PB-10NSD's ? That will out perform a single PB-12NSD

 

[FloridaDude007]

This is the thing that makes me nervous about buying a sub over the internet... if you get a defective sub you can still end up paying the shipping both ways, to me that sucks. This guy says he got a defective unit from SVS and they gave him a refund but the experience cost him a chunk in shipping...
http://forums.dvdfile.com/standard-definition-hardware/60243-svs-pb12-nsd-subwoofer.html

In the old days, (2 years ago) you could go into a nice specialty retailer locally and compare this stuff. Nowadays even Tweeter (Sound Advice) has gone out of business, and the big box stores are mostly selling lower end merchandise.

 

[Adam]

Paying shipping if you decide to return it is the risk that I mentioned. Unless SVS has changed their policy since 2007, you won't have to pay shipping if you get a replacement for a defective sub. My first Ultra had a potential problem, and SVS decided to ship me out a replacement (without me asking for it) at no cost. They sent me a prepaid return shipping label for my original sub.

 

[FloridaDude007]

How about 2 SVS PB-10NSD's ? That will out perform a single PB-12NSD

Well if everything I am hearing about the PB-12NSD is true, then that one should be plenty. I would assume at this point that it will outperform my original Velo and the newer Velo 5000R as well... of course, that is only an assumption at this point! I still can't seem to find a comprehensive review on it anywhere on the internet.

 

[mike c]

there are third party OBJECTIVE tests done on the PB12NSD (IMO, better than subjective reviews with no measurements)

complete index of subwoofer tests
http://www.avtalk.co.uk//showthread.php?t=12281
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/6015-index-subwoofer-tests-manufacturer-model.html

PB12NSD
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20780
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8151-svs-pb12-nsd.html

*the 5000R is the CHT-15R (also measured in the AVTALK index)

 

[FloridaDude007]

Thanks Mike,
and I did see those but I'm not too well versed in the chart graphics and I'm not as familiar with the gent named "Slartibartfast," so was hoping for a more comprehensive review from a known source, like something from Tom Nousaine or Johnson like this one below with both charts and words for the Velo 5000R. Do you know of a published review like the one below for the PB12NSD? I checked on the SVS site but can't seem to find one...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_3/velodyne-dls-5000r-subwoofer-9-2005-part-1.html

 

[mjbuoni]

I have dual SVS PB13 Ultra's and to me they define everything bass should be: quick and musical, deep and powerful, extremely clean at insanely loud levels, and beautiful flawless finishes on their enclosures. You just cannot go wrong with them.

 

[FloridaDude007]

I have dual SVS PB13 Ultra's and to me they define everything bass should be: quick and musical, deep and powerful, extremely clean at insanely loud levels, and beautiful flawless finishes on their enclosures. You just cannot go wrong with them.

Thank you but that's not the model I'm interested in.
It appears that there is no comprehensive, unbiased review online of the model I am looking at. This strikes me as kind of surprising since the PB12NSD seems to be a very popular unit.

 

[mike c]

Thanks Mike,
and I did see those but I'm not too well versed in the chart graphics and I'm not as familiar with the gent named "Slartibartfast," so was hoping for a more comprehensive review from a known source, like something from Tom Nousaine or Johnson like this one below with both charts and words for the Velo 5000R. Do you know of a published review like the one below for the PB12NSD? I checked on the SVS site but can't seem to find one...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_3/velodyne-dls-5000r-subwoofer-9-2005-part-1.html

Thank you but that's not the model I'm interested in.
It appears that there is no comprehensive, unbiased review online of the model I am looking at. This strikes me as kind of surprising since the PB12NSD seems to be a very popular unit.

unbiased and subjective is TOTALLY contradicting.

the measurements put out by AVTALK (slartibartfast) and Home Theater Shack (Ilkka) are very accurate and contains everything you need to know.

they were done in open fields unlike Nousaine and Johnson who did their measurements in room. (though i like reading all the reviews out there)

or did you want to hear flowery words like "orgasmically the greatest subwoofer ever"

 

[FloridaDude007]

LOL, well no, and I appreciate you telling me up front that you have a vested interest in SVS... it's just that I'm not really a technical guy when it comes to charts, (most consumers really aren't) so the measurements don't mean the same thing to me as they might to a more knowledgeable person. I never questioned the accuracy, I think charts are great, but as you mention even two charts can show different readings. That is a very good point about the room vs. open field, too.

Bottom line; I'm just looking for at least ONE comprehensive review on this product before I drop my hard earned cash on it, that's all. I understand you think the "12NSD will trample the 5000R in everything," but the SVS doesn't even have a remote so it would seem that both of these products have at least some strong points. If you can you give me a few more thoughts on how they compare I would appreciate it. Unlike some others you have at least heard both of the units---and that's really why I invited you to comment on this thread.

 

[mike c]

I think charts are great, but as you mention even two charts can show different readings.

actually, that's what's great between open field tests - they're the same even though AVTALK is in London and Ilkka is in Finland.

 

[Matt34]

LOL, well no, and I appreciate you telling me up front that you have a vested interest in SVS... it's just that I'm not really a technical guy when it comes to charts, (most consumers really aren't) so the measurements don't mean the same thing to me as they might to a more knowledgeable person. I never questioned the accuracy, I think charts are great, but as you mention even two charts can show different readings. That is a very good point about the room vs. open field, too.

Bottom line; I'm just looking for at least ONE comprehensive review on this product before I drop my hard earned cash on it, that's all. I understand you think the "12NSD will trample the 5000R in everything," but the SVS doesn't even have a remote so it would seem that both of these products have a least some strong points. If you can you give me a few more thoughts on how they compare I would appreciate it. Unlike some others you have at least heard both of the units---and that's really why I invited you to comment on this thread.

From those graphs that Mike posted you can see that the SVS goes deeper and has more output with less distortion, a remote isn't going to help with that. The Velodyne also shows over 20% THD(distortion) at 20hz which isn't a good thing at all.

 

[FloridaDude007]

From those graphs that Mike posted you can see that the SVS goes deeper and has more output with less distortion, a remote isn't going to help with that. The Velodyne also shows over 20% THD(distortion) at 20hz which isn't a good thing at all.

Gotcha, that's a good point. I wish I could look at those charts like you guys and just understand that better. When I look at the chart for distortion on the Velo, it appears that there are actually TWO charts for distortion, that in itself is confusing for a consumer like myself who has not purchased a sub in about a decade.

Nevertheless, I understand the SVS can go lower with less distortion. I have seen some user comments on various forums saying the 5000R is louder than the 12NSD in the common bass ranges. Would you say the SVS model can play louder than the Velo in the most common bass ranges or is the Velo going to be more robust in that area, or about the same?

Also, how do you guys think both of these units would compare to my old Velo (VA1250X) with the 12 inch front and 15 inch passive on the bottom? I really liked the way my old one made the bass roll across the floor and up the walls.

 

[mike c]

this is the chart you look at if you want to see output:

looks like the 5000R has about a half db more output at 55hz but 2-3db less at 30hz