Thoughts on Reaction Audio?

[theJman]

Yes, please inform us, I'm not a frequent lurker at AVS.

PSA and RA, have they both gotten to be unreliable or something?

PSA has been a top-flight company from the word go. They can't make product fast enough to satisfy demand, so there's never been an issue with those folks. RA, as you can tell from some of the other posts, is the current version of eD it seems. There's a lot of problems for them I'm afraid.

 

[fuzz092888]

PSA has been a top-flight company from the word go. They can't make product fast enough to satisfy demand, so there's never been an issue with those folks. RA, as you can tell from some of the other posts, is the current version of eD it seems. There's a lot of problems for them I'm afraid.

I thought it was interesting that Tom V came on and set some guys straight about how this does not really benefit him and the other ID companies. Great to hear from one of the actual other ID guys about it does more good for them to have RA succeed rather than fail.

 

[billy p]

I believe Tom extended some of his expertise in the early going to help RA with some start up solution.... unfortunately that relationship soured due to some shenanigans behind the scenes via PM and trying to lure customer away from PSA.

We can all agree that RA... failure or potential demise hurts the entire ID community as a whole just like TV alluded too.

 

[theJman]

We can all agree that RA... failure or potential demise hurts the entire ID community as a whole just like TV alluded too.

It probably does. There have now been a few ID companies who crashed and burned in a rather inglorious manner, some of whom have walked off with a lot of money that didn't belong to them. I would imagine a bit of splatter gets transferred to other companies, no matter how upstanding they may be.

 

[Defcon]

Charging customers upfront with a stated lead time of 2-4 weeks (which could end up being much longer) is a red flag and points to cash flow problems. I was thinking about an RA sub since they seemed to offer great value but I refuse to pay weeks in advance with no delivery date.

 

[Basshead81]

It's issue , as it seems solely based on AVS posts, RA delays lately became much, MUCH longer and Jeremy started to issues refund to multiple customers

Actually the delays have became so long +6 months that many started cancelling orders and had to file charge backs to get refunds. This has been going on for quite some time under the radar. Maybe RA can hire Shady to dig them out of the hole they are in. lol

 

[KEW]

Yes, please inform us, I'm not a frequent lurker at AVS.

PSA and RA, have they both gotten to be unreliable or something?

PSA should have never been mentioned.
ShadyJ seems like a good guy when PSA is not in the discussion, but his inexplicable hatred for Tom V and PSA means he has to take a cheap shot any chance he gets.
It doesn't help that my PSA XS15se's are the best subs I have heard for music (my Rythmiks have a little edge for HT, but not for music) making them an outstanding value.

Edit: I always hate it when people say "best I have heard" without saying what else they have heard...mainstream subs that I have heard are SVS SB12 Plus, PC-12, JL Audio E112, and Rythmik E15HP. Not that many, but the Rythmik and the PSA have distinguished themselves in my book as providing great sound for music without getting muddy or boomy (leaning towards the car subwoofer sound). The difference between the Rythmik and PSA vs the others I have listed is huge to my ear. The $$$ sealed JL Audios were a tremendous disappointment!

 

[lovinthehd]

Apparently Jeremy has shut down the site's ordering capabilities until they're able to ship stock product, and is still refunding some customers thru July.

 

[KEW]

I dunno. I made the leap of faith on 2 of the new 1400 watt Gamma 18s for the 2 channel rig. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

DJ

Hey DJ,
That was 3/5/16.
Sorry to notice that you got mired in this quagmire before it became obvious quagmire!
How are things sitting today?
They seem to be good subs if you can get them, but this has to raise questions about RA's long term health and support should you have issues.

 

[shadyJ]

PSA should have never been mentioned.
ShadyJ seems like a good guy when PSA is not in the discussion, but his inexplicable hatred for Tom V and PSA means he has to take a cheap shot any chance he gets.
It doesn't help that my PSA XS15se's are the best subs I have heard for music (my Rythmiks have a little edge for HT, but not for music) making them an outstanding value.

Hatred is definitely overstating what I think about Tom or PSA, and it is certainly not inexplicable if you have seen what I have. Another thing, if you want to make your subs "musical", whatever brand they are, just put a shallow slope high pass filter on them, then you have the best sub for music that you have ever heard. Also, add some even order harmonic distortion, now you have a really 'musical' subwoofer. Nowadays when people call a subwoofer 'musical', for me that raises a red flag as far as performance goes.

 

[KEW]

and it is certainly not inexplicable if you have seen what I have.

That condition has not yet been met, thus, it remains inexplicable for the rest of us.
No one else seems to share your perspective.
What is your justification for grouping PSA with RA in this thread? Certainly we have not seen signs of insolvency or inability to fulfill orders from PSA!
Surely you understand that "Because I say so" is a poor way to convince the audio world that PSA is an inferior business.

 

[shadyJ]

What is your justification for grouping PSA with RA in this thread?

The grouping is businesses that come up short on integrity. If you want to know why, the short version is when I called PSA out on inflating CEA-2010 measurements for their products, the company rep for PSA (we will call him "Tom") decided to launch a smear campaign against me instead conceding the point or even trying to offer a cogent argument against me. From my experience, PSA as a business has exhibited a low character.

 

[theJman]

Hatred is definitely overstating what I think about Tom or PSA, and it is certainly not inexplicable if you have seen what I have.

You mean understating, don't you? Everyone who knows your posting history would certainly disagree with the assessment that your bias and vendetta against PSA is the least bit understated. You make it painfully clear how much you despise the company. To that there is no doubt.

If you want to know why, the short version is when I called PSA out on inflating CEA-2010 measurements for their products

What did you use to established this alleged measurement infraction? It's possible they never "coincided" the point because it simply doesn't exist.

 

[shadyJ]

You mean understating, don't you? Everyone who knows your posting history would certainly disagree with the assessment that your bias and vendetta against PSA is the least bit understated. You make it painfully clear how much you despise the company. To that there is no doubt.

I definitely don't like the company, but I don't really care the matter a great deal. However, it's easy enough to call them out on their BS, so I do. If you want to see vitriol, you should see some of the replies I have received, and especially some of the PMs. Some really nasty stuff. I have never felt strongly enough about the matter to stoop anywhere near the level of some of the mean-spirited stuff that was directed to me and about me.

What did you use to established this alleged measurement infraction? It's possible they never "coincided" the point because it simply doesn't exist.

CEA-2010 measurements are not very well understood, and PSA has used this to their advantage. Their comparison charts on their product pages are very misleading. Compare any of their own measurements with the third-party measurements made from that some product. Their measurements are always higher, and what's worse, they use measurements made from other testers of competing products, and then compare their measurements out to a tenth of a decibel as a percentage. If you understood CEA-2010 testing, you would know it is in no way precise enough to do that, and you would know how badly it skews the comparison in PSA's favor. Their charts are a bunch of lies.

 

[Defcon]

PSA absolutely doesn't belong in this thread -

1. its a thread on RA, not the state of the audio industry, integrity etc
2. A company not shipping orders for 6 months after charging for it and not issuing refunds is a FAR different matter than nitpicking about measurements, methodology etc. I mean its not even in the same universe and trying to conflate the 2 issues is really not acceptable.
3. shadyJ I hope even you will acknowledge that PSA provides great customer service. I am not a customer, I have no skin in this game but credit where its due. It doesn't matter if their quoted figures are a bit off or not, we can argue all day about this, its not relevant to their customer service.

The RA threads on AVS have become painful to read, lots of bad blood on both sides. I hope the company can turn things around and pull through. Frankly, SVS and PSA are shining examples of great customer service and how to run an ID business, and to no one's surprise both are successful.

 

[rojo]

Let me interject a quick parenthetical here. I've read shadyJ's negative views on PSA before. To phrase my stance on the matter tactfully, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing more evidence supporting shadyJ's claims, but I do hold a warm regard for Tom V. for his knowledge and his generosity in offering advice.

But I want to say that I admire shadyJ. As far as I can tell he always states his position without insulting those who disagree with him. He is oblivious to dings against his reputation, and his conviction never wavers. His arguments are always articulate and civil, and I don't think he deserves the mob downvotes he sometimes receives when someone asks for his opinion and he gives it. He gives it knowing it will be unpopular and knowing he'll be earning negative rep for it, but he gives the people what they asked for nonetheless.

 

[theJman]

I definitely don't like the company, but I don't really care the matter a great deal. However, it's easy enough to call them out on their BS, so I do. If you want to see vitriol, you should see some of the replies I have received, and especially some of the PMs. Some really nasty stuff. I have never felt strongly enough about the matter to stoop anywhere near the level of some of the mean-spirited stuff that was directed to me and about me.

I don't know what the content of the PM's are that you've received, but given how frequently you attempt to trash PSA - and how devoid of reality your posts regarding them truly are - my guess is they've probably been warranted. You reap what you sow; talk crap, get crap.

CEA-2010 measurements are not very well understood, and PSA has used this to their advantage. Their comparison charts on their product pages are very misleading. Compare any of their own measurements with the third-party measurements made from that some product. Their measurements are always higher, and what's worse, they use measurements made from other testers of competing products, and then compare their measurements out to a tenth of a decibel as a percentage. If you understood CEA-2010 testing, you would know it is in no way precise enough to do that, and you would know how badly it skews the comparison in PSA's favor. Their charts are a bunch of lies.

Assuming I don't understand CEA-2010 testing is ignorance at its most visible. To be completely honest, I think there's far too much emphasis given on what's essentially a flawed methodology. Yes, it provides a baseline for a few aspects of performance, but is it accurate enough for everyone to use as the gold standard? No. Its primary component is total output, and in the process it glosses over far too many other aspects. In spite of that, you have nothing quantifiable to legitimately assert PSA's charts are a "bunch of lies". That's nothing more than BS from someone with an axe to grind.

 

[rojo]

I don't know what the content of the PM's are that you've received, but given how frequently you attempt to trash PSA - and how devoid of reality your posts regarding them truly are - my guess is they've probably been warranted. You reap what you sow; talk crap, get crap.




Assuming I don't understand CEA-2010 testing is ignorance at its most visible. To be completely honest, I think there's far too much emphasis given on what's essentially a flawed methodology. Yes, it provides a baseline for a few aspects of performance, but is it accurate enough for everyone to use as the gold standard? No. Its primary component is total output, and in the process it glosses over far too many other aspects. In spite of that, you have nothing quantifiable to legitimately assert PSA's charts are a "bunch of lies". That's nothing more than BS from someone with an axe to grind.

Well, more specifically, CEA-2010 provides total output at tiered frequencies within acceptable thresholds of harmonic distortion. With it, one can get a general idea of how a sub will play at moderate listening volumes, whether the sub will have enough output to fill a large room, hints of the symmetry of the driver's BL(x), and whether it'll be capable of reproducing "War Of the Worlds" or the Drum and Bass streams on Soundcloud. True that it doesn't indicate problems such as ringing impulse from cabinet resonance. But if it were the gold standard for published specs, would that be such a bad thing? Comparing subs from different companies would certainly be at least somewhat easier than it is now. CEA-2010 is miles ahead of the antiquated practice of reporting basic frequency response -3dB. It's not perfect, but neither is it useless.

 

[Defcon]

I also wanted to add that I too admire shadyJ for his technical knowledge and his willingness to help, we all have our opinions and biases and I am not going to judge others.

I don't know or care enough about CEA-2010. What I do know is there is no standardized measurement for subwoofers. I mean at least everyone is willing to talk in terms of extension/SPL which is a big deal, since when it comes to speakers there's a camp that says data is useless, just listen and decide

Pick one measurement and have everyone do it. Right now its data-bass since Ricci is above reproach. Oem's like HSU publish figures taken at 1m when everyone else does at 2m, some use CEA, some don't, the whole thing is a mess. I can't fault Tom V for his charts, they are better than nothing and no one has shown they are wrong.

 

[KEW]

My problem is that right now, I believe PSA is the best value in a high performance sub for music. I feel it is a disservice for one of our most active members on the sub forum to tell visitors that PSA are among the worst subs because of a disagreement over measurement methodology. Josh Ricci believes it is a good product
The question of whether "hatred" is the correct term is debatable, but whatever is the correct term, emotion is involved. The ends to which ShadyJ goes to defile PSA are beyond logical. Including PSA in the context he did, misled several people into believing PSA was having the kind of issues that RA is having.
For the record, when I say PSA is the best value "for music", it is an acknowledgement that they are not as strong for deep bass LFE at high output as some subs. They maintain composure, but they are not designed for the kind of strong subsonic reproduction that makes great LFE/HT.