Thoughts on all in-ceiling speakers in HT

[brown123]

Hi,
We're finishing part of our basement, and one room is becoming the ultimate WAF HT, with as invisible a HT as possible. I'm using a Panasonic AE900U that swings out of sight, a draper access/v 106" screen that is ceiling recessed, and I'm going wit Speakercraft AIM 8 threes for the front and center, and AIM 7 threes for the other 6 speakers in a 9.1 configuration run by a Yamaha z9.
The questions comes on speaker placment. Before the framing goes up, I've started testing positioning of the ceiling speakers, mounted in squares of drywall. With respect to the front and center speakers, I've experimented with some placement, and am now questioning the conventional wisdom of placing those 3 speakers in a row. Why wouldn't a spacing that puts each speaker equidistant from the listening point be better if it's as easy to achieve, which it is with all-ceiling. In fact, I'm now thinking that all speakers should be points on a circle with the midpoint being the center listening position.
Also curious if anyone has experience with the Yamaha presence speakers and the besting positioning. In the all-ceiling scenario, I'm looking at placing them wider than the front speakers and closer to the listener, since I'm "aim"ing the speakers at the maximum angle to the listener, closer is "higher".
Any thoughts or experience before I nail down the positions? One thing about in-ceilings, they are tough to move once you place them.

John

 

[Hi Ho]

I wouldn't recomend placing the front speakers in the ceiling. It would mess up the sound stage. The best place for the front speakers is at ear level, and ideally behind an acoustically transparent screen for the center.

As for the rear speakers, I see no problem with placing them in the ceiling. Many people do this and are satisfied with the results. The surrounds a meant to be above ear level anyway.

The presence speakers may work well in the ceiling. I have never experience the Yamaha presence feature so I don't know a lot positioning speakers for it.

 

[bigpapa]

I second trying to put your LCR in the wall on plane.

If you do go in-ceiling, maybe try mounting them tight to the wall and corner loading them; if you are seriously out of plane in your listening position, it might help to aim the speakers at the adjacent wall.

I've done a few all ceiling mount 5.1's, and it's not ideal. It will work though.

 

[jake51s]

I have a my LF, RF, SR, and SL speakers in ceiling in my living room where an above average WAF was required, and with some odd space constraints. I have the center in an armoire in the corner with a sub behind it. I experimented beforehand with placement, having the fronts in ceiling is not quite right, but more than acceptable. They have aimable tweeters that make a difference. The surrounds are great though. Don't be totally afraid of all your speakers in the ceiling, but there is a tradeoff.

 

[InTheIndustry]

It will be fine, except for the speakers....

My professional opinion: I wouldn't use those speakers for what you're doing. Jamo makes some very nice 3-way LCR in ceiling speakers for this purpose (model 6.521K4). They MSRP at $400 each and the rear surrounds are a little less. Proficient (speakercraft's off-brand) makes three different models but I have found them to be harsh on the high ends and we install those in homes with lower budgets. I have set up several systems with the Jamo's and they sound excellent. Get thicker carpet in the room and it will be fine. BIG TIP...For the best sound, Build a box between the joist for each speaker using 2X4's and fill that box with insulation. They will sound very very good, especially when supplied with that much power from your receiver.

On another note... is there any way to avoid putting the screen in the ceiling? Those always seem to get stuck or wrinkled. I've never gotten a sevice call from the wall mount screens (at least not from sticking, wrinkles, or tension issues).

 

[jcPanny]

In Ceiling speakers

If you must do in-celing speakers, Speakercraft, Jamo, and Triad are a few of the best brands. The speakercraft "AIM" speakers allow you to aim the speaker towards the listening position giving you some flexibility in placement. By doing the circular speaker configuration, I think you might be narrowing the soundstage so that there is only one great seat in the middle and the rest don't sound as good. I think the front speakers in a line could produce a wider soundstage and more good seats. Also, the speaker setup on the receiver will acount for different distances for the mains, center, and surrounds from the listening position.

Keep in mind, current Yamaha receivers allow you to run 5.1 + zone 2, 5.1 + presence, OR 7.1 speaker configuration. With in-ceiling speakers, it makes it difficult to experiment and decide which configuration your prefer. You could always wire for both locations and add an extra pair of speakers.

Don't forget the in-wall subwoofer.

Another idea. If you can convince your wife to go for the RBH Sound cinema site system, you can have huge front speakers (that don't look like speakers) and a fixed screen.

P.S. What did you use to get the projector to swing out of the wall or ceiling?

 

[brown123]

Thanks for the responses

Thanks to all so far on the responses.

I've already purchased the speakercraft AIMs for this, and have now come to the conclusion after moving pieces of drywall with speakers in them around that going with the LCR in a straight line is the way to go to get the best coverage of the seating area. With the AIMs, I've also moved them out 3 feet in front of the screen, which puts them 10 feet in front of the seating area. That seems to be the best compromise between clarity and keeping the soundstage on screen.

I'm putting in the 9.1 setup, to use both the Yamaha presence and back surround.

for the projector, I'm putting in a media closet at the back, almost center of the room, and am using a double-articulated small tv wall mount to allow the projector to stay in the closet, and then swing out to the back wall for use.

I was really torn on getting a recessed screen vs. fixed screen, but given the fact that I've got 3 boys 3 years old and younger, I knew any 8 foot long white object within their reach wouldn't be long for this world.

thanks again.