Thought I knew HDTV and Audio. I thought wrong...

[BIG_KAHUNA]

Hello all!
My name's Scott and I'm so glad I found a forum filled with such expert advice! So I thought I had my head wrapped around the beautiful world of HD but as the title says, I was WAY wrong. I appear to be in way over my head here. So let me give you the rundown of my equipment and the short story that got me here.

Mom moved a while back to a smaller place as I headed off to college. Some how I managed to score the sound equipment she used in our basement home theater (minus the projector and screen). I'm thinking raging parties and LOUD music right?! The equipment was purchased somewhere around 2007, so it's not the most up to date but how much can the speakers really change in 5 years? The amps, now that's a different story seeing how Yamaha discontinued my receiver a looong time ago. Either way the 2channel stereo worked really well, maybe too well, for what I needed it for.

Times have changed and those wicked house parties are far and few in between. So I decided to gear the system more towards HD, not just loud, for gaming and movies. I got back, apparently never was lol, into the audio game when I recently purchased an xbox 360. Gaming on the 27in tube wasn't cutting it so I bought a 50" Samsung LED 120Hz (best for gaming I'm told) 1080p and mounted it on the wall. Then plugged in a movie on the xbox and wasn't happy with the picture quality so went out and made the jump to blu ray, I'll never go back. So the picture was where I wanted it now onto the audio. And I'm waaaay confused. Here's what I'm working with:

- (2) Floor Standing Front Speakers (Kilpsch F3s I believe)
BUILT FROM: 2004
BUILT UNIL: 2010
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 2000Hz
DIMENSIONS: 42" (106.7cm) x 9.5" (24.1cm) x 16" (40.6cm)
ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass reflex via front-firing port
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 35Hz - 23kHz +/-3dB
HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 6.5" (16.5cm) 90 x 60 Tractrix Horn
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
POWER HANDLING: 150 w (600 w peak)
SENSITIVITY: 97dB @ 2.83 volts/1 meter
TWEETER: 1" (2.5cm), aluminum dome tweeter
WEIGHT: 60lbs. (27.2kg)
WOOFER: Two 8� (20.3cm), magnetically shielded woofers

- (1) Center Speaker (Klipsch)
50W (200W peak) power handling
8 ohms impedance
0.75" magnetically shielded, aluminum dome tweeter
Dual 4" magnetically shielded woofers
3000Hz crossover frequency
Sealed enclosure type
4" 90 x 60 Tractrix high frequency horn
93.5dB sensitivity
100Hz-23kHz frequency response

- (2) Surround Sounds Speakers (RL/RR? also Klipsch)
BUILT FROM: 2010
DEPTH: 5.5" (13.9cm)
ENCLOSURE TYPE: Sealed (WDST)
FINISH: Black Ash vinyl
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 83Hz-23KHz ± 3dB
HEIGHT: 6.85" (17.4cm)
HIGH FREQUENCY DRIVER: Dual 1" (2.54cm) Aluminum diaphragm compression driver mated to 90° x 60° square Tractrix® Horn
INPUTS: Single binding posts
LOW FREQUENCY DRIVER: 5.25" (13.3cm), IMG woofer
MOUNTING: Keyhole Bracket
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 Ohms compatible
POWER HANDLING: 100W RMS / 400W Peak
SENSITIVITY: 91dB @ 2.83V / 1m
WEIGHT: 7lbs (3.2kg)
WIDTH: 14.3" (36.3cm)

- (1) 12" Subwoofer (Klipsch)
AMPLIFIER: BASH(r) digital hybrid
AMPLIFIER POWER: FTC Rated Power: 300 watts continuous @ 1% THD, Dynamic Power: 650 watts
BUILT FROM: 2005
DEPTH: 19.9 (50.5cm) D
DRIVE COMPONENTS: 12" (30.5cm) fiber-composite cone, down-firing woofer
ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass-reflex via rear-firing port
EXPORT VOLTAGE: 220 VAC 50/60Hz
FEATURES: Volume, Lowpass, Phase, Auto Power
FINISHES: Black vinyl
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 24-120Hz +/-3dB
HEIGHT: 18 (45.7cm) H
INPUTS: L/R line-level RCA jacks, L/R high level speaker binding posts
MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 117dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m
OUTPUTS: L/R High level speaker binding posts (passthru)
PHASE: Switchable 0-180 degrees
VOLTAGE: 110/120 VAC 60Hz
WEIGHT: 40 lbs. (18.2kg)
WIDTH: 15 (38.1cm) W

- (1) Yamaha Receiver (HTR-5790)
7.1-Channel, 700W Powerful Surround Sound (110W x 7) Digital ToP-ART Design Concept THX Select Processing Audio Delay for adjusting Lip Sync 192kHz/24-Bit DACs for all ChannelsQuad-Field CINEMA DSP Compatible with All the Latest Movie Sound Formats including Dolby Pro Logic II 27 Surround Programs (47 Variations) Night Listening Enhancer (Cinema/Music) and SILENT CINEMA

Am I sitting on some decent equipment here? Should be enough for some decent home theater setup right?

I'll go ahead and post this for now and I'll upload some pictures soon.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'll leave the decision on speakers for you - they imo most likely fine or movies/gaming
If you will be interested more in music - I recommend start by visit local audio dealer showroom and bring CD with music you know and like. This should give you an idea what you have compares to what's out there...

I'll have to note your receiver is good model, but it does not support new HD audio codecs (like new BluRay have) , not the HDMI video & audio switching.

For best results you'd need to upgrade your receiver
This one is pretty decent option - just make sure it's some room to breath - it can get a bit hot.
Onkyo TX-NR709 7.2-Channel 3-D Ready Network A/V Receiver | Accessories4less

This model also includes one of the better automatic room config - which can further help improve the sound in your HT room

Speaking about it - How big is it and is it open to other rooms/spaces?
In really big rooms - you might want to consider upgrading your subwoofer

 

[markw]

What do your ears tell you?

That equipment doesn't suck. What don't you like about it? The age?

Now, if you just want a change or don't like the sound, that's perfectly fine. Just try to be a bit more specific about what you're looking for.

FWIW, if you check out my HT system, you'll see most of the stuff is from about ten years ago and it still more than meets my needs. The two channel is even older.

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

ugh i need five posts to post pictures?!

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

three...............

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

four.............

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

Five!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

So I'm hoping I could get some feedback from everyone on the current setup. Here's the pics:

So looking from the kitchen. Surround in the upper corners.

Does this angle seem right? Ideas on a better place to put them?

 

[markw]

Pictures won't really help anythig. What are you shooting for?

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

Sorry for the poor picture quality. I was just wondering what y'alls input was on the setup. Im not getting the surround sound that I want. When that f14 flies from behind to front of the camera I can't really hear it coming from behind me u know? I have the levels on the surround rears all the way up but still can't HEAR hear them... even played with the angles of the speakers extensively. I run the Amp on ProLogic Surround II Movie setting. The other settings throw the speakers way off. What should I be shooting for here setting wise? The wiring looks bad right now but I'll fix that once I get the surround where it needs to be. On the amp I have them running to the surround rear and set right in the amp. Should I run them as side surround for better surround effect?

 

[brianedm]

Nice bong. I'm assuming its used just for tobacco are your surrounds bipole/dipole? If they are you could always switch that around and see if it makes a difference to you.

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

Uhhh my bad I was in a rush to snap some pics so that I could do this post at work and not be totally bored outta my mind. But YES that is a "tobacco water pipe", the house is also a freekin wreck. Lo siento amigos. BUT so there in lies the problem huh? Amp can't process the blu ray input...

I had a whole bunch of questions about the routing for these wires to from consoles amp tv etc but i suppose that will have to wait til i snag a new amp. Any other suggestions on amps, or mounting those rear speakers? Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it!

BTW, what should I expect to get for selling the old amp?

Receivers in the $300 or less department? I just don't want to limit the speakers b/c of the amp and what key feature am I looking for to make sure it's blu ray compatible. What kind of wattage are we talking here?

 

[hizzaah]

If you're running 5.1 shouldn't they be set up as

Sounds to me like you have the surrounds set to rear surrounds which are for 7.1 and have nothing hooked up to the 4/5 speaker spots. Am I misunderstanding? If that's the case, this would explain your missing surround sound..

Images are from THX

Edit: in the ~$300 range, the Onkyo NR616 would be good or the Denon 1713. Both refurbished and support HDMI 1.4a (3D capable and support Audio Return Channel)

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

So for a 5.1 set up i want speakers to the left and right of me? not behind me? or not angled in between back and sides? Would they still sound right having to be mounted to the ceiling? The room doesn't really allow side mounting of speakers. unless mounted to the ceiling...

As of now I have them mounted behind me as shown but spread wider than the diagram posted. I have them wired into the amp as surround rear. You're saying by leaving them where they are and wiring them into the amp as surround side ill get better surround over all? I'm thinking this could be the case if the surround rear speaker output on the amp is more quiet that surround side b/c I have to set the level on them way up to even hear them. Or is this a combination of wrong wiring and an old amp? xbox games seem to work fairly well but the blu ray just isn't doing its thing.

 

[hizzaah]

So for a 5.1 set up i want speakers to the left and right of me? not behind me? or not angled in between back and sides? Would they still sound right having to be mounted to the ceiling? The room doesn't really allow side mounting of speakers. unless mounted to the ceiling...

I mean I don't want you to have to rip stuff off the walls, but for 5.1 is generally placed to the sides for proper listening. You may be fine having them angled, but high and angled is generally where the rear surround speakers for 7.1 go. You could pick up 2 more speakers and do 7.1. Leave the current ones where they are and add properly placed surrounds..?

This is the recommended setup for Dolby-TrueHD or Dolby-DTS HD Master

As of now I have them mounted behind me as shown but spread wider than the diagram posted. I have them wired into the amp as surround rear. You're saying by leaving them where they are and wiring them into the amp as surround side ill get better surround over all? I'm thinking this could be the case if the surround rear speaker output on the amp is more quiet that surround side b/c I have to set the level on them way up to even hear them. Or is this a combination of wrong wiring and an old amp? xbox games seem to work fairly well but the blu ray just isn't doing its thing.

I believe the setting your using up mixes to 7.1 from 5.1/2.1 sources (most audio doesn't actually have 7.1) so while you are hearing sounds from them, they aren't the audio intended for the actual 4th/5th channels if they're wired up as rear surrounds. They should be wired to the regular surrounds.

Shouldn't take but a few moments to swap the four wires on the back of the AVR to the surround channels to test it out for yourself. I think the receiver is fine, just wired up wrong.. Of course a new receiver that supports FHD would be a nice upgrade.

 

[brianedm]

Receivers in the $300 or less department? I just don't want to limit the speakers b/c of the amp and what key feature am I looking for to make sure it's blu ray compatible. What kind of wattage are we talking here?

Klipsch speakers are known for being efficient. Most any receiver should be fine to drive those.

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

Guys, I really appreciate you helping me out here!

So looks like I'll try swapping the wires to the amp from surround rear to surround side and leave them where they're hanging...for now. (possible 7.1 in the future ) So what im getting out of this is that an upgrade in the amp department is a must if i want true surround sound from blu ray? Even though its wired from blu ray player to tv via HDMI then audio is from tv to receiver via optical audio cable? The receiver simply can't process the blu ray audio code properly?

 

[hizzaah]

Guys, I really appreciate you helping me out here!

So looks like I'll try swapping the wires to the amp from surround rear to surround side and leave them where they're hanging...for now. (possible 7.1 in the future ) So what im getting out of this is that an upgrade in the amp department is a must if i want true surround sound from blu ray? Even though its wired from blu ray player to tv via HDMI then audio is from tv to receiver via optical audio cable? The receiver simply can't process the blu ray audio code properly?

I would think you would be fine running that way. You'd be gaining HDMI Input/Output if you upgraded the receiver and a few other features. Not really necessary if you run your FHD components to your tv, then use the optical out.. And not integral to your surround sound experience at this point. Try changing the wiring and see what you think from there

 

[BIG_KAHUNA]

Will do. A final question from here, as mentioned earlier in our conversation: Does BluRay use an audio code for surround sound that this amp can not process? I still get sound from the bluray and sounds pretty good but im thinking it might be b/c of the faulty wiring job. The receiver does take digital optical audio...but is there an actual code coming through that wire that the receiver can not process meaning no surround sound? If that's the case then the new amp is a must right?