This has me Stumped! Please help!

J

Jared_mitchley

Audiophyte
on the job site today there is a 100 ft Fiber optic Hdmi. Plugs into the Lg tv and the other end I have a Yamaha Rx-v6, this is where I get stumped, while I have plugged into the receiver I get no sounds or picture, maybe a flickering picture. But when I plug straight into the Apple TV bypassing the receiver I get a picture and everything works :) what the heck? I have tried numerous amounts of things but jus curious if anyone has any ideas off the top of their head :) Thankyou
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

pessimistic optimist
What version of HDMI are on each device? Are both 4k signals?
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

pessimistic optimist
And both are HDMI 2.0? I would try pass-through with no scaling first and then try each on individually.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

pessimistic optimist
100ft is a long way. Never personally went more than 50ft.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
How much do we get paid if we figure it out for ya? :) Which 100 ft optical hdmi cable is it?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
on the job site today there is a 100 ft Fiber optic Hdmi. Plugs into the Lg tv and the other end I have a Yamaha Rx-v6, this is where I get stumped, while I have plugged into the receiver I get no sounds or picture, maybe a flickering picture. But when I plug straight into the Apple TV bypassing the receiver I get a picture and everything works :) what the heck? I have tried numerous amounts of things but jus curious if anyone has any ideas off the top of their head :) Thankyou
I would like to know how you are powering that hybrid HDMI cable. My guess is you need a voltage inserter to power it, as the receiver can't. Also make sure you have the cable the right way round. These cables are directional. However if the Apple TV works, then the cable should be correctly orientated. I always advise the use of a voltage inserter for those hybrid cables. Not using one can damage the HDMI board of the receiver. What brand of hybrid cable did you use?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You can go 280 ft. at least with a hybrid cable.
With no other conditions other than length and it being optical? Thought you found more than that when I suggested you look into Ruipro a long time ago....
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
With no other conditions other than length and it being optical? Thought you found more than that when I suggested you look into Ruipro a long time ago....
I guess the longest cable available is 252 ft.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Samurai
The devil is in the details. I find no certified optical long run HDMI cables anywhere. Read descriptions carefully. While some say they support 4K@60 or HDR, none I found said 4K@ 60 HDR. Some only 4K up to 30. Those are crazy long runs to think one will get full specs without issue. Never went over 25ft back when 3D was a thing. First cable didn’t cut it, second one was thicker than a Nutria’s tail.:D
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
The devil is in the details. I find no certified optical long run HDMI cables anywhere. Read descriptions carefully. While some say they support 4K@60 or HDR, none I found said 4K@ 60 HDR. Some only 4K up to 30. Those are crazy long runs to think one will get full specs without issue. Never went over 25ft back when 3D was a thing. First cable didn’t cut it, second one was thinker than a Nutria’s tail.:D
There are no certified hybrid HDMI cables. The reason is that the power draw exceeds the HDMI specs. That is why I use a voltage inserter. MY 35' cable works perfectly.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Under what conditions particularly?

ps I saw a claim up to 300ft....but what assistance does the cable itself need?
It is just that 252' was the longest Ruipro cable. You can get longer made to order. I would estimate you could run at least 2.5 miles with this technology.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Samurai
So, even with optical, would you say 25ft is the unassisted max to avoid issues with 4K HDR bandwidth?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
So, even with optical, would you say 25ft is the unassisted max to avoid issues with 4K HDR bandwidth?
I'm not sure I understand your question. All hybrid cables are powered. These new standard 4K HDMI cables degrade after about 12', and are pretty useless above 15'. So at that point you need a powered cable. The hybrid optical cables are by far the best, and performance does not degrade in any way with the long lengths as above.

The video is by fiber and the audio via copper. At the receiver, there is a converter to convert the video to optical and the reverse at the TV. That is why the cables are directional.

The power draw of those converters far exceeds HDMI specs. Some receivers will power them, and some won't, and some blow their HDMI boards. The solution is simple; use a power inserter at the back of the receiver or pre/pro. It works great, two years for me now.

This is one more issue where HDMI is a cluster F, and it is all the fault of the HDCP authorities. Unfortunately the public, and I think some pros, do not understand the basics of how to engineer for this new reality. It is crucial everyone understand this.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Don’t bring up HDCP!:mad:
Yes, this whole HDMI/HDCP issue has been very badly managed, with multiple issues creating misunderstanding over the years. In addition revisions have often been fraught with bugs.

The issue we have been discussing is just one of the most recent examples.

The fact is that with 4K and 8K, 12 ft. of an unpowered cable is the extent of the reliable limit. Even for a lot of domestic installations, that is not far enough. In that case, a powered active cable of some type is obviously required.

So, the useless response has been to refuse to certify cables that draw more current, than the HDMI spec. That is just not good enough and a disgrace. The current spec. is 55 ma. That is miniscule. Now I know that that 5 Volt output was originally designed as solely a control voltage. However it should have been updated to a powering supply voltage right at the time active cables became mandatory for many installations.

So, one potential solution would be to make the inclusion of a voltage inserter mandatory to certify an active powered cable.

The other solution would be make 500 ma say, part of the HDMI out spec. Manufacturers might object, as that would increase power demands from a complex and expensive board. However that could be done, and I'm sure would add cost.

Probably a better solution is to mandate a separate 5V powering port below every HDMI out port.

The reason that the voltage inserter is not ideal, is it increases the effective depth of the unit. In my case everything is in a 19" rack I can walk behind. However to allow for a reasonable curve, an extra 3.5" is required behind a receiver or pre/pro to accommodate a voltage inserter.

This is an issue that needs addressing and sorting out fast. I have fielded a lot of questions on this, and what to do when a longer HDMI run is required, is not clear to most. It was not clear to me, and I had to figure all this out.

I have fielded one post from a member where using an optical cable without a voltage inserter blew his HDMI board. Strictly speaking that is not covered under warranty, as more current was pulled from the HDMI port than spec.

We need pressure applied all round on this, as it will be a source of greater and greater frustration, if it is not sorted out.
 

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