Thinking of returning my Axiom m80s...

[robot]

About three weeks ago I took delivery of some Axiom m80s. They are decent speakers but I just don't see what all the fuss is about. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? I'm using a Denon AVR 2106 reciever with a Denon DVD 1703. I also use my computer as a source for music. I've got some cheap 12 guage copper speaker wire and some decent interconnects.

I knew these speakers are a little on the bright side before I bought them, but I'm starting to find it annoying. Cymbals and voices are hissy and they overpower everything else. I'm not quite sure what it is but the sound just seems to be missing something. You know when certain sounds seem to ring through you and make your armhair stand on end? These just don't do that. I emailed tech support and told him that they lack the definition I am looking for. He politely disagreed and thinks that the m80 has excellent definition. I agree that they are bright but they are also muddy to my ears. Bright and muddy. Maybe it's just my listening levels? Because of the large number of drivers maybe they need to be played loud to 'break away' and move more freely. Maybe all I need is a smaller speaker.

I listened to some B&W 603s today and I was quite impressed. So far it seems I might very well return the m80s and get a pair of 603s. What do you guys think?

 

[anamorphic96]

A bigger amplifier is needed here.

Get an outboard 2 channel amp to drive the M80's. They are a 4 ohm load and tough to drive with a mid level receiver. The 2106 is really only designed to go down to 6 ohms. The M60's are more suited to your receiver.

A used amp is not very much and will do wonders for the M80's and give them the current they need. You will then hear what they are really capable of.

 

[robot]

I don't know a lot about electronics... but my limited understanding leads me to believe that at low volumes it shouldn't matter? I'm sure the m80s thrive in big rooms at high volume. My apartment is not exactly big.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don't know a lot about electronics... but my limited understanding leads me to believe that at low volumes it shouldn't matter? I'm sure the m80s thrive in big rooms at high volume. My apartment is not exactly big.

That is correct. At low volumes, you should be fine for amp power.
Perhaps it is your room that is causing this behavior? Perhaps you could eq it?
Does your receiver has any eq feature or tone control ?

 

[Josuah]

Your room may be too "reflective" for the higher frequencies. If you clap your hands, is there some ringing/echo?

 

[Sheep]

What part of Vancouver do you live in Robot? I would really like to hear those speakers, maybe I can shed some light on the setup/configuration.

SheepStar

 

[robot]

That is correct. At low volumes, you should be fine for amp power.
Perhaps it is your room that is causing this behavior? Perhaps you could eq it?
Does your receiver has any eq feature or tone control ?

Yes I suppose it could be my room... after giving it the slap test as Josuah mentioned I do get a bit of an echo. Hmm.... it's too late to do any serious listening but I'm going to try toeing them in a little bit. For some reason I had it in my head that these speakers sound best without any toe in... I'll reposition them a bit to see how they sound.

And it does have a room eq function... I hadn't given it any serious thought but I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me about that.

 

[robot]

What part of Vancouver do you live in Robot? I would really like to hear those speakers, maybe I can shed some light on the setup/configuration.

SheepStar

I live in east van. If you want to come over for a listen I'd be glad to have you! But just so you know, instead of buying furniture I bought HT stuff. We will have to sit on the floor. I'm used to it now but some people don't seem to like it.

 

[jlcct]

I live in east van. If you want to come over for a listen I'd be glad to have you! But just so you know, instead of buying furniture I bought HT stuff. We will have to sit on the floor. I'm used to it now but some people don't seem to like it.

OOOOoooohhhhh man, I know what you're sayin'. I've done that to myself a couple of times. A few years ago I moved into a new place and left my mattress and boxspring behind. I figured I'd just buy new ones with the money I saved for moving and furniture. I bought a LOT of equipment I didn't need and slept on a love seat for a month. I had to convince my girlfriend she couldn't come over the whole time. What a mess that was. I've learned my lesson.

I also have the M80's but I have them connected to an external.
While at a low level in a medium/large room, they seem well balanced from top to bottom.
At a mid level, I'd say average listening volume, the sound quality is no different just louder.
At a high voume, where I often ask the speakers to play at levels completly unsafe for a lot of speakers, they are intense and through the roof loud while sounding astonishingly accurate. I don't think the quality at these volumes can be any closer to perfect considering the conditions.

But overall it's about your living space. Hopefully if you adjust your configuration again and again you will find what you are looking for. If not maybe you are still within the Axiom trial period. But like the other posters said, your room just might not allow you to have them.

 

[Pianoman84d]

The beauty of this hobby is that you can make decisions like this. Maybe in your room with your equipment, the Axioms are not for you... The great thing is that this is OK!! The whole point of this is to find speakers that are right for you. Maybe you like a different sort of sound... Who knows. Maybe its your room thats the problem... Isn't this fun

Seriously, once sheep hears them, maybe he will have some suggestions. If not, return them and try something different.

 

[Nick250]

And perhaps they just are not the right speakers for you. When I last auditioned speakers, 75% or so were a no-go after less than 5 minutes of listening.

Nick

 

[Tomorrow]

I live in east van. If you want to come over for a listen I'd be glad to have you! But just so you know, instead of buying furniture I bought HT stuff. We will have to sit on the floor. I'm used to it now but some people don't seem to like it.

Adding furniture to your listening room will likely help tame some of the acoustic problems you're experiencing. The sibilance you hear has been attributed to Axiom in previous reviews, however.

 

[markw]

don't let others opinions tell you what you're suposed to like.

First off, not all spealkers sound pleasing to all people. That's why there are so many different speaker nmanufactures that put out speakers with different tonal balances.

But, playing speakers in an empty room isn't really using them in their intended environment. Room treatment and furniture may help somewhat but it won't change the overall picture.

 

[robot]

Adding furniture to your listening room will likely help tame some of the acoustic problems you're experiencing. The sibilance you hear has been attributed to Axiom in previous reviews, however.

I do have a bunch of stuff other than furniture... like a mattress right in front of the speakers lying on the floor. Clothes, boxes, and other junks are lying around.

After looking around a bit more people seem to agree that the B&W 603 is a nice speaker at good value. When I heard it yesteray I was impressed. I felt that it was very accurate and defined. I'll go in for another listening test soon and get started on sending the Axioms back.

I suppose I'll check around for some better prices too... if I remember correctly the dealer wanted $1700 for them. Sounds a bit high to me...

 

[gene]

Robot;

With your electronics and room dynamics I think you are better off with M60s. Also toe-ing in your speakers will only make them sound brighter.

After looking around a bit more people seem to agree that the B&W 603 is a nice speaker at good value. When I heard it yesteray I was impressed. I felt that it was very accurate and defined. I'll go in for another listening test soon and get started on sending the Axioms back.

Of course you are hearing the B&Ws in a different room and with different electronics. Try bringing your Axioms to the showroom with the B&Ws. Some dealers will allow this.

You should try to address your room acoustics a bit before swapping out speaker after speaker. A good amp may also benefit you even at low listening levels since it will have better low frequency control, better stereo separation, and possibly a more refined top end. You can hear the differences of a good amp vs bad amp at all power levels especially if the speaker load is a tough one like the M80s are.

Personally between the M80s and M60s, I prefer the M60s as I have found them to be a bit smoother in each listening room I have heard them in.

If you find these speakers are still too bright after addressing room, amp, etc, I recommend you try a pair of M60s or speakers from Dynaudio, Totem, or Av123. Its not always the case, but speakers with silk dome tweeters usually sound a bit smoother than ones with metal domes.

 

[phillyguy]

Perhaps you can home audition the B&W's before you send back the Axioms. You may find you don't like the B&W's as much in your home. But you will be able to compare them side by side to the Axioms. Not familiar with your Denon, but I assume you set up an A/B to be able to switch between them?

 

[Haoleb]

I have to agree with what most of the folks have already said, I believe if you got a good amp you would be able to let them shine a bit more. Dont expect the best Sound quality out of your computer either, I have found that my Audigy 2 soundcard with all EQ on flat is a bit bright and harsh sounding.

Im not sure that muddy is a word I have ever heard in the same sentence with M80's. while a few people do call them bright i think that with proper sources and amps they might change their mind.

 

[robot]

Robot;

Of course you are hearing the B&Ws in a different room and with different electronics. Try bringing your Axioms to the showroom with the B&Ws. Some dealers will allow this.

You should try to address your room acoustics a bit before swapping out speaker after speaker. A good amp may also benefit you even at low listening levels since it will have better low frequency control, better stereo separation, and possibly a more refined top end. You can hear the differences of a good amp vs bad amp at all power levels especially if the speaker load is a tough one like the M80s are.

At the store yesterday I did have the luxury of listening to all the speakers with a Denon amplifier. It was a lower model... a 17 something. However the CD player was a fancy one. The Denon made all the speakers sound very nice indeed. The room was however much wider than mine, and it was much less reflective.

I have to say... I'm buying into all the fancy 'technology' B&W prides themselves on. I'm no engineer but the tube tweeter design sounds like a good idea to me. I think the midrange and woofers look really neat. They have some interesting ideas about woven kevlar.

I would enjoy bringing my Axioms to the showroom... but my car is being fixed right now and I'm waiting for transmission parts that are in Japan somewhere.

 

[Sheep]

Robot,

I have tomorrow off from work so if you're available I would gladly come over.

I'll bring my CD's as well as a digital camera so people can see what the layout is and can help suggest what to do where etc etc.

Pm my your address and I will find it using google maps.

SheepStar

 

[robot]

I have to agree with what most of the folks have already said, I believe if you got a good amp you would be able to let them shine a bit more. Dont expect the best Sound quality out of your computer either, I have found that my Audigy 2 soundcard with all EQ on flat is a bit bright and harsh sounding.

Im not sure that muddy is a word I have ever heard in the same sentence with M80's. while a few people do call them bright i think that with proper sources and amps they might change their mind.

Well to be fair only one person said that, and I believe Gene mentioned amps because I could have been hearing some $3000 fancy amp at the hifi shop.

I think of my 2106 as a fairly good amp. It's certainly not bad.

After listening to both sources thoroughly I do find the DVD player to sound a bit better. I hardly notice unless I play the same song back to back. The Creative X-Fi seems to have a pretty good DAC.

One thing I also noticed with the B&Ws was vocal clarity. I guess this is mostly due to the midrange driver? The 7 series midrange driver with the phase plug sounded even more amazing.