There's a significant difference in volume output between two closely related Denon AVRs, and I cannot figure out why.

[privateeye]

I own both the Denon AVR-S730H and the Denon AVR-1400X, which are from the same release year, with the latter being a slightly higher model than the S730H. In my setup, I utilize the 0-98 volume scale for both devices. When listening to movies and music through the S730H, I find a comfortable volume level between 40-55. However, with the 1400X, which is both marginally better in terms of features and more powerful, I need to increase the volume significantly, to between 60-75, to achieve a comparable volume output.

I'm well-acquainted with the various settings on both devices, and I'm confident that this discrepancy is not due to any standard settings such as line source adjustments or dynamic volume. It's been a while since I last used these receivers, and I cannot recall if this difference in volume levels has always been present or not.

Does it seem reasonable to expect that both models would produce similar output levels at similar volume settings? This leads me to wonder if the difference could indicate a potential issue or degradation with the 1400X. Despite my familiarity with these systems, I'm at a loss for an explanation.

 

[lovinthehd]

With the same speakers? Or different speakers? Might explain more about the setups/comparison.

Did you run a calibration routine (via Audyssey for example) to get the volume scales at least somewhat aligned between the two systems (assuming different speakers)?

 

[privateeye]

With the same speakers? Or different speakers? Might explain more about the setups/comparison.

Did you run a calibration routine (via Audyssey for example) to get the volume scales at least somewhat aligned between the two systems (assuming different speakers)?

Same speakers and I did run a calibration.

 

[lovinthehd]

Same speakers and I did run a calibration.

So not a direct comparison and sighted and relying on sonic memory? All settings/sound modes being the same? Same sources playing the same thing connected to each avr the same way (and what are you using as test material?)?

Do you have an spl meter to record differing playback levels at various volume points to give us more specifics about level differences? Even using a phone app at your seat would probably at least give a good idea of the difference.

 

[privateeye]

So not a direct comparison and sighted and relying on sonic memory? All settings/sound modes being the same? Same sources playing the same thing connected to each avr the same way (and what are you using as test material?)?

Do you have an spl meter to record differing playback levels at various volume points to give us more specifics about level differences? Even using a phone app at your seat would probably at least give a good idea of the difference.

I will do some more thorough testing later this evening.

 

[TLS Guy]

I own both the Denon AVR-S730H and the Denon AVR-1400X, which are from the same release year, with the latter being a slightly higher model than the S730H. In my setup, I utilize the 0-98 volume scale for both devices. When listening to movies and music through the S730H, I find a comfortable volume level between 40-55. However, with the 1400X, which is both marginally better in terms of features and more powerful, I need to increase the volume significantly, to between 60-75, to achieve a comparable volume output.

I'm well-acquainted with the various settings on both devices, and I'm confident that this discrepancy is not due to any standard settings such as line source adjustments or dynamic volume. It's been a while since I last used these receivers, and I cannot recall if this difference in volume levels has always been present or not.

Does it seem reasonable to expect that both models would produce similar output levels at similar volume settings? This leads me to wonder if the difference could indicate a potential issue or degradation with the 1400X. Despite my familiarity with these systems, I'm at a loss for an explanation.

I would bet that you have set the input sensitivities differently. Go under the input menu and you can see there is an adjustment for the output levels of the units connected. This is to get your connected units to the same level.

 

[privateeye]

I would bet that you have set the input sensitivities differently. Go under the input menu and you can see there is an adjustment for the output levels of the units connected. This is to get your connected units to the same level.

Source line level is the same on both.

 

[lovinthehd]

But is the actual source material the same? I might just start over and measure after a full reset of each avr to make sure the playing field is level since its the same speakers involved.

 

[TLS Guy]

Source line level is the same on both.

In that case the units have different gain structures. Although the later has more watts per channel but only five, and former is 75 watts but has the greater total power.

Where the volume is set is of no consequence. What matters is the output before clipping not what the db numbers say.

 

[privateeye]

But is the actual source material the same? I might just start over and measure after a full reset of each avr to make sure the playing field is level since its the same speakers involved.

I suppose I should reset both as I only reset the x1400h. Regardless of external device or input used, volume needs to be about 15% higher on the x1400h to achieve the same volume level. I think there must be an issue with the AVR hardware. After doing a brief search, it appears others have had a similar issue on various Denon AVRs.

 

[TLS Guy]

I suppose I should reset both as I only reset the x1400h. Regardless of external device or input used, volume needs to be about 15% higher on the x1400h to achieve the same volume level. I think there must be an issue with the AVR hardware. After doing a brief search, it appears others have had a similar issue on various Denon AVRs.

I highly doubt there is any problem at all. If you did not do the comparison you did, you would not know. The numbers you see on the dial are highly arbitrary. What matters is the power output to clipping into the same load and nothing else. The numbers you are worrying about are arbitrary. This is a total non problem. Unless you did this with the same exact receivers, I would bet you would always find the output was different with the same numbers between all different receivers on the planet.

 

[lovinthehd]

I highly doubt there is any problem at all. If you did not do the comparison you did, you would not know. The numbers you see on the dial are highly arbitrary. What matters is the power output to clipping in the same load and nothing else. The numbers you are worrying about are arbitrary. This is a total non problem.

They are not supposed to arbitrary unless you don't calibrate them for the particular speakers involved, but he did calibrate he said. Could be the way calibrated, hard to know as there's not a lot of detail. Pretty sure most avrs gain structure is more similar than different in any case....

 

[TLS Guy]

They are not supposed to arbitrary unless you don't calibrate them for the particular speakers involved, but he did calibrate he said. Could be the way calibrated, hard to know as there's not a lot of detail. Pretty sure most avrs gain structure is more similar than different in any case....

They are going to be different designs and will have a different gain structure. I addition different power amplifiers will behave differently in response to the impedance curve of the speaker. It could well be the case that if you measured them into a resistive load they would behave the same under those conditions. It is unlikely that different power amps will behave the same connected to a complex load like a loudspeaker, where current and voltage our out of synch and all over the map with frequency.

 

[lovinthehd]

They are going to be different designs and will have a different gain structure. I addition different power amplifiers will behave differently in response to the impedance curve of the speaker. It could well be the case that if you measured them into a resistive load they would behave the same under those conditions. It is unlikely that different power amps will behave the same connected to a complex load like a loudspeaker, where current and voltage our out of synch and all over the map with frequency.

To explain the sort of 20dB differences he's mentioning, would take what particularly in the way of differences? What is the most likely basic difference if all inputs are the same?

 

[lovinthehd]

I suppose I should reset both as I only reset the x1400h. Regardless of external device or input used, volume needs to be about 15% higher on the x1400h to achieve the same volume level. I think there must be an issue with the AVR hardware. After doing a brief search, it appears others have had a similar issue on various Denon AVRs.

You mentioned 20dB differences, that's not 15%. A doubling of power is 3dB.

 

[privateeye]

To explain the sort of 20dB differences he's mentioning, would take what particularly in the way of differences? What is the most likely basic difference if all inputs are the same?

I'm going to do more testing. I did Google "Denon low volume problem" and a few similar search terms and did find others having similar issues with various models.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm going to do more testing. I did Google "Denon low volume problem" and a few similar search terms and did find others having similar issues with various models.

In what specific ways, tho? Just involving a brand and an impression isn't a lot to go on. FWIW I have three Denon avrs as well as an Onkyo and a Sony. I don't have level issues with any of them particularly.

ps wasn't referring to specific ways and your testing particularly. More the difference in volume as manifested by the search terms used.

 

[TLS Guy]

To explain the sort of 20dB differences he's mentioning, would take what particularly in the way of differences? What is the most likely basic difference if all inputs are the same?

I have never assumed those db settings have any particular calibration. After all db is a relative volume scale anyway. So what it only means is that if you increase the power 3db you have doubled the output power into that load. If you increase it 10 db you have doubled the loudness.

So to know if there is a problem with the unit you would have to measure the output into a specified 8 ohm power resistor and also measure its distortion. So there would only be a problem if the unt failed to deliver the specified power at the specified distortion. My strong hunch is that both units meet spec.

The reason I say that, is that I can not think of a fault causing that issue without causing other serious issues, that would make the sound seriously distorted and cause massive clipping before reaching acceptable in room volume.

 

[PENG]

I'm going to do more testing. I did Google "Denon low volume problem" and a few similar search terms and did find others having similar issues with various models.

You will find that because many users may or may not know the details about how settings between units they compared could be different. There are many settings, to really tell if it is settings related, your best bet is to factory reset both. Then before doing anything, compare the two using a know source such as just use the internal test tone.

If these units force you to do the autosetup, then okay but after that's done, compare the two using direct mode, again, use the test tone and a spl meter if you have one. It has to be settings related, or something went defective, as HD mentioned, there is no way there could be that much difference. Denon usually kept their gain structure unchanged over the years.

 

[Trebdp83]

There was not a word about source device or source material and no information about the audio codec. Was the source device connected to each receiver the same way?

As was mentioned, start with a factory reset and then compare the Default settings of each. Match any settings that aren’t the same after the reset and then test them in Direct mode before adjusting settings.

Use the same device with the same source material outputting the same signal to both receivers using the same connection. Use any meter you have available to you. There are apps. Then, post all of that information. There is no reason for anybody to keep throwing darts at this board while wearing a blindfold.