The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

Do Separates (Preamps or Pre-pros + Amps) Sound Better Than AVRs in Direct/Bypass Modes?

  • Yes, Separates sound better than AVRs

    Votes: 39 49.4%
  • No, Separates and AVRs sound about the same

    Votes: 20 25.3%
  • No, Separates and AVRs sound about the same when they are similar in price range

    Votes: 20 25.3%

  • Total voters
    79
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I wonder how many forum members are basing their purchasing decisions on this chart.

The higher the numbers = the better the SQ or the more reliable it is?

What is takeaway meaning of this SINAD chart. :D

1. AVR will sound as good as separates AVP as long as the SINAD is just as good
2. AVR will sound better than AVP if the AVR-SINAD is better than the AVP-SINAD
3. You can keep your AVR and talk about SINAD if it helps you sleep better at night - I‘ll keep my separates AVP:D
 
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B

Bonscott

Enthusiast
I wonder how many forum members are basing their purchasing decisions on this chart.

The higher the numbers = the better the SQ or the more reliable it is?

What is takeaway meaning of this SINAD chart. :D

1. AVR will sound as good as separates AVP as long as the SINAD is just as good
2. AVR will sound better than AVP if the AVR-SINAD is better than the AVP-SINAD
3. You can keep your AVR and talk about SINAD if it helps you sleep better at night - I‘ll keep my separates AVP:D
For some these numbers are important and they make there purchasing decisions based on them. I think its not important to the majority of consumers. It’s also not important to
Companies like Sound United and Yamaha or else every one of there products would be on the top of the list. Inaudible sound waves vs features and performance and cost.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
That's an old one that has been superseded since quite a few more have been tested.

The latest one is:

1602948080544.png
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
That's an old one that has been superseded since quite a few more have been tested.

The latest one is:

View attachment 40745
Look at the difference in the original Denon 6700 rated at 87 in the 1st review and 100 in the 2nd review. All as a result of a change in a few parts.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Look at the difference in the original Denon 6700 rated at 87 in the 1st review and 100 in the 2nd review. All as a result of a change in a few parts.
I think it can be simply a change in measurement technique, setup, or software.

A component can go from being "bad" to being one of the best literally overnight.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
For some these numbers are important and they make there purchasing decisions based on them. I think its not important to the majority of consumers. It’s also not important to
Companies like Sound United and Yamaha or else every one of there products would be on the top of the list. Inaudible sound waves vs features and performance and cost.
I think it's understandable to prefer components that measure well.

For years many of us have talked about inaudible measurements like SNR, Crosstalk, and THD from publications like S&V, Stereophile, & Soundstage.

But to see people actually say they are making their decisions based on some numbers that one guy did is kind of weird.

I think some companies do care a lot, including Denon/Marantz and Emotiva.

If all companies end up caring a lot, then all these components will end up having great numbers. Then there won't be anything special to talk about if all components have great numbers. :D

Until someone starts a new website (BSR, CSR :D) and figure out some other inaudible numbers that many components don't measure well. :D
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
I think it can be simply a change in measurement technique, setup, or software.
A component can go from being "bad" to being one of the best literally overnight.
The 6700 review says, Denon Engineering traced the difference to a faulty capacitor( or capacitors) used in the initial run of the 6700.

Seems odd but that's what is reported.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
One thing that Audioholics and ASR reviews are doing is getting some manufacturers to step up their game in response to the measurements....which we all benefit from.
 
B

Bonscott

Enthusiast
One thing that Audioholics and ASR reviews are doing is getting some manufacturers to step up their game in response to the measurements....which we all benefit from.
If the measurements are Audible and yes. If they are not they are No benefit whatsoever. Other then maybe piece of mind. Sounded great until I read where it does not. Food was great until someone told me it wasn’t
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Not particularly about audibility, rather better engineering, better execution, quality control, etc. That many electronics are already transparent is a byproduct....
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Not particularly about audibility, rather better engineering, better execution, quality control, etc. That many electronics are already transparent is a byproduct....
So better engineering, execution and quality control = better Reliability, less heat production and cooler operation?

The Emotiva that went from bad to one of the best overnight with some modifications and the Denon that improved by replacing a bad Capacitor = better engineering, execution and quality control ? Better engineering from simple modifications overnight?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Look at the difference in the original Denon 6700 rated at 87 in the 1st review and 100 in the 2nd review. All as a result of a change in a few parts.
Yeah, surely you remember the Covid caps ended up in some early batches.. No one know which and how many caps were involved so people were guessing while they had so much effects. To me, they had to be small caps in the pre/pro sections where noise specs could be critical depending on where they were.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
If the measurements are Audible and yes. If they are not they are No benefit whatsoever. Other then maybe piece of mind. Sounded great until I read where it does not. Food was great until someone told me it wasn’t
Agreed, but I would also argue that they do have benefit because a lot of people are very prone to Placebo effects. I think it was ADTG who cited that people (some anyway) would hear better, even night and day better sound if the device is more expensive. The same would go for better specs, measurements, or even the look. All else being equal, the better looking (to the individual) one will always sound better. Like, all else being equal (thankfully all else are not usually equal), the taller (man anyway) one will get the job.:D Food, same thing, the better looking dish always taste better, again, all else being equal.
 
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Bonscott

Enthusiast
Agreed, but I would also argue that they do have benefit because a lot of people are very prone to Placebo effects. It think it was ADTG who cited that people (some anyway) would hear better, even night and day better sound if the device is more expensive. The same would go for better specs, measurements, or even the look. All else being equal, the better looking (to the individual) one will always sound better. Like, all else being equal (thankfully all else are not usually equal), the taller (man anyway) one will get the job.:D Food, same thing, the better looking dish always taste better, again, all else being equal.
Correct. I know a person that runs an Auto Dealership. Looks and features sell cars. Very few people look under the hood
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Correct. I know a person that runs an Auto Dealership. Looks and features sell cars. Very few people look under the hood
Well, I am sure some guys would buy the car with 250HP over a car with 200HP. :D

Unless we consider Horse Power as “features”, then yeah it’s looks and features.

And these SINAD numbers are also part of the features list. :D
 
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