The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[M Code]

For those that are interested, the mentioned turntable OE factory in Taiwan is Hanpin..
Here is link to their OE website, U will see some very familiar products marketed under different brand names..
http://www.hanpin.com.tw/4_Products_02.html


Just my $.02...

 

[panteragstk]

Today the DJ market is rapidly changing and the turntable is being replaced by a laptop or iPod as a music source MP3 player. Nobody wants to carry around a heavy bin with vinyl.. If U tour the Namm show U will note fewer & fewer DJs that can actually scratch.. While on the consumer side vinyl has had some recent sale success but now that is starting to fade. Regarding Shure cartridges they just announced they are discontinuing manufacturing phono cartridges, so U better stock up before the supply is gone..

Just my $0.02...

What's even more interesting is the quite a lot of DJ's still use turntables, but use vinyl that interfaces with their laptop so they can get the best of both worlds.

Serato Numark NS7 is just one example. You can also use full size tables and an audio interface and multiple software support this feature.

 

[M Code]

What's even more interesting is the quite a lot of DJ's still use turntables, but use vinyl that interfaces with their laptop so they can get the best of both worlds.

Serato Numark NS7 is just one example. You can also use full size tables and an audio interface and multiple software support this feature.

Serato is the DJ software out of New Zealnad, licensed to Pioneer, Rane, Denon, Numark takes the compressed MP3 stream in and tied together with an analog turntable/serato vinyl. Serato vinyl has tones on it so one can get the scratch sounds then mixed/overlayed with the music stream. We know a little about Serato being one of their SW beta testers.... Also part of the Serato SW is a BPS counter so U can sync (2) tracks 1 to another track..

Just my $0.02...

 

[sterling shoote]

i would argue that the current 1200G is a capable 'audiophile' TT, given it's price point it competes well beyond with plenty of compatible cartridges. Granted, it's tonearm is it's weak point but speed and pitch stability are second to none.

The SL-1200GR is $1699.99 from Guitar Center. I've not seen it on-line from any others. It is also available from about a dozen audio salons; but, Guitar Center has zero percent financing for 36 months. This turntable is clearly marketed to audiophiles, not DJ's. At any rate, it costs about 5 times what the Audio Technica 120 USB sells for. I bought one of those for my mother-in-law, and it sounds great; yet, I am thinking the Technics will better satisfy me. I wonder why the tonearm is considered it's weak link though. Seems to be exactly what the doctor ordered.

 

[Mikado463]

The SL-1200GR is $1699.99 from Guitar Center. I've not seen it on-line from any others. It is also available from about a dozen audio salons; but, Guitar Center has zero percent financing for 36 months. This turntable is clearly marketed to audiophiles, not DJ's. At any rate, it costs about 5 times what the Audio Technica 120 USB sells for. I bought one of those for my mother-in-law, and it sounds great; yet, I am thinking the Technics will better satisfy me. I wonder why the tonearm is considered it's weak link though. Seems to be exactly what the doctor ordered.

that price seems quite reasonable, note in my quote I'm speaking of the 'G' not the GR. While the GR is half the price of the G I'm sure it's more than 'half the table' !

 

[sterling shoote]

that price seems quite reasonable, note in my quote I'm speaking of the 'G' not the GR. While the GR is half the price of the G I'm sure it's more than 'half the table' !

Yeah, and in the $1700 price arena it appears highly qualified; but, I wonder about the tonearm, seems to me it would support pretty much any MM out there today. I also like Stevenson alignment ease with carts like the Ortofon PNPs.

 

[Mikado463]

, I wonder about the tonearm, seems to me it would support pretty much any MM out there today. .

and a good number of MC's as well ......

 

[M Code]

Technics makes a great product...
However the end sonic performance of an esoteric MC cartridge and tone arm damping capability/compatibility are pertinent....
Like changing loudspeakers since the MC cartridge and step-up device is a mechanical transducer be it a transformer or head amplifier can make a big difference. However in order to be able to hear differences one needs to very high resolution loudspeakers and amplifiers, plus the listening room should be treated.
I am certain the SL-1200R & G has a quality tone arm and to many will sound fine with a reasonable, quality cartridge...
The other part of the system equation for max sonics is the phono circuit of the preamplifier, since an MC cartridge/step-up device has more gain this requires more headroom which typically today is often lacking..

Just my $0.02...

 

[exthree]

I have an older Denon 4306 AVR in a multi-room setup paired with Definitive Tech 7.1 speaker system in the main listening room. I don't run video or HDTV through the AVR because the HDMI and some of the other connectors are first generation, and of course there is no bluetooth for input or output. I suppose a separates preamp could have been upgraded with these newer technologies, while retaining the core amp, turntable and speakers, but how close are we to the top of the new technology curve? Like buying a laptop, when to you buy or when do you wait for the next best processor/features?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My guess is, nothing in terms of audible sound quality, other than they tend to have inferior components relative to the 8000 series. If they would save a few cents to use the AK4458 instead the AK4490 in the 8000 series and the top Denon AVR models, you can expect they might have taken the same approach to other components. The DAC choice to me is just a tell tale thing, but I know few people would take notice of such little difference and read into it further. It is not just a one off thing either, in the older models, such as my AV8801 vs AV7701/02 and the Denon AVR-4520, you will find the same kind of difference.

That's why imo, the top D AVR models are better deals than the 2nd from the top M AVP/Amp combo. If you look at available bench test results, the top D AVR amps also showed better results than the Marantz MM7000 and even the MM8000 series amps.

I am not recommending the 8000 series either, and would only consider one of the previous year model at deep discounts if it comes with the full 3 year manufacturer warranty.

I meant to respond to this weeks ago.

If a lower-end $2,200 Marantz AV 7704 sounds equal to a higher-end $4,000 Marantz AV 8802 and you have to pay full price or get the same 38% off discount on both, is there a good reason to buy the AV 8802?

Since DACs are such a mature technology these days, does it matter?

Will the AV 8802 last longer than the 7704 ?

The 8802 has more internal parts than the 7704. Will this actually cause more complexity, heat, and chances of malfunction ?

Do older AVP/AVR (20 years ago) have less internal parts and complexities than these newer AVP/AVR that cram so much parts under the hood?

We can extrapolate this to other brands and model levels also.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...how close are we to the top of the new technology curve?

In terms of sound quality, I believe the technology has max'ed out, at least in Direct Mode.

But I think in terms of reliability, I think it's going backward because of more complexities, more parts, more heat, etc.

 

[KEW]

I meant to respond to this weeks ago.

If a lower-end $2,200 Marantz AV 7704 sounds equal to a higher-end $4,000 Marantz AV 8802 and you have to pay full price or get the same 38% off discount on both, is there a good reason to buy the AV 8802?

Since DACs are such a mature technology these days, does it matter?

Will the AV 8802 last longer than the 7704 ?

The 8802 has more internal parts than the 7704. Will this actually cause more complexity, heat, and chances of malfunction ?

Do older AVP/AVR (20 years ago) have less internal parts and complexities than these newer AVP/AVR that cram so much parts under the hood?

We can extrapolate this to other brands and model levels also.

Do you realize you are asking this question of someone who arguably knows as much as or more than anyone on AH about AVR/pre-pros, and after long thought, finally decided to simply get a Denon AVR-X3400?
Just sayin!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you realize you are asking this question of someone who arguable knows as much as or more than anyone on AH about AVR/pre-pros, and after long thought, finally decided to simply get a Denon AVR-X3400?
Just sayin!

Wait, what? @PENG got himself a Denon X3400. No way.

How did I miss that?

It must be for his 2nd or 3rd system, right?

 

[KEW]

Wait, what? @PENG got himself a Denon X3400. No way.

How did I miss that?

It must be for his 2nd or 3rd system, right?

He even dropped your name there (as if your head wasn't already big enough)!

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/stuck-in-a-denon-x6400h-x4400h-dilemma-your-advice-please.111302/page-2#post-1254040

scroll down to post #35 after the one above.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

He even dropped your name there (as if your head wasn't already big enough)!

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/stuck-in-a-denon-x6400h-x4400h-dilemma-your-advice-please.111302/page-2#post-1254040

scroll down to post #35 after the one above.

Oh, so it happened this last weekend when I was too busy helping out with the wedding for my sister-in-law. BTW, the worst wedding dinner foods I have ever eaten.

After the wedding dinner, pretty much most of the family and friends went back to my place to eat a 2nd dinner!


Looks like @PENG said he is upgrading from his Marantz AV 8801 (released 2012/13?) to the Denon X3400 (released 2017/18),which means his AV 8801 is about 5 years old?

My Denon AVP-A1 and AVR-5308 were both released in 2008. So my Denon's are like 10 years old!!!

I believe @sterling shoote Sony pre-pro is like 16 years old.

I'm looking to replace my 10YR Denon AVP-A1 and 5308, but I'm taking my time.

You might have seen me mentioned something about my AVP-A1 acting up the past few months with fluctuating volume depending on temperature and how I have to keep the stupid thing on for at least 3 hours for the volume to be high enough?

When my AVP-A1 fails (seems like only a matter of time),I'll still have my 10YR AVR-5308 for backup. But in the meantime I'm looking for a replacement.

Also still have my AVR-3312 and X3100, but they are getting old as well.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Speaking of receivers (AVR), I wish the manufacturers would remove the video portion of the AVR so that it would become just a multi-channel AR. That way the receiver would not become outdated so quickly. Put the 'video' portion in a separate hardware box so that as time progresses you either update the video box or just buy a new box. But keep using your multi-channel AR for many more years.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Speaking of receivers (AVR), I wish the manufacturers would remove the video portion of the AVR so that it would become just a multi-channel AR. That way the receiver would not become outdated so quickly. Put the 'video' portion in a separate hardware box so that as time progresses you either update the video box or just buy a new box. But keep using your multi-channel AR for many more years.

I think that might be a good idea if the AR/AP could last forever.

Also assuming that the Audio part doesn't change.

Some people gotta have ATMOS, DTS:X, and every new audio format that comes out.

And if the AVRs last no more than 5-10 years, might as well just replace the whole Audio-Video every 5-10 years.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My idea of the perfect system: Separate 3-piece System.

-Pure Analog Amps that last 30 years (amp modules can easily be replaced)
-Pure Analog Preamps (no tones/DSP/EQ, preamp modules can easily be replaced) that last 30 years
-Audio-Video Module Box (10 LBS) that you can easily ship in for a replacement Audio-Video module

The idea is to keep things as "simple" as possible, not cram a million cards and processors into one box.

 

[KEW]

Speaking of receivers (AVR),I wish the manufacturers would remove the video portion of the AVR so that it would become just a multi-channel AR. That way the receiver would not become outdated so quickly. Put the 'video' portion in a separate hardware box so that as time progresses you either update the video box or just buy a new box. But keep using your multi-channel AR for many more years.

I agree, but would go one further and remove all processing from the AVR, making audio and video processing in another box. Maybe even have separate boxes for the audio and the video processing!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I agree, but would go on further and remove all processing from the AVR, making audio and video processing in another box. Maybe even have separate boxes for the audio and the video processing!

It seems the Analog audio parts are reliable (Bryston willing to warranty all Analog Amps and Preamps for 20 YR).

It is the digital AV processing section that is not as reliable (most warranty 2-3 YR, some maybe 5 YR at most).