The Qana propaganda machine

[highfihoney]

Rockets vs. missiles.

Helicopters vs. fighter jets.

Handguns vs. battle tanks.

Not much of a strategy.

 

[jaxvon]

Yes, they broadcast all that TERRORIST PROPAGANDA!! What about all the American propaganda they broadcast? They're just giving the others an equal opportunity to spread fabricated BS.

 

[conseit68]

just a thought form what some might consider a wrapped mind...

IMO the concept of war is ignorant. Choosing sides, fighting for simply different beliefs, wars in the name of religion, money, or crude oil. It is no more than an exaggerated version of the "highschool" metality. Either tring to impose there own thoughts or kick the people out for a monetary gain or control. One day, most if not everyone in the world should understand that even if you were able to wipe out those that you didn't care for or thought were "inferior", those bullies would just fight each other until there was either one lonely a$$h@!e left or simpley a completely destroyed land and bloody seas. You have to figure that most of the smaller countries in the world hate the US among other larger powers, and rightfully so. Example, we (the US) have become so consentrated on money, power and fear of weapons that we probably sold off in the first place, that all we can do at this point is spend billions of dollars in a pathetic attempt to thawrt the "world" from whipping our tails and sending us over in the corner crying. One day we are going to piss off so many people, that we will have 0 chance of success. In my opinion, and again this is just my opinion, the United States of America, in which I truly love and believe the greatest land on earth, needs to drop the smoke screen that has been going for 50+ years, forget about controlling everyone else, drop the political correctness crap and truly attempt to make OUR country a better place. Stop concentrating on starving countries over seas when there are millions of starving right out front. Publicly apologize to the world from sticking our noses into things that didn't concern us in the first place or the killing million of people to try to impose our thoughts or govenment structure (which is sad anyway). Allow our scientists to complete research needed to cure things like cancer and aids with stemcells. Hell, I would be happy at this point if they could cure the common cold. Or, how about allowing the patients that the oil companies have bought up and buried for vehicles that run on water (MIT design) or free non-fossil burning energy that has been known about but "unavailable" due to some rich, fat, jackass' that are scared to death that thier bank accounts are going to drop from 5 billion to 4 billion. It is a sad state of affairs that our country is in and all the media can do is talk about other countries problems. Lets start here...fix us...if two countries want to beat each other up, then fine...let 'em. It is simply not our problem or our place to try and be peacekeeper of the world. We have enough war, fighting, gangs, poverty, and drugs truly occupy a "corrected" govenment for many years. Us as a people, need to re-evaluate our priorities in life, what happend to family and friends simply being happy with time spent with each other? Not if Joe Blow down the street has built a garage that dosen't meet the HOA rules. Or how about spending real time with your kids and not just throwing them in front of a television so they can learn absolutely nothing about character, honesty, and morals. In either event people as a whole need to wake up out of this sumber they have been in and demand resolve with the government for our own countries problems. Allow me to end this rant by saying that I am sure many disagree with what I have said, but please understand that I love this country and I love the men and women that have died proudly protecting us from harm. I just believe that we (our government) has put our own a$$ in this hotseat and time is truly running out for the damage to be repaired. Thanks for listening.

 

[badboodah]

This is just like the "embedded reporters." They knew unfiltered views of war, along with shots of caskets coming home, would erode support. They learned that lesson with Vietnam. That's why they have embedded reporters now, and why no pictures are allowed of any caskets coming home. The government has to control the images that the public sees.


But it seems like people's memories only go back a few months. There is much more history behind this. It's not like the whole thing started when 2 soldiers were kidnapped. Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon 24-odd years ago, and were there until 2000 (still some occupation since then) when they were pushed out (by Hezullah). Israel still has thousands of Lebanese prisoners in its jails. The 2 kidnapped prisoners were supposed to be leverage to negotiate for the release of the prisoners held by Israel.

Hezbullah got stronger with the Lebanese public with each Israeli bomb dropped.


I'm not taking sides - I think both sides are way out of line. But the US/UK media's reporting sucks with regards to context. If you want to hear the side of the story not reported in the regular media, this is a must-watch:
http://getintheirface.blogspot.com/2006/08/peace-is-not-just-absence-of-conflict.html

Not that he is any more or less right than anyone else. But I hate only hearing one side of the argument. Nothing will ever get solved if both sides aren't heard. If you sit on a jury and only hear one side of the case, of course you are going to rule in favor of that side. That's why both sides get a chance to present their case.


The only difference between terrorists and national armies are that armies have uniforms and better equipment.

 

[highfihoney]

The only difference between terrorists and national armies are that armies have uniforms and better equipment.

Surely you cant really believe that statement,or can you?

 

[JoeE SP9]

IMO the concept of war is ignorant. Choosing sides, fighting for simply different beliefs, wars in the name of religion, money, or crude oil. It is no more than an exaggerated version of the "highschool" metality. Either tring to impose there own thoughts or kick the people out for a monetary gain or control. One day, most if not everyone in the world should understand that even if you were able to wipe out those that you didn't care for or thought were "inferior", those bullies would just fight each other until there was either one lonely a$$h@!e left or simpley a completely destroyed land and bloody seas. You have to figure that most of the smaller countries in the world hate the US among other larger powers, and rightfully so. Example, we (the US) have become so consentrated on money, power and fear of weapons that we probably sold off in the first place, that all we can do at this point is spend billions of dollars in a pathetic attempt to thawrt the "world" from whipping our tails and sending us over in the corner crying. One day we are going to piss off so many people, that we will have 0 chance of success. In my opinion, and again this is just my opinion, the United States of America, in which I truly love and believe the greatest land on earth, needs to drop the smoke screen that has been going for 50+ years, forget about controlling everyone else, drop the political correctness crap and truly attempt to make OUR country a better place. Stop concentrating on starving countries over seas when there are millions of starving right out front. Publicly apologize to the world from sticking our noses into things that didn't concern us in the first place or the killing million of people to try to impose our thoughts or govenment structure (which is sad anyway). Allow our scientists to complete research needed to cure things like cancer and aids with stemcells. Hell, I would be happy at this point if they could cure the common cold. Or, how about allowing the patients that the oil companies have bought up and buried for vehicles that run on water (MIT design) or free non-fossil burning energy that has been known about but "unavailable" due to some rich, fat, jackass' that are scared to death that thier bank accounts are going to drop from 5 billion to 4 billion. It is a sad state of affairs that our country is in and all the media can do is talk about other countries problems. Lets start here...fix us...if two countries want to beat each other up, then fine...let 'em. It is simply not our problem or our place to try and be peacekeeper of the world. We have enough war, fighting, gangs, poverty, and drugs truly occupy a "corrected" govenment for many years. Us as a people, need to re-evaluate our priorities in life, what happend to family and friends simply being happy with time spent with each other? Not if Joe Blow down the street has built a garage that dosen't meet the HOA rules. Or how about spending real time with your kids and not just throwing them in front of a television so they can learn absolutely nothing about character, honesty, and morals. In either event people as a whole need to wake up out of this sumber they have been in and demand resolve with the government for our own countries problems. Allow me to end this rant by saying that I am sure many disagree with what I have said, but please understand that I love this country and I love the men and women that have died proudly protecting us from harm. I just believe that we (our government) has put our own a$$ in this hotseat and time is truly running out for the damage to be repaired. Thanks for listening.

The major thing you are overlooking is the aim of all Islam. Followers of Islam want an Islamic world. Radical followers of Islam want a world like Afghanistan was when the Taliban ruled there. I don't know about you but I have no desire to live in a world dominated by Islam. It comes down to them or us and I vote for us.

 

[highfihoney]

The major thing you are overlooking is the aim of all Islam. Followers of Islam want an Islamic world. Radical followers of Islam want a world like Afghanistan was when the Taliban ruled there. I don't know about you but I have no desire to live in a world dominated by Islam. It comes down to them or us and I vote for us.

yup,so very true.

A great man once wrote.

You cant run a country from a book of relegion,not by a heap or a lump or a smidgeon of foolish rules of ancient date designed to make you all feel great while you fold spindle & mutilate the unbelievers from the neighboring state.

 

[surveyor]

yup,so very true.

A great man once wrote.

You cant run a country from a book of relegion,not by a heap or a lump or a smidgeon of foolish rules of ancient date designed to make you all feel great while you fold spindle & mutilate the unbelievers from the neighboring state.

Here's an example why. Please view the video at:http://www.youtube.com/v/-HlaVpqUXF0

 

[highfihoney]

Here's an example why. Please view the video at:http://www.youtube.com/v/-HlaVpqUXF0

Great example............. too bad all the people who believe that if we leave them alone they wont bother us or our allies wont hear one word of it & will rationalize it with some clever saying like guerilla warfare vs military warfare.

The nuttiest part of that video to me is the father speaking of how proud he is to have lost a son in a car bombing & that he is prepared for the rest of his children to suffer the same fate,WTF.

There is no greater pain for a man than to loose a child & for that idiot of a father to say he is prepared to sacrifice the rest of his children in the same way shows that these types of peoples thought patterns are psychotic & cant be dealt with in a political fashion.

Israel has the right idea,zero tolerance.

 

[surveyor]

Great example............. too bad all the people who believe that if we leave them alone they wont bother us or our allies wont hear one word of it & will rationalize it with some clever saying like guerilla warfare vs military warfare.

The nuttiest part of that video to me is the father speaking of how proud he is to have lost a son in a car bombing & that he is prepared for the rest of his children to suffer the same fate,WTF.

There is no greater pain for a man than to loose a child & for that idiot of a father to say he is prepared to sacrifice the rest of his children in the same way shows that these types of peoples thought patterns are psychotic & cant be dealt with in a political fashion.

Israel has the right idea,zero tolerance.

Thank you sir!
I value the fact that people have the right to live and let live.
But the terrorists just don't see it that way.
I don't know the answer, but running from these insane zealots is not a solution, IMO.

 

[JoeE SP9]

On several forums I have been saying the aim of Islam is an Islamic world. The radical Muslims are willing to fight for that by sacrificing themselves and their children. The moderate and conservative Muslims are content to support the radicals morally and monetarily and wait for the outcome they want. The only choices we westerners have is to actively support and fight for our way of life or wrap a towel around our heads, cover up all the women and convert to Islam. We will then all be forced to live in the kind of society the Taliban had in Afghanistan. I for one have no desire to live in that kind of world. The only solution is to get rid of Islam. Unleash the Israelis and look the other way when they nuke most of the Middle East. We can chastise them publicly afterwords and congratulate them in private.

 

[Takeereasy]

Hey JoeE. You don't really believe that we should nuke all the Muslims do you? If that's really the case shouldn't we nuke all hardcore Christians? Or should we save them for last so that we can make sure they eliminate all the other religious belief systems as well? Every religion thinks that the world would be better off if everyone practised the same beliefs and lifestyle as them. I give to you the Crusades, witch burning, Bataan Death March, Chinese (athiest) invasion of Tibet, Holocaust, et al, et al.......

Do you have any proof that moderate Muslims are footing the bill for global terrorist attacks, or is that a personal theory?

Look, I'm no sympathizer with any type of terrorist activities. I don't give two hoots if terrorists were all tortured to death. In fact I think it would be fitting. But to put a blanket staement about all muslims out there is a little over the top IMO. To be honest I'm a little scared of the Islamic religion, and I do find myself fighting down the urge to feel the way you do. I don't however believe that all Muslims are terrorists. All major religions go through dark periods it seems.

I'm not saying I'm not angry with the images on the news. I'm not saying lies and propoganda are OK. I'm not saing anything done or anything anyone is planning to do to the US is ok. What I am saying is that I believe it is horribly wrong to advocate the wholesale slaughter of innocent people. If your arguement is that no people practicing Islam are innocent then you should examine your mindset. That is the same type of rationale used by certain "others" to justify their actions.

 

[JoeE SP9]

Hey JoeE. You don't really believe that we should nuke all the Muslims do you? If that's really the case shouldn't we nuke all hardcore Christians? Or should we save them for last so that we can make sure they eliminate all the other religious belief systems as well? Every religion thinks that the world would be better off if everyone practised the same beliefs and lifestyle as them. I give to you the Crusades, witch burning, Bataan Death March, Chinese (athiest) invasion of Tibet, Holocaust, et al, et al.......

Do you have any proof that moderate Muslims are footing the bill for global terrorist attacks, or is that a personal theory?

Look, I'm no sympathizer with any type of terrorist activities. I don't give two hoots if terrorists were all tortured to death. In fact I think it would be fitting. But to put a blanket staement about all Muslims out there is a little over the top IMO. To be honest I'm a little scared of the Islamic religion, and I do find myself fighting down the urge to feel the way you do. I don't however believe that all Muslims are terrorists. All major religions go through dark periods it seems.

I'm not saying I'm not angry with the images on the news. I'm not saying lies and propoganda are OK. I'm not saing anything done or anything anyone is planning to do to the US is ok. What I am saying is that I believe it is horribly wrong to advocate the wholesale slaughter of innocent people. If your arguement is that no people practicing Islam are innocent then you should examine your mindset. That is the same type of rationale used by certain "others" to justify their actions.

It is quite well known that Saudi money finances Al Queda and other extremist groups. Saudi textbooks in their public schools advocate the elimination of Israel and the establishment of a world of Islam. Yes, I say kill them all. Muslims want a Muslim world. Afghanistan is an example of what kind of world Muslims want. I have no desire to live in that kind of society.
The major difference between them and you is they are willing and even eager to die for their vision of what the world should be. While most Americans sit on their thumbs and hope that rational thought and negotiation will cool things out radical Muslims are strapping on sticks of dynamite and planning missions to blow up airliners.
If you are not willing to fight to keep your freedoms you will loose them because you will be dead. You'll be killed by someone who is willing to fight and eager to die for their beliefs.

 

[Takeereasy]

I understand what you're saying Joe, and I know it has been proven that money sources come from SA. What I don't believe there is is a mass Muslim conspiricy to destroy or convert the whole world. I think the best term you used there is "radical". It is the extremists that we need to worry about, not your average Muslim who just wants to live a life free of bombing and fighting.

Now for the question of how to weed out the wackos from the normal population. I have no idea how. All I know is that I'm tired of the innocent suffering for the guilty. I wish I had the answers but I don't. Nuking the Islamic countries is a nifty "Final Solution", but remember how the world felt about the last Final Solution.

I have to say I find it Ironic that the USA was founded on the principal of Religious freedom, yet so many of it's citizens would consider stripping away another nations right to practise said freedoms.

I don't approve of the more "medieval" practises that take place in some Muslim countries. For example the sexism, the beatings, stonings, etc... But not all muslim countries do this. Many are progressive, and almost all countries in the world want to be more like the west, especially the USA.

I don't know, maybe I just see the world through rose coloured glasses.

 

[Tomorrow]

I have to say I find it Ironic that the USA was founded on the principal of Religious freedom, yet so many of it's citizens would consider stripping away another nations right to practise said freedoms.

I don't approve of the more "medieval" practises that take place in some Muslim countries. For example the sexism, the beatings, stonings, etc... But not all muslim countries do this. Many are progressive, and almost all countries in the world want to be more like the west, especially the USA.

I don't know, maybe I just see the world through rose coloured glasses.

First I just wanna say....It's good to have you back!

I want to agree with what you've said, Takeer. But I also bow to my own hesitations. Organized religion has been a sorry source of mass murder for centuries...and this probably includes every major religion in history. So...I guess there is nothing new here.

However, some factors in the history and current political climate of the Middle East seem to point to increasing violence and rabid, extremist Muslim views. The countries you point to that are "progressive" still have vestiges of medieval practices AND are generally dictatorships (SA, Lybia, Pakistan, UAE, etc). And even in these states, the kings and dictators need to bow to pressures from the radical Muslim element (for fear of revolt ala Iran). Where strong dictators have been overthown, then oops, there goes the neighborhood...tossed into the hands of the seriously radical factions with the will (and equipment) to fight and die for their religious beliefs. As Black Panther founder Huey Newton said, "Power comes from the barrel of a gun." That's why the Taliban took over Afghanistan, why Hamas runs Palestine, why Hezbollah 'rules' Lebanon, the Ayatollahs lead Iran, etc. The area is turning more and more toward Muslim Republics, led by the radical elements. These are the same elements that burn Israeli and American flags and chant "Death to the Infidels" by the tens or hundreds of thousands.

The $64 question of course is what to do with them. I don't think Joe's nuke option is on the table (for now). But this is mighty serious business. What would you do if this radical element overthrows the leadership in Pakistan...thereby gaining enough nuclear weapons to waste all the "Infidels" in the area (instead of using 150 lb. ballbearing warheads on 20 mile range rockets as Hezbollah has)? Pretty dicey, me thinks.

 

[Takeereasy]

Thanks for the nice words RJ. I'm in the office for a few weeks so I have some online time.

As for the whole situation I agree with you totally. I wish I had some difinitive answers as to what is right or wrong, or any kind of a solution for what is happening in the middle east. The truth is I don't. Wiping out a civilization isn't the answer though. Maybe some kind of zealot smart bomb?

Anyone can twist a religion to make it a hate machine. You can interpret the bible, torah, koran, and just about any religious doctorine in just about any way to make it suit your personal feelings and beliefs. When people do this because of a need to embrace something higher, or because it is a place where their faith belongs it's a beautiful thing. When people interpret to convince themselves that malevolent feelings and actions are condoned by a higher power, thereby removing blame from them, or thereby encouraging such feelings and actions in others, religion becomes a terrible thing.

I am scared to death of what might happen due to conflict in the middle east. I won't go to Times Square this New Years with friends in part because I think that it is a good target for terrorism.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm out of ideas on the whole topic. I'm not out of opinions mind you, just ideas.

 

[JoeE SP9]

First I just wanna say....It's good to have you back!

I want to agree with what you've said, Takeer. But I also bow to my own hesitations. Organized religion has been a sorry source of mass murder for centuries...and this probably includes every major religion in history. So...I guess there is nothing new here.

However, some factors in the history and current political climate of the Middle East seem to point to increasing violence and rabid, extremist Muslim views. The countries you point to that are "progressive" still have vestiges of medieval practices AND are generally dictatorships (SA, Lybia, Pakistan, UAE, etc). And even in these states, the kings and dictators need to bow to pressures from the radical Muslim element (for fear of revolt ala Iran). Where strong dictators have been overthown, then oops, there goes the neighborhood...tossed into the hands of the seriously radical factions with the will (and equipment) to fight and die for their religious beliefs. As Black Panther founder Huey Newton said, "Power comes from the barrel of a gun." That's why the Taliban took over Afghanistan, why Hamas runs Palestine, why Hezbollah 'rules' Lebanon, the Ayatollahs lead Iran, etc. The area is turning more and more toward Muslim Republics, led by the radical elements. These are the same elements that burn Israeli and American flags and chant "Death to the Infidels" by the tens or hundreds of thousands.

The $64 question of course is what to do with them. I don't think Joe's nuke option is on the table (for now). But this is mighty serious business. What would you do if this radical element overthrows the leadership in Pakistan...thereby gaining enough nuclear weapons to waste all the "Infidels" in the area (instead of using 150 lb. ballbearing warheads on 20 mile range rockets as Hezbollah has)? Pretty dicey, me thinks.

It's good to see someone else putting two and two together getting four and accepting the result. Too many westerners and specifically Americans think that our history of tolerance and open minds can somehow be transferred to radical Islamists. NOT!!!