The 'Net Neutrality' Thread

[jinjuku]

Quoted from Jack Hammer:

"I had to write an paper in shcool on the history of the internet. This really isn't all that different from how it got going. IIRC it took ~20 years for it to become mainstream and popular.

I could realistically see everyone moving to this in the next 10 or more years. I think the current version will still be around for a bit.

Jack"

The Internet was started as a D/ARPANET project to keep communications up in an age of potential nuclear annihilation. It matriculated to facilitating communications amongst agencies and universities.

BTW, I had a dial up static IP SLIP connection to the internet on my Amiga 500 in 88'. Used Pine/Lynx/Elm etc...

WEB 2.0 is really nothing more than making 1.0 async. Basically making a hack of the HTTP protocol. Internet 2.0 is IPV6 based which will massively reduce routing tables and complexity whilst upping bandwidth and lowering latency. Better make the switch over quick, some estimates have the public address pool being exhausted bye 2012.

Net Neutrality needs to stay in place. If it doesn't, as always, greed will get the better of the the mega-corporations and then the field won't be all so level. The bandwidth allocation paradigm as currently set up is fine. You pay for what you get.

 

[markw]

I remember dialing into Compuserve and some other thing in the early 80's (before '84) when I was going to school and working at RatShack.

Heck, I remember Visicalc, the forerunner of Excel from '82 when I sold only TRS-80's in their computer center

 

[jinjuku]

I remember dialing into Compuserve and some other thing in the early 80's (before '84) when I was going to school and working at RatShack.

Heck, I remember Visicalc, the forerunner of Excel from '82 when I sold only TRS-80's in their computer center

Compuserve is a name long forgotten. I had the chance to tour their HQ in Columbus Ohio. I had my first computer in 85 (Atari 800) My Amiga came in May of 88', by brother was at the house when it came. He came to my High school and got me out of class. That was 9th grade. My grades went to pot after that That and a USR Sportster 14.4 with long *** connection strings. Must have been on 20 different BBS's. Co-sysop'd on 5 of them. Then there was the glorious SLIP connection to AA Blueprint. Ah, Usenet archives, FTP. Okay, I am going to tear up now...

 

[jfalk]

I was of course purposely trying to be provocative, but people who are really interested in this stuff ought to progress past simplistic notions like the "greed of mega-corporations." I highly recommend Fred Kahn's piece on net neutrality published at aei-brookings.org. The link is admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/RP07-05_topost.pdf (sorry for the non-urled link. I need 5 posts before they'll let me link). In particular, Kahn notes:
"The only way to avoid unacceptable congestion and degradation of service is to give operators the ability to manage traffic on their networks, expediting some data (phone calls, streaming video, or remote medical monitoring, diagnoses and treatment) over less time-sensitive data (such as ordinary e-mail). No one, to my knowledge, disputes the fact that some
services do indeed require that kind of priority handling."

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
"The only way to avoid unacceptable congestion and degradation of service is to give operators the ability to manage traffic on their networks, ...."

Don't we have recent experience with industry self regulating?
I don't think the outcome was so good.

Even our leader is having 2nd thoughts.

 

[jinjuku]

I was of course purposely trying to be provocative, but people who are really interested in this stuff ought to progress past simplistic notions like the "greed of mega-corporations." I highly recommend Fred Kahn's piece on net neutrality published at aei-brookings.org. The link is admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/RP07-05_topost.pdf (sorry for the non-urled link. I need 5 posts before they'll let me link). In particular, Kahn notes:
"The only way to avoid unacceptable congestion and degradation of service is to give operators the ability to manage traffic on their networks, expediting some data (phone calls, streaming video, or remote medical monitoring, diagnoses and treatment) over less time-sensitive data (such as ordinary e-mail). No one, to my knowledge, disputes the fact that some
services do indeed require that kind of priority handling."

I am totally past simplistic notions. I have been banging away on Cisco/Adtran/Livingtson/Moto for 12 years now. I understand the complexities of routing/management/traffic shaping/load balance etc... Please don't insult the posters here like you are going to be able to 'teach a lesson'. I have been IP'd for 19 years and 10 months almost to the day... How long you been at it?

What I am NOT in favor of is privatizing it and letting greed talk. Vint Cerf is even in favor of some form of neutrality standard.

So WHO gets to decide what traffic gets what QOS? That is the bigger question.

 

[Midcow2]

A long long time ago ...

..I have been IP'd for 19 years and 10 months almost to the day... How long you been at it?

e a lot longer than thta about 20 more years to be exact. One of my first projects was to develop an identification system in assembler language for 2741 operator consoles on an IBM 360/40 main frame with 128K total memory. There was Ge time sharing at 110 Baud (two start bits, 7 data bits , parity and one stop bit) for 10 cps. Then came acoustic couplers at 300 baud a phenominal speed increase. There was not interactive except GE Timesharing long before Compuserve. A then you used A TI (Texa Instruments) Silent 700 which weighted some 40 pounds and used thermal paper. Then came my 48K Atari 800; it actually go me an A+ in business policy graduate course when I develop a linear programming model to model pricing, raw material quantity, salemans adverstising and salary. Then later the Amiga 1000. But he we are talking about two things : QOS and Ubiquitous. There at one time was going to be a priviate intenret 2 with guaranteed QOS, but it was not ubiquitous. It is still suprising that InterNic and some other organizations have as much control as they go on domain structure. Maybe in a private network bandwidth management can be achieved, but not on the Internet for the foreseeable future.

I remember when the saying was "Never trust anyone over 30". Reflecting now, maybe it should be "Never trust anyone under 30".

Oh and by the way Al Gore did not invent the Internet as he is so prone to claim

 

[Rickster71]

A Silent 700. I'm gonna get a little bit verklempt.
(talk amongst yourselves for a moment..)
I haven't used one since 1985, my AT&T days.
I threw it out a few years ago, while cleaning the basement.

Al Gore didn't invent the internet?
Well, he did invent Global Warming.

 

[jinjuku]

e a lot longer than thta about 20 more years to be exact. One of my first projects was to develop an identification system in assembler language for 2741 operator consoles on an IBM 360/40 main frame with 128K total memory. There was Ge time sharing at 110 Baud (two start bits, 7 data bits , parity and one stop bit) for 10 cps. Then came acoustic couplers at 300 baud a phenominal speed increase. There was not interactive except GE Timesharing long before Compuserve. A then you used A TI (Texa Instruments) Silent 700 which weighted some 40 pounds and used thermal paper. Then came my 48K Atari 800; it actually go me an A+ in business policy graduate course when I develop a linear programming model to model pricing, raw material quantity, salemans adverstising and salary. Then later the Amiga 1000. But he we are talking about two things : QOS and Ubiquitous. There at one time was going to be a priviate intenret 2 with guaranteed QOS, but it was not ubiquitous. It is still suprising that InterNic and some other organizations have as much control as they go on domain structure. Maybe in a private network bandwidth management can be achieved, but not on the Internet for the foreseeable future.

I remember when the saying was "Never trust anyone over 30". Reflecting now, maybe it should be "Never trust anyone under 30".

Oh and by the way Al Gore did not invent the Internet as he is so prone to claim

Ah, You are what we call a long beard

The A1000 wasn't released when I got my Atari 800. I remember that with the A1000 you could get 768K if you zapped the 'Writable Control Storage'. The keyboard garage was another nice feature.

 

[Midcow2]

If there were no spammers on the Internet ...

... There would be plenty of bandwidth. But, the problem is that person wants that one tenth of one percent spam email that has a new gimmick they want! So spam continues to survive; now estimated to be 92% of all Internet SMTP (email) traffic.

Ah, You are what we call a long beard

Chronologically challenged