the importance of the first watt and below

[fuzz092888]

Yeah, I've read Nelson's entire website before. I really enjoy his thinking, analysis, design skills, and writing style. I wish I could be an intern for him. I doubt I'd ever be a customer for his First Watt amps, but obviously I admire the guy. I would be a potential customer for his Pass Labs stuff, but I can't bring myself to spend that much on amps and pre-amps anymore, when the el-cheapo ATI amp that I use sounds awesome. (Ha! El-cheapo by comparison, let's say.)

You could always keep an eye out for his older stuff. Those Threshold amps are something else. If you can pick up an S/500 and then give it a little trip to Jon Soderberg the thing will be practically brand new and last another 20 years.

 

[Irvrobinson]

You could always keep an eye out for his older stuff. Those Threshold amps are something else. If you can pick up an S/500 and then give it a little trip to Jon Soderberg the thing will be practically brand new and last another 20 years.

Actually, the monsters I've had my eye out for are a pair of SA-12e, but it would be pure self-indulgence. I can't believe I'd hear an advantage over the ATI.

 

[PENG]

What's that? Is that like cross talk? I don't understand that either but if I guess right the Marantz monoblocks would be immune, right? How's the Bryston for heat output? Seems like that's of as much interest to me as all this watt1 stuff.

Nothing to do with cross talk. In addition to Steve's, the link below does not go technically deep but it is an easy read on distortions. Again, something like the Emotiva flag ship, Bryston, Anthem amps have less than 0.05% THD+N all the way down to near 0 watt so really not much to worry about regardless of the types of distortions. At higher level such as >0.1% then I would be curious about the details of the distortions. At >0.5% I definitely would not buy the amp unless I know more about the distortion's spectrum. And of course I am still talking about distortions from 0 to rated output.

Distortion

 

[fuzz092888]

Actually, the monsters I've had my eye out for are a pair of SA-12e, but it would be pure self-indulgence. I can't believe I'd hear an advantage over the ATI.

Those certainly are awesome amps. I'd love to see a pair of those or the SA/1's come up for sale. I'm partial to the SA/1's for the meters, maybe someday.

 

[Ampdog]

In the company of so many esteemed 'should-be-listened-to's, I will tread carefully ....

One should consider that THD +N is usually stated as a % of the relevant output, which means that at low output the artifacts can easily be below threshold of hearing; calculation of absolute values will mostly show that.

Then I invariably find an extra frown coming on when the effect of cross-over distortion is still mentioned in these days. I would think that with any kosher design that would be eliminated automatically, rather like more than adequate frequency response comes automatically when taking care of other parameters. In practice one can see the cross-over distortion disappear into the noise level as the standing current is increased, as Steve alluded in his post #14. (In my own 80W design it has gone long before my optimal level of 75mA q. current for the power stage is reached.) In that sense, while I have no problem with first-watt arguments, I must agree with Irv (post #8) regarding the importance of the first watt performance per se.

Then I can also support the stance of Peng (post#23) regarding the importance of what THD consists of. Particularly with ss amplifiers, members will probably know about threatening high order harmonic products and their effect. I myself concentrate on the elimination of these as first priority in my own design work. (It is often revealing to what extent these still exist in otherwise lauded designs, as shown up in test graphs in eg. Stereophile.)

 

[Alex2507]

In the company of so many esteemed 'should-be-listened-to's, I will tread carefully ....

Do you feel any different now?

 

[PENG]

Do you feel any different now?

And don't you, now that you have those big amps and know more about distortions that are likely below your hearing threshold but probably not below your feeling threshold?

 

[Alex2507]

And don't you, now that you have those big amps and know more about distortions that are likely below your hearing threshold but probably not below your feeling threshold?

I haven't done the required reading ...

It's how I stay humble!

I was waiting until I read some of the linked material in here to ask better questions and to thank everybody for participating. I'm going to have to thank Irv a second time for translating English into English for me and Adam always impresses me with his understanding of how heat works.

One of the things I love about this forum is the intelligent responses I get when I try to understand stuff. The flip side is that it takes more effort to read the responses than it does to ask the questions. Right about now I'm more interested in taking a nap, having just eaten some chicken parm and a large eclair for breakfast. The joys of slackin'. God, I love days off.

 

[Adam]

Do you feel any different now?

You're a good man.

...and Adam always impresses me with his understanding of how heat works.

You constantly impress me with how well you remember things and make connections, and how quickly you learn. I expect that pretty soon, I'll be buying one of the early bird Kickstarter MonkeyAmps...or kicking myself because I didn't see them fast enough, and now I have to pay another $10. Yep, I also have a good understanding of how cheap works.