The format that refuse to die!

[stratman]

After all the crying, after all the cursing, lamentations and threats, it seems that HD DVD refuses to die! So it begs the question, will Toshiba lose money in the long run? An interesting story filed by Paul Sweeting gives an eye opening review of the current status of the now-defunct HD DVD.

HD DVD: Still made in China? (Updated) - March 6, 2008


Toshiba may have quit making HD DVD players for Japan and the West but the format may yet have life in China. According to the minutes of the DVD Forum Steering Committee meeting on Feb. 27, now posted on the Forum web site, the committee approved some final technical changes to the long-gestating China-only version of the format, a.k.a. China HD DVD Format and CH DVD. Thus blessed, the format was then essentially turned over to a consortium of Chinese industry and government groups to oversee future developments, subject to "reporting" back to the DVD Forum on their activities.

Henceforth, China HD DVD will be overseen by the China High Definition DVD Industry Assn. (CHDA), and the Optical Memory National Engineering Research Center (OMNERC), which is backed by the government.

All of which suggests to Media Wonk that someone still expects there to be a henceforth with respect to HD DVD in China.

What is China HD DVD? It's basically HD DVD with some Chinese-developed audio/video codecs in place of the Japanese and Western-developed ones approved for the original HD DVD format as well as for Blu-ray. The original goal of its Chinese backers was both to promote Chinese technology and to reduce the royalty stack Chinese manufacturers would have to pay to Japanese and Western patent owners to make HD DVD players for the Chinese market.

When Toshiba decided to pull the plug, however, many people (OK, Media Wonk) thought that was the end of China HD DVD as well. But the plug-pulling happened well before the Steering Committee meeting where final specs for China were approved and they went ahead and approved them anyway.

According to some auto-translated versions of Chinese press reports about the DVD Forum meeting, the CHDA is still planning to roll out CH DVD at the end of May (which seems a tad ambitious to Media Wonk, but still...).

What would it mean to high-def formats generally if a version of HD DVD were to live on in China? In contrast to the DVD Forum, the Blu-ray Disc Assn. never approved the adoption of Chinese technology in Blu-ray. So any Blu-ray players that turn up in China will have Japanese brand names, which means they'll be far more expensive than locally produced and branded CH DVD players. If high-def players take off in China (still a big "if") it could create a significant installed base of (essentially) HD DVD players, given the size of the Chinese market.

Sources tell Media Wonk, in fact, that at least some major U.S. studios, alert to the potential, are not writing off the possibility of eventually releasing product in China on CH DVD. That "some" could even include stalwart Blu-ray supporters here, Media Wonk is told.

And wouldn't that be something.

UPDATE: A Toshiba spokesperson in Japan tells Media Wonk via email that "the file specifications, application specifications and content protection system are under discussion for standardization at CHDA." In other words, most of the software in the players would be Chinese while the physical format would be Toshiba's.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I've asked the question before but haven't heard an answer...

What is the size of the market in China?

We aren't talking about the population of China here, anyone that talks about a billion people is just fooling themselves.

I mean - what is the population of HDTV owning Chinese people with money to blow on a HD player?

 

[stratman]

I've asked the question before but haven't heard an answer...

What is the size of the market in China?

We aren't talking about the population of China here, anyone that talks about a billion people is just fooling themselves.

I mean - what is the population of HDTV owning Chinese people with money to blow on a HD player?

I won't post the whole thing, it's rather large, but follow the link, it's pretty informative in regards to your question.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-29-2007/0004653302&EDATE=


Here are some details:

CCID Consulting: Overview of China's Consumer Electronics Market in First Half of 2007



.
Table 2 Sales Volume and Growth in China's Consumer Electronics
Market in First Half of 2007

Sales Volume 2006H1 2007H1 Year-on-Year Growth
(10,000 sets)

Flat panel TV 145.8 330.7 126.8%
MP3 332.0 445.5 34.2%
PMP 20.0 59.0 195.0%
Mobile hard disk 68.0 77.0 13.2%
Flash disk 405.0 524.0 29.4%
Digital camera 316.4 376.9 19.1%
Digital video camera 59.4 71.5 20.4%
Source: CCID Consulting, July 2007


Table 2 Sales Revenues and Growth in China's Consumer Electronics
Market in First Half of 2007

Sales Revenues 2006H1 2007H1 Year-on-Year Growth
(100 million Yuan)

Flat panel TV 166.5 286.2 71.9%
MP3 20.0 21.7 8.5%
PMP 4.7 11.8 151.1%
Mobile hard disk 8.1 8.5 4.9%
Flash disk 10.3 10.6 2.9%
Digital camera 68.7 75.6 10.0%
Digital video camera 27.4 32.5 18.6%
Source: CCID Consulting, July 2007


2. Industry characteristics
(a) Flat panel TVs: Overall market size continues to grow, while the
pattern of competition is changing.
In the first half of 2007, foreign brands continued to make big price
cuts. This greatly increased their sales. Domestic brands had no industry
chain advantages. Under the pressure of rising panel prices at the upstream
and insufficient supplies, their sales did not grow much. On the whole,
flat panel TV sales continued to rise. But, the pattern of competition
changed greatly. Domestic brands saw a drop in their collective market
shares, while foreign brands increased their market shares and were in a
strong position. 40-inch or larger TV products saw their percentages rise
and were favored in the market.

II. Industry Development Trend
1. There will be 3 major development trends in the consumer electronics
industry.
As the Internet becomes more widespread, integrated products and
services have become a new proposition for consumer values. In the Internet
age, the meaning of consumer electronic products has been greatly expanded
and enriched. Home consumer electronics integration is a general trend. On
the whole, the consumer electronics industry will have the following trends
in the future:
(a) 3C integration is a major trend for electronics.
A logic trend is that consumer electronics products will adapt to 3C
integration. From their own perspective, home appliances, communication and
IT are developing towards 3C integration. Many new electronic products have
emerged, such as TVs with Internet access, camera mobile phones, PDAs that
can make calls, MP3s with a video function. New product renewal is faster,
and a wide variety of products have emerged. Electronic products that
achieve 3C integration are an overall trend.
(b) Consumer electronics have more personalized designs.
Intense market competition promotes manufacturers to continue to
segment the consumer market. New technologies and new products that meet
personalized demand have emerged. Big screen LCD TVs, MP3 products, large
capacity and fast storage technologies, and hi-tech digital imaging
products have more embodied the features of personalized design.
(c) Digital homes will become a future growth point for consumer
electronics in China.
The "digital home" can be seen as a trend of the information industry
towards consumerism. It is also a trend of digital and IT-based consumer
electronics. It stresses the application of IT in home, and IT-based
control. While digitizing home appliances, it also highly integrates other
available digital consumer electronics. Many computers, communication
equipment, audio and visual products, and home appliances can all identify
each other and share resources, thus possessing highly digitalized and
networked features. In the past year or so, digital TV and broadband
communication networks have developed very quickly, and more and more
digital products enter the homes of ordinary families. The era of the
digital home is gradually becoming a reality, offering a huge market for
all kinds of consumer electronics.
2. Forecast of the size of China's consumer electronics market in
second half of 2007.
Table 3 Forecast for Size of China's Consumer Electronics
Market in Second Half of 2007

2007H2: sales volume 2007H2: sales revenues
Product (10,000 sets) (100 million Yuan)

Flat panel TV 417 332
MP3 554 26.8
PMP 68 12.2
Mobile hard disk 86 8.6
Flash disk 634 13.4
Digital camera 393 78
Digital video camera 75 33.3
Source: CCID Consulting, July 2007

 

[yettitheman]

Hmm.. accurate engrish in the title
I would have worded it:
Format refuses that to which it dies holds not true yet seeking?

 

[Seth=L]

Hmm.. accurate engrish in the title
I would have worded it:
Format refuses that to which it dies holds not true yet seeking?

I collect the Chinese antique, is pregnant the happy Chinese.

 

[PENG]

Wal-Mart Canada is clearing out the made in China Venturer SD7000 for $69.99. Are they any good?

 

[mouettus]

Wal-Mart Canada is clearing out the made in China Venturer SD7000 for $69.99. Are they any good?

Venturer?! I thought they made soccer balls! lol

 

[no. 5]

Wal-Mart Canada is clearing out the made in China Venturer SD7000 for $69.99. Are they any good?

For $70... does it matter?

I've heard it's based on the HD-A3. For what it's worth, A2s are on Amazon.com refurbished for ~$65.

 

[mike c]

even if the market in china is small, china still supplies the rest of asia with their products. hmmm, $5 HD DVD's, here I come!

 

[PENG]

For $70... does it matter?

I've heard it's based on the HD-A3. For what it's worth, A2s are on Amazon.com refurbished for ~$65.

I think you are right, for C$69.97 with 2 movies in the box, "The Perfect Storm" and "Fire Wall", it can't go much wrong. The Fire Wall is a combo! I just got it hooked up, updated the firmware from 1.1 to 2.0 and is now listening to a CD. It seems to sound the same as my Denon 3910 that cost me more than 20 times more only a few years ago. I am sure this is not true but I am not going to waste my time doing any A/B listening. I want to try it on CD first because I have another cheap DVD player that sucks big time playing CDs but perfect with movies.

The only problem I have with this thing so far is that the remote works also on my HD-A30 so I cannot have both plugged in at the same time. The two remotes actually look identical except that some of the buttons on the Venturer SHD7000 are red. Even the firmware numbers look the same, 1.1/1.1 before update and 2.0/1.1 after. Now that I have a backup unit I am going to buy a few $9.98 HDDVDs from DeepDiscount.com.

 

[PENG]

even if the market in china is small, china still supplies the rest of asia with their products. hmmm, $5 HD DVD's, here I come!

Don't get too excited yet, we don't know if those Chinese HD DVD player can play Western movies and unless you are in Asia you may not be able to buy one.

 

[mike c]

i'm in asia. and if these chinese players are like the chinese dvd players from before, i'm pretty sure they make it ALL region and ALL format capable.

 

[PENG]

i'm in asia. and if these chinese players are like the chinese dvd players from before, i'm pretty sure they make it ALL region and ALL format capable.

If you are right and if they flood the market with $69.97 players like my new SHD7000, what are the studios going to do, still ignore the small but potentially expandable market? I wonder why the Chinese don't just focus on making cheap BD players instead.

 

[mike c]

i was looking over the movie selection of hongkong, you'd be surprised at what movies are available in BD and HDDVD ... it seems there's less of a war over there.

 

[Pyrrho]

If you are right and if they flood the market with $69.97 players like my new SHD7000, what are the studios going to do, still ignore the small but potentially expandable market? I wonder why the Chinese don't just focus on making cheap BD players instead.

You did not read the article closely enough. Here is the relevant paragraph:

What is China HD DVD? It's basically HD DVD with some Chinese-developed audio/video codecs in place of the Japanese and Western-developed ones approved for the original HD DVD format as well as for Blu-ray. The original goal of its Chinese backers was both to promote Chinese technology and to reduce the royalty stack Chinese manufacturers would have to pay to Japanese and Western patent owners to make HD DVD players for the Chinese market.

If they made Blu-Ray players instead, then they would be paying royalties for the format (both hardware and software). With the Chinese HD DVD, they pay relatively little in royalties to make it. Consequently, they can have true HD much cheaper the way they are doing it. And that means a bigger market in China for sales, as more people will buy HD if it is cheaper. Thus, they may make more money.

 

[dobyblue]

I think you are right, for C$69.97 with 2 movies in the box, "The Perfect Storm" and "Fire Wall", it can't go much wrong.

With the exception of that fact that TPS has a 1080i master and will be redone at some point in the near future by Warner for a BD release.

 

[Davidt1]

Forget BR and HD DVD. The format that won't die is SD DVD. Just picked some nice movies for $5 each.