The Empire goes on strike

ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Those are not destructive. OP has damage typical of a surge hunting for earth destructively via appliances. It found earth destructively via appliances. It existed because a protector that protects from all types of surges (even phase to phase) was not earthed at the breaker box.

A least expensive solution is also the only solution for both types of surges. If a protector is not connected to earth (ie Panamax), then it does not even claim to protect from the OP's surge. Panamax does not claim to protect from that typically destructive surge.

A power switch (like a circuit breaker or fuse) is also ineffective. A surge easily blows through a millimeters gap in a switch.

Only effective solution is to earth that energy before it can enter a building. Superior solutions can be installed in a breaker box, attached to a breaker box, attached to a meter pan, or even rented from the power company.
West, can I contact my utility company and inquire as to renting a device you mentioned or do you think I should persue having an electrician do an install of the device at or in the breaker box? Thanks for the informative post.
Jeff
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
So what happens now John?
Well, still need to talk to Chad about that. Been extremely busy with work lately, so it has been hard to call them with them being Central time.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well, still need to talk to Chad about that. Been extremely busy with work lately, so it has been hard to call them with them being Central time.
John, from the pics looks like a surge, you think utility or the amp just fried from over heating? My legend gets hot to the touch (very hot), I don't push it either. I've emailed Chad on several occasions about my concerns of excessive heat, I know the original amps have been upgraded to a cooler more effecient one, and still no reply from him, I would like my amp replaced while it's still under warranty, I am very concerned with the heat, the power cord which was hanging about five inches from plate amp was rubbery feeling and hot, like I said I'm probably running at about 50% so it should not get that hot. You said you were listening direct source so I guess it wasn't amp failure, power surge? I feel for you my man.
Jeff
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Chad left a message and without seeing the pics yet (just sent them to him), he said it sounds like a capacitor failure. In my previous place the amp never got hot even with me running it at about 70% gain. I have the gain much lower here, but I did have a minor thing that I had already discussed with Epik that the sub would "thump" considerably about 10 minutes or so after it would turn off. Presumably the caps dumping charge, but it was very audible. My guess is this is possibly related to that, and my amp actually did have a bad cap inside.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Chad left a message and without seeing the pics yet (just sent them to him), he said it sounds like a capacitor failure. In my previous place the amp never got hot even with me running it at about 70% gain. I have the gain much lower here, but I did have a minor thing that I had already discussed with Epik that the sub would "thump" considerably about 10 minutes or so after it would turn off. Presumably the caps dumping charge, but it was very audible. My guess is this is possibly related to that, and my amp actually did have a bad cap inside.
That sounds like it is related, I have not experienced the "thump" but I am extremely concerned about the excessive heat, especially you say your amp never ran hot at 70%. So the cap failure is good news, meaning Chad will send replacement amp, hopefully an improved version. I wish he would answer my emails, I don't mean to air my concerns when you're dealing with these problems John,these are some of the reasons I have not purchased a second Epik, I hope you get the resolution you deserve. Please keep me informed, thanks my friend...
Jeff
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
You don't have to replace your panel to install a whole home surge protector.

This one is fine.


We have had some fierce surges here and this unit is fine.

Individual surge protectors are next to useless.
Reading the install instruction, do I understand it correctly that this device can be connected to an existing 20A breaker in the panel? If so, then only the actual placement in the wall is the concern as the two studs holding the subpanel could have wires stapled to both of them.
The price is cheap for what it can save.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
That sounds like it is related, I have not experienced the "thump" but I am extremely concerned about the excessive heat, especially you say your amp never ran hot at 70%. So the cap failure is good news, meaning Chad will send replacement amp, hopefully an improved version. I wish he would answer my emails, I don't mean to air my concerns when you're dealing with these problems John,these are some of the reasons I have not purchased a second Epik, I hope you get the resolution you deserve. Please keep me informed, thanks my friend...
Jeff
New amp is on the way.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Those are not destructive. OP has damage typical of a surge hunting for earth destructively via appliances. It found earth destructively via appliances. It existed because a protector that protects from all types of surges (even phase to phase) was not earthed at the breaker box.

A least expensive solution is also the only solution for both types of surges. If a protector is not connected to earth (ie Panamax), then it does not even claim to protect from the OP's surge. Panamax does not claim to protect from that typically destructive surge.

A power switch (like a circuit breaker or fuse) is also ineffective. A surge easily blows through a millimeters gap in a switch.

Only effective solution is to earth that energy before it can enter a building. Superior solutions can be installed in a breaker box, attached to a breaker box, attached to a meter pan, or even rented from the power company.

TLS guy (Mark)
West, I contacted my electric utility supplier, they have a Meter Socket Adapter (MSA) stating this will provide the first line of defense against damaging power surges from entering the home from power lines, the second line of defense would be plug in devices for cable and telephone line surges that the MSA does not suppress, suggested plug in device should have UL listing of 1449 and a clamping voltage of 330 volts. The MSA unit for meter is $4.65 monthly rental, these two devices used in tandem have a warranty protection of $5000 for any one piece of equipment or $2,000,000 for any one installation location. What do you think.
Thanks Jeff
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
TLS guy (Mark)
West, I contacted my electric utility supplier, they have a Meter Socket Adapter (MSA) stating this will provide the first line of defense against damaging power surges from entering the home from power lines, the second line of defense would be plug in devices for cable and telephone line surges that the MSA does not suppress, suggested plug in device should have UL listing of 1449 and a clamping voltage of 330 volts. The MSA unit for meter is $4.65 monthly rental, these two devices used in tandem have a warranty protection of $5000 for any one piece of equipment or $2,000,000 for any one installation location. What do you think.
Thanks Jeff
You could buy the unit from Smart Home and be done with it.

Surge protection for phone and cable is a good idea, unless it it is fiber optic which mine is. Fiber will not transmit a surge, and tying the service ground to the house ground in that case will be fine, and is what I do. My phone and Internet are fiber.

Satellite TV is another matter, as the roof equipment is phantom powered and a surge protector can not be used, so I have a stout grounding block to the FM antenna and Direct TV and tie it to the house ground. That would remain a vulnerability for a close strike. However if the strike was close enough to fry the ground, I doubt anything would protect you.

It is important to have UPS systems with tight voltage control. We had severe storms here last night and the UPS units where constantly cutting to battery even though the lights did not flicker.

I honestly think my systems here have paid for themselves many times over.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
You could buy the unit from Smart Home and be done with it.

Surge protection for phone and cable is a good idea, unless it it is fiber optic which mine is. Fiber will not transmit a surge, and tying the service ground to the house ground in that case will be fine, and is what I do. My phone and Internet are fiber.

Satellite TV is another matter, as the roof equipment is phantom powered and a surge protector can not be used, so I have a stout grounding block to the FM antenna and Direct TV and tie it to the house ground. That would remain a vulnerability for a close strike. However if the strike was close enough to fry the ground, I doubt anything would protect you.

It is important to have UPS systems with tight voltage control. We had severe storms here last night and the UPS units where constantly cutting to battery even though the lights did not flicker.

I honestly think my systems here have paid for themselves many times over.
Thanks Mark as always, I will ask my brother to install the Smart Home device, he is an electrician, I have Comcast cable, phone and internet, I don't know if broadband means fiber optic cable, everything comes in from one line and I think it is tyied into house ground. Never realized the importance of UPS systems till you mentioned your experience last night, just thought they were used to save data in case of power outage. Do you think I can get the equivalent of the Smart Home device at local electric suppy house? There are severasl in my area. Thanks Mark for the heads up.
Jeff
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks Mark as always, I will ask my brother to install the Smart Home device, he is an electrician, I have Comcast cable, phone and internet, I don't know if broadband means fiber optic cable, everything comes in from one line and I think it is tyied into house ground. Never realized the importance of UPS systems till you mentioned your experience last night, just thought they were used to save data in case of power outage. Do you think I can get the equivalent of the Smart Home device at local electric suppy house? There are severasl in my area. Thanks Mark for the heads up.
Jeff
I expect you could well get a whole house surge protector from a local supply house and your brother will get his discount.

Broadband does not mean a fiber connection. Fiber gives very fast upload and download speeds. I don't think Comcast has invested in fiber connections for their customers. Our connection at Eagan is not fiber, but old fashioned copper.

On Lake Benedict we are served by a rural telephone cooperative.
Paul Bunyan Telephone. As of about 18 months ago, all their consumers have had a fiber connection. They are the first system in the nation to have 100% of their customers on a fiber connection. Their system is known as a PON. (Passive optical network). It is a large rural area bases out of Bemidji MN



We are right down in the lower left hand corner of district 5, SE of Laporte. This service (district 6) area also includes the large Indian reservation around lower Red Lake.

The construction of this PON involved laying thousands of miles of fiber cable at $1.4 per foot!

The entry has the optical converter with its own UPS.

I think you would know if you had something like this where your cable enters!



The fiber cable being laid on my property.



Note that there is a quick connect disconnect device, the handle of which is a bolt. I fabricated this for them while I had it for repair. I had to replace the diesel lift pump and replaced the fuel lines. It was continuously stalling when it arrived on my property, and in dire need of some TLC, which it promptly got.

Outside my shop waiting for parts the morning after arrival.



So that's one way to get your fiber connection!

One interesting aside: - Our rates have been very low, as PBT are very efficient. However we have recently had a raise in rates, as the US government have insisted our rates are too low and we have to subsidize the less efficient networks!
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
One thing to keep in mind when picking surge protection.
The specs are only half the story, and what you are also buying is the insurance policy that goes along with that particular unit. (Or get a rider on your home owners policy that covers what you want.)

Carefully read the policy's fine print that goes along with them. Make certain that the equipment you want covered is actually covered.
IMHO a clamping voltage of 330v is still too high. (even though that's a standard and lowest that's readily available) Though, 330v is picked for good reason; below that there would be too many nuisance trips.
There are just too many variables with regards to the over voltage every component in a device can absorb.
Keep in mind we're only talking TVSS, lightening is a whole other discussion.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
This what I have, two boxes comprise the phone, cable TV and internet.
 
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Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
This what I have, two boxes comprise the phone, cable TV and internet.
You mentioned that your brother is an electrician, so it will be a piece of cake for him. He could even find an all-in-one type to accommodate the cable & phone right at the service entrance.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
You mentioned that your brother is an electrician, so it will be a piece of cake for him. He could even find an all-in-one type to accommodate the cable & phone right at the service entrance.
Rick, do you mean that this can all be done at the utility meter and Comcast boxes entrance, outside? Thanks
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Rick, do you mean that this can all be done at the utility meter and Comcast boxes entrance, outside? Thanks
It would be done inside directly next to the main panel, where all three utilities come in.
 
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