The DVD / Blu-ray RentalGate Scandal

[3db]

But you are a pirate and a "reasonable" price is not your decision. I want a BMW and I think they are over priced... hmmmm... I'll just steal one. Same thing. Studios lose a ton of money due to piracy and they know it... No biggie, we'll just charge more for the ones sold. You are contributing to the problem and you can't justify good ol' theft. Sorry. You're wrong.

One can't compare a car with a Blu Ray. That's like comparing apples and oranges and the principle is NOT the same.

To be honest, its a game that the indusrty is playing, the same game they are playing to screw the artists out of their royality ..see the link of artists sewing the RCIA.

As much as pirating is a problem, so are the fat greedy corporate execs who charge insame prices for something as cheap as manufacturing a disc so they can pay for their slutty mistresses on the side.

 

[jinjuku]

One can't compare a car with a Blu Ray. That's like comparing apples and oranges and the principle is NOT the same.

To be honest, its a game that the indusrty is playing, the same game they are playing to screw the artists out of their royality ..see the link of artists sewing the RCIA.

As much as pirating is a problem, so are the fat greedy corporate execs who charge insame prices for something as cheap as manufacturing a disc so they can pay for their slutty mistresses on the side.

Correct only in the sense that the person that is d/l'ing a torrent of something they don't own isn't under the same Sword of Democles as someone that acquires something like a BMW through also illegal means.

I don't purchase items where there is no perceived value for me. It's that simple. I have a library card folks

 

[adwilk]

One can't compare a car with a Blu Ray. That's like comparing apples and oranges and the principle is NOT the same.

To be honest, its a game that the indusrty is playing, the same game they are playing to screw the artists out of their royality ..see the link of artists sewing the RCIA.

As much as pirating is a problem, so are the fat greedy corporate execs who charge insame prices for something as cheap as manufacturing a disc so they can pay for their slutty mistresses on the side.

It IS the same... Whenever anybody manufactures anything, they get to decide what to charge and how they are going to distribute product. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But for crying out loud, don't just up and steal it. I think a lot of things are overpriced, but thats the nature of capitalism and we've got to live with it. They can make as much money and do with it what they want and we really do have no say. They don't owe anybody anything. Like I said, you don't like it, don't buy it. If you really like it and find the price worth it, like so many do, then pony up. No matter how you slice it, its just not right to take something that doesnt belong to you. I'm freakin sick of this society where so many people feel like they should get something for nothing.

 

[jinjuku]

It IS the same... Whenever anybody manufactures anything, they get to decide what to charge and how they are going to distribute product. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But for crying out loud, don't just up and steal it. I think a lot of things are overpriced, but thats the nature of capitalism and we've got to live with it. They can make as much money and do with it what they want and we really do have no say. They don't owe anybody anything. Like I said, you don't like it, don't buy it. If you really like it and find the price worth it, like so many do, then pony up. No matter how you slice it, its just not right to take something that doesnt belong to you. I'm freakin sick of this society where so many people feel like they should get something for nothing.

We have a product that allows a business owner to design and post their own coupons to their website.

It's an easy to use WYSIWYG editor and has the ability to use barcodes and schedule start and stop dates for displaying the coupons. With this we also include a clip art gallery that we made from scratch that is all copyrighted.

This is a subscription service and OUR terms are clear. But EVERY month some will pay for the service, design all their coupons using our clip art and then screen capture and cancel the service continuing to use our materials. And EVERY month I have to send a cease and desist to them and their ISP requesting the page be taken down.

Here is the kicker, they want what we have to offer because there is nothing else like it. But they don't want to have a fair participation in the exchange.

Again: They want what they want, when they want, how they want.

If you don't want to abide by our terms then simply don't use the product. People don't get 'it'.

 

[Canada North]

I think alot of People are Missing the Point

My main concern about this whole thing is the fact that we are under the thumb of the entertainment industry as a whole and they are not listening to there customers.

I am not an avocate for Illigal Activity but the Entertainment industry has to change with the times.

Examples... I can deal with two companies to get TV one cable and one sat. I want BBC UK... Great I have to get the $49.95 bundle just for one channel that I watch and get 16 dud channels that will never grace my screen. If I was actually interested in watching the womens network I would pay the $1.50 for it, I would even pay $10.00 to get BBC UK but I can't. Where is the fairness in that. Both the sat and Cable are the same. So you have no options but to get riped off... until the internet that is... I now deal with BBC directly *through a London Proxy server... and not a single dollar goes to my home country for sales tax and I get advertising for products that I cant even buy here. But I do pay British VAT tax!!!!

... If another manufacturers product doesn't sell or starts to sell slower.. maybe its not compelling or competitive enough... Maybe it is time to revamp your product to give it more value to the consumer. In every other industry this would be your solution... but not the entertainment industry... Sales are down on Yamaha's flagship reciever... Well lets just pull the high quality processor and reduce the power supply, but keep the price the same... Yup thats really going to increase sales... the entertainment industry does not have this type of check being a large Oligopoly.

... I go to purchase music, I can buy the CD or Download it. If I buy the CD it costs 12.99, If I download it (legally) its going to cost me 14.85... can I download the high quality rips... most times not... Do I get high res cover art or liner notes... Only if you download the music illegally. So my choice spend less and get it shipped, get the liner notes etc or buy it on line and pay more and get nothing but a bunch of crappy MP3's if I'm lucky....

No other industry in the world works like this. In the real world if my product doesn't sell, I have to slash prices to reduce inventory, analyse what went wrong, improve my product and move forward.

 

[3db]

It IS the same... Whenever anybody manufactures anything, they get to decide what to charge and how they are going to distribute product. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But for crying out loud, don't just up and steal it. I think a lot of things are overpriced, but thats the nature of capitalism and we've got to live with it. They can make as much money and do with it what they want and we really do have no say. They don't owe anybody anything. Like I said, you don't like it, don't buy it. If you really like it and find the price worth it, like so many do, then pony up. No matter how you slice it, its just not right to take something that doesnt belong to you. I'm freakin sick of this society where so many people feel like they should get something for nothing.

And I'm freakin sick of supporting the corporate whore So we roll over and play dead and let the corporate whores decide what prices will be based on their freaken greed?? There's a big difference between paying fair price for something and putting one's left nut on the chopping block. The US wouldn't exist today if someone didn't have the cajones to stand up to the greedy British.

I may also add that they screwed the Blues artists over big time and many very well known artists dies pennyless because the "corporation screwed them out of their roylaties. Maybe, if they make ammends to their living relatives, then I may not be so bitter. They are as bad as the people who pirate. I take that back. They are a 1000 times worse than the people who pirate becasue most people who pirate do are not in it to make money from others. The corp lived off the sweat of others and used them to promote their own self gain.

 

[ChunkyDark]

This is an outrage!!!
I just finished watching a clip of the scene and it's just side boob. I suppose there might have been 1 (one) frame of nipple (can we say/write that??) but that's about it.
Red chicklets for all those leading me down the false road of epic boob shots!!!


This ticks me off, but mostly because I know I won't truly boycott the companies doing it because I suck at delaying gratification.
I don't usually watch too many of those anyway. When I do 9/10 of the time I agree that is was a good idea to cut the scene.
Oddly enough the lower the budget the more I enjoy watching the 'how it was made'. Given 100 Million anyone should be able to make anything look good. The folks making movies on a shoe string < million it's more interesting for me to watch to learn tricks for the movies I won't ever really make.

 

[cwall99]

In a sense, those who are advocating piracy are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They may object to using the term "piracy" to describe their actions, but it's still piracy.

The other thing is that if you want to really make a statement that the entertainment industry understands, about the only thing they pay attention to is their sales figures. They'd put static on Blu-Ray disks if they thought people would pay for them.

So, to make that statement in a manner that will raise an eyebrow at a boardroom meeting, you have to stop buying the movies. You have to stop renting the movies, too (so that Netflix and BlockBuster don't buy as many copies).

In short, you have to sacrifice something, and, unless enough people are willing to make that sacrifice, the studios won't pay any attention to your calls for change.

And, really, is this a huge sacrifice to make? Compare the call to boycott Blu-Ray disks to the Civil Rights campaigns. Back in the 60s (sez the geezer), people made real sacrifices - part of the civil disobedience thing was accepting the legal consequences of your actions.

Heaven forbid we forego the most recent Michael Bay flick on Blu-Ray.

A little perspective, please.

 

[3db]

In a sense, those who are advocating piracy are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They may object to using the term "piracy" to describe their actions, but it's still piracy.

The other thing is that if you want to really make a statement that the entertainment industry understands, about the only thing they pay attention to is their sales figures. They'd put static on Blu-Ray disks if they thought people would pay for them.

So, to make that statement in a manner that will raise an eyebrow at a boardroom meeting, you have to stop buying the movies. You have to stop renting the movies, too (so that Netflix and BlockBuster don't buy as many copies).

In short, you have to sacrifice something, and, unless enough people are willing to make that sacrifice, the studios won't pay any attention to your calls for change.

And, really, is this a huge sacrifice to make? Compare the call to boycott Blu-Ray disks to the Civil Rights campaigns. Back in the 60s (sez the geezer), people made real sacrifices - part of the civil disobedience thing was accepting the legal consequences of your actions.

Heaven forbid we forego the most recent Michael Bay flick on Blu-Ray.

A little perspective, please.

I would rather have the legal system in and investigate the corruption that exists in the industry and begin making example of people like they did with Enron management. Its time to clean house

 

[jostenmeat]

So far that I have seen, most media that is pirated stuff looks and/or sounds absolutely horrible.

Since I don't pirate anything, what I instead try to do is to support those who do right by my media.

It's the reason why I chose to buy Braveheart over Gladiator. Do I like both as far as the movie is concerned? Sure. But, if I only get one, I'm supporting those who do right by us consumers in terms of media transfer.

The superior audio of buying a CD over the downloaded version via the internet was always a reason to stick with CDs in years past. I remember my brother, years ago, was trying to get me into DLing music over the net. Granted, many things that I like aren't easily found, but when I did, it didn't sound nearly as good from what I remember. Perhaps if I was into pop music, this wouldn't matter, but AFAIK, the spatial information given on classical, and/or other revealing music, CDs is perhaps the main reason why CD is still the preferred distribution method for 2 ch music.

My whole point is that I want to speak about the quality of our sources. Stealing/morality aside, buying (or renting) the BDs and CDs will get you the best quality.



We are at Audioholics folks, not some Yahoo message board. Please support the highest quality of media recordings. Thank you very much.

 

[tbergman]

There seem to be quite a few comments about the quality of pirated material. If you are truly against pirated material, the quality shouldn't be a factor.

But honestly you can download most any album in FLAC and ISO files of movies, what more do you want for quality?

 

[tbergman]

This move makes near-perfect sense to me. Don't know if it will help or hurt bottom line for movie studios, but I liks the thought process. I look at this as giving the consumer who is willing to buy the movie something extra, not taking away something from renters who are only spending a few dollars, even though the studios are in fact taking away the extras from rental versions. And I say this as a renter. I own very few movies. Maybe this will cause me to buy a few more. Maybe the studios will provide more or better extra features now. That would be nice. I like director's cuts and unrated versions.

And I love how they market the stripped down rental versions as "theatrical versions". Just some previews and the flick. Nice.

Nice, spin this **** in favor of the greed driven studios. Way to roll over like a good little consumer.

 

[jostenmeat]

There seem to be quite a few comments about the quality of pirated material. If you are truly against pirated material, the quality shouldn't be a factor.

Agreed, but I wasn't assuming the second half of your post to be true (which it very well might be).

But honestly you can download most any album in FLAC and ISO files of movies, what more do you want for quality?

Cool. That's for paid DL's, or are you implying also that "you can download most any album in FLAC and ISO files of movies" as pirated? If it's also for pirated, yes my pleading argument to those here would lose all of its significance. OTOH, if one cannot DL most any album or movie as pirated material, then I will still plead to those here to support the best media transfers, and AFAIK, someone had to buy it.

Even then, there are posters whom I respect that say physical media, at least for 2ch, is still the best method for distribution (because they claim the opposite of what you do, specifically that the resolution normally suffers with most DLs, and particularly in the spatial sense). As for playback in the home, these very same people will scoff at the idea of using a cdp, and much prefer to then load them to HD as FLAC, or whatever. The key here, at least for them, is that the obtainment was by physical nature.

But, I should stop here. I really know nothing about this particular subject, and am most likely filling this thread with useless verbiage. Forgive me.

 

[tbergman]

The high quality downloads I mentioned were what I've seen offered from torrent indexes, I've never seen movies or music offered legally in such quality which is another downfall of the system.

It makes it too easy to fall into the "why pay for it when I can get higher quality for free" mind set. Of course this means that someone originally purchased or rented the media but all it needs is one person and a torrent can spread to a large number of people quite easily.

 

[snmhanson]

I am not all that active of a poster here on this forum but I am fairly passionate on my beliefs concerning piracy. There is no way anyone can deny that you are a thief if you make illegal copies of movies. I think alot of people justify it because there is no one person that they are stealing from. It really doesn't matter. Would you steal a car off a car lot? Would you take a candy bar from a store? Would you steal a DVD from Wal-Mart? I assume the (most of) you would answer no to those questions.

I have a few friends that have huge libraries of pirated movies and music. What really bother me is that rather than feeling embarrased or ashamed about being a criminal, they feel proud that they were able to pull one over on "the man". I have to say that it certainly lowers my level of respect for them. Furthermore, it kind of pisses me off when I think about the fact that I am subsidizing their villenous behaivor when I pay for a legal copy of a movie. How would they feel if they provided a service or product for someone and then were simply stiffed on their bill? IT IS NO DIFFERENT! How would they feel if they owned a small movie or music production company and people were making illegal copies of their movies rather than buying legal copies?

To all people who justify piracy because the corporations make plenty of money anyway, can you honestly tell me that if you are successful in your own chosen career, that you are going to tell your employer and/or customers, "it's ok, I make plenty of money, you don't have to pay me that much"? Are you going to lower your prices once you get a large enough bank account balance? Are you going to lower your prices because a segment of your customer base complains and says you are charging too much? Or, if most people are willing to pay what you are charging, are you going to take their money and maybe even ask for more?

Movie prices are set fairly. There's a very proven concept that anyone who has taken a basic economics class should understand - it's called supply and demand. If the movie companies are selling enough movies at the prices that they are offering them for, than it is the fair market price. There is a point of equillibrium where the supply curve and the demand curve meet which generally dictates what the market price is. I can gurantee you that the companies know perfectly well what that point is and understand the effect on their bottom line would be if they lower thier prices. They would in fact lower their prices if they thought that their additional sales would offset the lower per unit price. It is pretty apparant to me that lowering their prices is not going to make them more money.

Doing the math, if they sold a movie for $10 when it normally sells for $30 they would have to sell three times as many copies just to generate the same revenues. Plus, this doesn't take into account the additional production and distribution costs involved for producing and distributing three times as much product. I seriously doubt that their sales would triple by lowering the price to that level. Furthermore, I would be willing to bet that the number of people who pirate movies would not change significantly either until the price for a movie was so low that it wouldn't even cover their variable costs for making and distributing that movie.

Piracy is not a tool to send a message to the media companies to lower their prices because they're too high. It's a message to them to increase their prices because they have to make up for their lost revenues from not receiving payment from the thieves. As previously mentioned, if you want to send a signal to the movie companies, don't buy their movies. Better yet, start a campaign to stop other people from buying their movies.

Finally, I don't personally approve of many strategies used by media companies. I am sure they use many aggressive tactics in many parts of their business to increase efficiencies and reduce costs. Most large corporations have methods that, while maybe not illegal, are likely unethical. However, the bottom line is that the movie companies are not using illegal tactics to make us buy and watch their movies. It is our choise to shell out the cash to do so. I personally am not going to break the law and behave in an unethical manner no matter how greedy or selfish I think they are. If I act in that way then what seperates me from them?

And as a closing thought, when you really consider the cost of a movie at the theatre, paying even $100 for a DVD is a great deal. Think about how many times you can watch that DVD and multiply that by how many people can watch that movie and then multiply that by the price of a ticket at the theatre. For example, if my family of five watches a movie three times and movie tickets cost an average of $8, that comes out to the equivelent of $120 (5x3x8=120). This does not even factor in additional costs of food, gas and possible babysitting, not to mention the value of being able to watch the movie in the comfort of my own home and start and stop it at my convenience. And that $120 could be much greater if I have friends and relatives who watch the movie as well or if it is a classic that will be watched over and over again. So, one could argure that the intrinsic value of a DVD could be several hundreds of dollars depending on how you look at it.

I'm sure this post will be polarizing and won't change anyone's mind but, like I said, I am fairly passionate about this topic.

Matt

 

[Jack Hammer]

A huge part of the problem, as I see it, with this type of piracy is that too much of the general populace truly don't understand that it is a type of theft. And many of those who do on a lower level, don't understand the full ramifications. Many people seem to only get upset when they see piracy as being done on larger scale in a for profit type situation not when it's just an 'individual' making "copies" for personal usage only. With the studios trying to take advantage of consumers every chance they get I really don't see much of a change in attitude any time in the near future.

 

[Adam]

Matt,

Well said. I would just like to say that when considering weighing the cost of a disc versus going to the theater (including the extra costs mentioned), one should also consider the investment cost of the home theater equipment.

 

[allargon]

The piracy argument is weak. I've never seen a pirated movie with extras or BD-Live. So, witholding extras will do nothing to curb piracy.

Now, this forced trailers thing? Ick. The BD of Harry Potter: The Half Blood Prince had multiple forced trailers in SD! with no BD-Live and no IME (PIP profile 1.1). Except for the Dolby TrueHD, it was perfect for people with first generation Blu-Ray players. Honestly, I was more annoyed about the forced trailers than the lack of extras, as it was a rental.

However, this is a strange trend. The PPV/VOD movies lack extras, too. Moreover, they're usually open matte rather than OAR. (I won't even bother mentioning the 448Kbps DD if you're lucky sound.) So, renting Blu-Ray still gets you the higher bitrates and lossless audio.

Would I buy a Blu-ray w/o extras? Yes, if the price is right. I'd definitely rather pay $10 for a movie w/ no extras vs. $20 for a disc with extras. But, that's just me. For rentals? Give it all to me or discount the rentals a lot more (a la Redbox.) Oh wait. Redbox has to BUY their discs at retail. So, I get the extras with them for cheaper than Blockbuster, anyway. Tsk... tsk.

 

[3db]

For the record, I don't condone piracy but I also don't condone the unethical behaviour of the industry. Like I said before, most people who pirate are just ot cheap to buy teh software. However, "the man" or "the industry" is ripe with unethical practises, have used the artists, screwed them out of royalty fees and unfortunately will continue to screw over the artists unless a legal investigation is made on their shady practises and charges laid. That most likely won't happen because they greased the politicians hand with some green stuff. Before one condems piracy, one should take a long hard look at the unethical behaviour of the business. "The man" is a far greater thief than the individual pirates.

 

[Jack Hammer]

For the record, I don't condone piracy but I also don't condone the unethical behaviour of the industry. Like I said before, most people who pirate are just ot cheap to buy teh software. However, "the man" or "the industry" is ripe with unethical practises, have used the artists, screwed them out of royalty fees and unfortunately will continue to screw over the artists unless a legal investigation is made on their shady practises and charges laid. That most likely won't happen because they greased the politicians hand with some green stuff. Before one condems piracy, one should take a long hard look at the unethical behaviour of the business. "The man" is a far greater thief than the individual pirates.

The unethical actions of one party should not equate to justification for unethical actions by another. Both parties should be equally ridiculed and condemned.