The BEST Streamer for Music and Movies is the New X-Box

witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Audioholic
I posted an entire review video on it here: CocktailAudio X45 review

In a nutshell, I love it and can't think of any reason to replace it.
Wookie I gotta give you credit, you made a nice video and thanks for the effort. All of your systems seem thoughtful and well put together. I have the Epson 3800 PJ and love it, your 5050UB must be nice. Then you doubled down with an 85 inch VIZIO in another room. I have never seen a TV that big before. How does it compare to the PJ? I'll check your channel soon. Thanks
 
WookieGR

WookieGR

Full Audioholic
Wookie I gotta give you credit, you made a nice video and thanks for the effort. All of your systems seem thoughtful and well put together. I have the Epson 3800 PJ and love it, your 5050UB must be nice. Then you doubled down with an 85 inch VIZIO in another room. I have never seen a TV that big before. How does it compare to the PJ? I'll check your channel soon. Thanks
The Vizio is mostly just a big PC monitor with some occasional gaming. I had some issues with it early on but a couple firmware updates snapped it into shape. I like it, I don't love it like I love my OLED in another room.
 
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Audioholic
The Vizio is mostly just a big PC monitor with some occasional gaming. I had some issues with it early on but a couple firmware updates snapped it into shape. I like it, I don't love it like I love my OLED in another room.
Your setup got me thinking about a dedicated room just for audio. I'll update my profile soon to share my current setup. How did you get your systems to show up beneath your posts? In settings? Thanks
 
WookieGR

WookieGR

Full Audioholic
Your setup got me thinking about a dedicated room just for audio. I'll update my profile soon to share my current setup. How did you get your systems to show up beneath your posts? In settings? Thanks
Signature in profile settings
 
M

MLadia

Audioholic Intern
This thread stopped cold so let's warm it up. This is gonna' be a long one so go pee now.;) The Xbox Series S might be a hard sell for hardcore videophiles and audiophiles. I swore I'd not get into this current generation of consoles after watching the HDMI 2.1 fiasco. But, enter my LG C1. How could I not try to game on it with a new console? To try and avoid being labeled a complete hypocrite, I opted for the Series S. The Series X is pricey with a ridiculous form factor and not exactly readily available for purchase anyway. I thought I could return the Series S and get an X if I thought I needed native 4K and optical disc support.

I could go on about how great the XBOX Series S performs playing games but this thread concerns streaming movies and music. It is certainly a consideration for those who like to tinker with settings. Frankly, there are too many of them in too many places. I had read that the XBOX supports Atmos delivery via Dolby MAT and thought it would work similarly to the Apple TV 4K with everything BUT Atmos tracks coming over as PCM. This is not the case depending on the selected settings and could be a nightmare for those completely unfamiliar with how the XBOX works. "Give me bitstream or give me death!" I've said as much at one time or another and hate having to dig deep for the preferred settings.

Many in this forum prefer "same out as in" concerning their media as well but might have warmed up to the new up mixers from Dolby, DTS and even Auro 3-D. If one has upgraded to a Dolby Atmos capable setup, they would certainly want Atmos tracks to play accordingly on their new processor or receiver and be able to up mix anything else if they choose to do so. So, for straight up audio codec delivery, just set it to bitstream and be done with it, right? Well, no. Microsoft thought they'd f#%k with everybody familiar with what bitstream is and does and removed it in an update. Look for it in the list of output formats and it will not be there. One needs to explore a bit and find Additional Options and Advanced settings. Here is where the "Passthrough" feature is located and one can check the box to allow passthrough of an app's audio codec to a sound system for decoding regardless of the format . Yikes, ok, so all should work properly now, right?

Ok, so, let's download the Disney+ app and select an IMAX Enhanced Marvel movie. They look great and support Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. Disney+ and Microsoft couldn't f#%k this one up, could they? Yes, they could and yes, they did f#%k it up. You see, "Passthrough" does not work for dolby Atmos. DD+ will be displayed and Atmos metadata gone using "Passthrough" unless one downloads the f#%kin' Dolby Access app!o_O Now, the app is free for download and free for HDMI output but one will have to pay to use Atmos for Headphones.o_O I s#%t you not folks. You must download the Dolby Access app for Atmos. Oh, and you also need to download the DTS app for DTS, but one crock of s#%t at a time! Downloading the app makes "Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) appear in the list of selectable formats.

Now, here is where things get interesting concerning Atmos. If one wants passthrough of various Dolby tracks, they must select "Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) AND check the box for passthrough so that DD+ 5.1 tracks are not up mixed and only real Atmos tracks signal Atmos in a TV or receiver. Leave the passthrough box unchecked with Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI) selected and everything gets up mixed. I couldn't understand why my receiver was displaying Dolby Surround for up mixed tracks. While using eARC, the TV reported an Atmos signal but the receiver reported Dolby Surround. No, it was not just displaying the Dolby Surround mode, it was displaying Dolby Surround as the input signal as well and limiting the selectable sound modes just like real Atmos tracks do.

So, what was going on? Well, the XBOX doesn't convert dolby audio signals to Atmos but up mixes Dolby tracks. Look into the Dolby Access app and it says as much. So, while some devices will recognize the up mix as Atmos, my receiver sees it for what it is. It is an already up mixed Dolby audio track. Microsoft seems to think they can do it better than receivers by the likes of say Anthem, Denon/Marantz, Onkyo/Pioneer or Yamaha. My Onkyo treats the incoming up mix like real Atmos signals and locks out DTS modes. You know how much Dolby likes cross up mixing these days.;) Some receivers may report Atmos. It bugged me that mine did not do so but then I warmed up to it as Dolby Surround tells me that the track in play has been up mixed by the XBOX and is not really an Atmos track at all. Leave a DD+ 5.1 track alone with no up mixing in the XBOX and DTS Neural:X mode can be applied to it in the receiver since the Atmos up mixing will not lock it out.

The inclusion of so many different output settings for audio and video will be welcomed by those trying to incorporate the XBOX into systems containing TVs and receivers with varying abilities. Of course, Microsoft could have made it easier on themselves if they had just included a second HDMI port for audio.:rolleyes: I won't go into DTS:X too much. It is a non issue if using eARC and a TV that does not support DTS at all. Going through the receiver, the DTS:X conversion works but was not as good as Dolby Atmos when playing a game that supported both Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. DTS likes to come in hot but louder doesn't necessarily mean better regarding processing of the audio. Everybody will have their own preferences for streaming movies and music and there are lots of ways to output them with the XBOX Series S. Oh, and while the XBOX Series X includes a disc drive, Dolby Vision is supported for streaming apps and games BUT NOT FOR DISCS!o_O

The XBOX video streaming service apps are comparable to other streamers BUT some do not support 24Hz playback. There is a 24Hz playback box to check in the settings but it matters not when the app only supports 60Hz playback on the device. This is the case with Disney+ and Netflix on the XBOX Series S. If you like 24Hz playback and like seeing 24Hz output being displayed on your receiver or TV, those apps will drive you crazy based on the selected output of the XBOX. Select 120Hz output for gaming and that is what will be displayed when bringing up signal playback info for some video streams. It may show 60Hz for Dolby Vision material. Setting the XBOX to 60Hz effectively sets it up for HDMI 2.0 rather than HDMI 2.1 when using the 120Hz setting. But, that's another can of worms. I didn't bother with music streaming service apps because there are pitifully few available on the XBOX.

Everybody has their favorite streamer based on their preferred eco system. There are a great many streamers out there. I've tried using a few of them. The XBOX Series S hits above its weight in the gaming department and is very impressive there. Gears 5: Hivebusters in Dolby Vision or HDR10 @120Hz with VRR is jaw dropping in detail and smoothness on the Series S considering it only supports 1440p natively and upscales. But, that is for a gaming thread. All things considered concerning movie and music apps, I would not call the XBOX Series S the best streamer. It may fit the bill for those who just want to send rips to another device in their network but those folks probably already use a device for that purpose. It is first and foremost a next gen gaming console and that is where it really shines for the price. There are better dedicated streamers for less money out there and there still isn't any one device that does it all. There can't be one as there are too many different licensing deals among different manufacturers for any one device to do it all. It is what it is. Points go to the XBOX for having a remote controller within the XBOX iOS app. With HDMI-CEC enabled in everything, I can power up the console with my iPhone which in turn powers on my TV and receiver and I can control the XBOX functions with the iPhone. But, subtract some points for not allowing control by the LG Magic Remote using HDMI-CEC.:confused: Now, go pee again.:D
SO how do you suggest I set up my xbox s with my denon for atmos? My TV does not have Atmos. Only my receiver does. Because of this I stream through the xBox. Passthrough would be good right? Let the Receiver do the work? What other output settings should I use. I have an old Samsung KS8000 and the basic Denon receiver with atmos. Thank you for your help.
 
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Audioholic
SO how do you suggest I set up my xbox s with my denon for atmos? My TV does not have Atmos. Only my receiver does. Because of this I stream through the xBox. Passthrough would be good right? Let the Receiver do the work? What other output settings should I use. I have an old Samsung KS8000 and the basic Denon receiver with atmos. Thank you for your help.
I prefer going into audio settings and choosing Atmos. The receiver reads it as Atmos for everything you stream. I watched the first Jurassic park movie in Atmos this way recently although Amazon Video was streaming it in DD. If you use Passthrough you will get the original bitstream. Try both and see what sounds better to you.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Not sure what sources this is true for, or if it is still true of the newer gen Xbox's, but I bought an Xbox One specifically to use it as a streaming device. I sent it back after one day because while it supports Atmos, it's not quite what it seems. On my model, Plex was limited to ACC since MS wouldn't let them use bitstream for HD audio. That means that my blu-ray rips with full Atmos tracks were getting transcoded, then re-encoded back to Atmos. Why? Not an acceptable way to handle audio so it doesn't get to stay. Whether the newer Xbox models have this same limitation, I don't know. Any game I'd play on Xbox is available on PC so I'm not interested.

I tried using Plex with my PS5 and it doesn't bitstream HD audio either, so no go. I don't need it for that since I have multiple Nvidia shield TVs, but I still wanted to see what it could do.

Gaming consoles aren't that great at media playback if you aren't streaming. See below.

1659642270298.png
 
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Audioholic
Not sure what sources this is true for, or if it is still true of the newer gen Xbox's, but I bought an Xbox One specifically to use it as a streaming device. I sent it back after one day because while it supports Atmos, it's not quite what it seems. On my model, Plex was limited to ACC since MS wouldn't let them use bitstream for HD audio. That means that my blu-ray rips with full Atmos tracks were getting transcoded, then re-encoded back to Atmos. Why? Not an acceptable way to handle audio so it doesn't get to stay. Whether the newer Xbox models have this same limitation, I don't know. Any game I'd play on Xbox is available on PC so I'm not interested.

I tried using Plex with my PS5 and it doesn't bitstream HD audio either, so no go. I don't need it for that since I have multiple Nvidia shield TVs, but I still wanted to see what it could do.

Gaming consoles aren't that great at media playback if you aren't streaming. See below.

View attachment 57155
I have both an older version and a new one, I'll see if I can test it out and see.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
SO how do you suggest I set up my xbox s with my denon for atmos? My TV does not have Atmos. Only my receiver does. Because of this I stream through the xBox. Passthrough would be good right? Let the Receiver do the work? What other output settings should I use. I have an old Samsung KS8000 and the basic Denon receiver with atmos. Thank you for your help.
If you want the receiver to do the upmixing, select "Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) AND check the box for Passthrough so that non atmos tracks are not up mixed by the XBOX Series S. Now, this works for streaming apps but I noticed non atmos games will still be upmixed with these settings.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
If you want the receiver to do the upmixing, select "Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) AND check the box for Passthrough so that non atmos tracks are not up mixed by the XBOX Series S. Now, this works for streaming apps but I noticed non atmos games will still be upmixed with these settings.
I let my Windows PC upmix games to Atmos just because if you don't have Atmos enabled, the games that support it won't auto enable Atmos. Dumb, but it's fine. What I don't know, and will have to think of a way to test, is to see if DSU or Atmos for Windows is "better" for upmixing game content.

Have you bothered to compare the same with the Xbox?
 
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Audioholic
I let my Windows PC upmix games to Atmos just because if you don't have Atmos enabled, the games that support it won't auto enable Atmos. Dumb, but it's fine. What I don't know, and will have to think of a way to test, is to see if DSU or Atmos for Windows is "better" for upmixing game content.

Have you bothered to compare the same with the Xbox?
Yes, I have tested this feature. Atmos is object oriented and IDK if the DSU upmixer is channel based but it sounds more compressed in comparison. DSU seems to be content dependent, some stuff soounds good upmixed, some stuff sounds wacky (On Eric Claptons project with BB King (Riding With the King) some upmixed songs had vocals coming out of the rear channels. Atmos upmix from XBox is consistently good, music, movies, or games. You also don't have to deal with the center spread issue when you use the XBox upmixer. Recommended.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Yes, I have tested this feature. Atmos is object oriented and IDK if the DSU upmixer is channel based but it sounds more compressed in comparison. DSU seems to be content dependent, some stuff soounds good upmixed, some stuff sounds wacky (On Eric Claptons project with BB King (Riding With the King) some upmixed songs had vocals coming out of the rear channels. Atmos upmix from XBox is consistently good, music, movies, or games. You also don't have to deal with the center spread issue when you use the XBox upmixer. Recommended.
If Windows and Xbox are using Dolby tech to upmix channel based content to Atmos, then they're probably doing the exact same thing DSU is doing. I'm going to have to find out if there is any documentation on this.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
If Windows and Xbox are using Dolby tech to upmix channel based content to Atmos, then they're probably doing the exact same thing DSU is doing. I'm going to have to find out if there is any documentation on this.
I believe you’re right. AFAIK, there’s no way to convert channel based tracks to real object based ones. Hopefully Treb will give us a two mile long explanation of mdat.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I've been working on my reply for some time. It is three pages and counting.;)
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I let my Windows PC upmix games to Atmos just because if you don't have Atmos enabled, the games that support it won't auto enable Atmos. Dumb, but it's fine. What I don't know, and will have to think of a way to test, is to see if DSU or Atmos for Windows is "better" for upmixing game content.

Have you bothered to compare the same with the Xbox?
Things work similarly on the XBOX Series S. I've been tinkering with it for too long today and figured out a few things. But, let's keep it about Atmos for this post or I'll go off on some f#%kin' tangent. When playing games or watching video streaming apps, you must select Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) from the Speaker Audio box which is found in the General Volume & audio output settings screen. Now, with that set, games that do not support Atmos will be up mixed and it does not matter if one checks the "Passthrough" box found in the Additional options settings as that will only allow passthrough of audio from streaming apps. For Dolby Atmos metadata passthrough from games and video streaming apps, you must download the Dolby Access app and then select Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) that is now selectable in the Speaker audio output box.

Now, this really bugs the s#%t out of me. I thought they were just f#%kin' with me. Dolby does not allow Atmos metadata passthrough on the XBOX unless you download a f#%kin' app and also pay for it if you want it over your headphones. As Nan would say, "What a f#%kin' liberty!" Many on this forum remember the "set it and forget it" days of disc players. Set the video output resolution to your liking and set the audio output to bitstream and let the processor or receiver do the decoding of the signal. The player would pass the Atmos metadata over the bitstream with no issue or additional settings to a capable processor or receiver. There are now soundbars that can handle the decode as well. But, you aren't going to get those "set it and forget it" settings from a new XBOX.

So, who cares? Well, a frustrated gamer who uses their XBOX Series S for video streaming as well as games may care if they do not want to up mix their games BUT want Dolby Atmos playback from video streaming service content that supports it. Let's say you are going to play Gears of War: Ultimate Edition and prefer to not to have it up mixed by the XBOX Series S. You can select, say, UNCOMPRESSED PCM 7.1 for audio output. But, you must remember to switch it back to Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) when you are going to watch a movie with an Atmos track because the Atmos metadata will not be passed unless Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) is selected or one will see a DD+ track displayed as the incoming signal on their processor or receiver instead of Atmos or Atmos/DD+ when watching an Atmos movie or show. The "Passthrough" setting in the Additional options only applies to video streaming apps BUT will not pass Atmos metadata without selecting Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) and then forces upmixing on any non Atmos games. F#%#%KKKK!!!! Microsoft really needs to fix this so that "Passthrough" applies to games as well.

When you really look at it, the XBOX Series S is two different devices in one box. It is a next gen gaming console AND a streamer in one box. And, just like other combo machines of the past, it isn't the best of either because you can't have it ALL in one box. That is especially true when Dolby wants to f#%k you with apps for Atmos. Oh, don't get me started on Dolby Vision! No, don't do it. This was supposed to be about Atmos. I'll rant about Dolby Vision later.;) Some of you maybe thinking about getting an XBOX Series S and adding an external disc drive to it. Hell, remember when they had their own HD DVD add on for the XBOX 360? You cannot add an external disc drive to the Series S. They don't support it. F#%#%KKKK!!!! And, even if you spring for the Series X to use the disc drive, it doesn't support Dolby Vision on 4K blu-ray! F#%#%KKKK!!!!

Ok, deep breathes. All is ok. I asked for it when I bought the damn thing knowing full well that they have continued to screw things up since the XBOX 360. This is why I skipped the last generation of consoles. There are a few issues to discuss concerning the XBOX Series S and its video output. There are a great many poor slobs out there trying to scrape money up for a new receiver that supports HDMI 2.1 features so that they can connect a next gen console to it and not have to connect directly to their new TV. If one has a receiver that supports eARC but not HDMI 2.1 video features, try a direct connection to the TV using eARC if you are using the XBOX Series S and see if you have any audio lag before getting a new receiver. One issue is that NO receiver that I know of at the moment supports 1440p passthrough. This is a big f#%kin' deal because the XBOX Series S does not support 4K natively and upscales. When connected directly to my TV, 1440p is an output resolution option along with 720p, 1080p and 4K UHD. When I check the 4K TV details in the XBOX settings, a line reads that "Your TV setup supports up to native 1440p at 120fps." Another line reads that "Your TV supports Dolby Vision for gaming up to 4K 120Hz..." It then warns about latency when using Dolby Vision at 120Hz. So, if I want to game in 4K Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos @120Hz, I can do so with a direct connection to my TV. Oh, and selecting 1440p, or anything other than 4K UHD for output, cuts Dolby Vision out. Some of you know most games don't support 120fps. So, how do you get 120Hz displayed when most of the games are outputting 60Hz? The XBOX actually frame doubles it if you select 120Hz for the console's output. It shouldn't do that but it does do it because selecting 60Hz actually drops it to the HDMI 2.0 spec.o_O Supposedly, the PS5 does not frame double, but that f#%ker is capped at 32gbps. So, let's say you are playing "Ori and the Will of the Wisps" on the Series S. You can select 4K 60Hz or 1080p 120Hz in the game. The latter looks like s#%t and you want to select 4K @60Hz. Even then, the TV will still report a 4K 120Hz signal, actually more like 119Hz signal, because 120Hz was selected along with 4K UHD for the console's video output. So, if connected directly to my TV, which is the LG C1, I can output HDR10 AND Dolby Vision @120Hz.

Now, if I connect the XBOX Series S to my receiver, things change. Since the receiver does not support 1440p, it is not available to select as an output resolution and the XBOX tells me that "Your TV setup supports up to native 1080p at 120fps. It also tells me that "Your TV supports Dolby Vision for gaming up to 4k 60Hz." Yup, I lost Dolby Vision @120Hz. I can use HDR10 @120Hz but not Dolby Vision @120Hz with the connection to the receiver. I also lose AMD Freesync and have to settle for regular VRR. I don't believe any receiver supports that, either. I won't go into the chroma sub sampling involved when using Dolby Vision on the XBOX right now. My head hurts. But, it has to do with the fact that it and every current TV support 40gbps and not the full 48gbps of the HDMI 2.1 spec. If you want 4K Dolby Vision @120Hz for gaming and are going to go through a receiver, you need to spring for the Series X. Am I gonna do it? I'm still thinking about it. I might return the Series S and use the $100 gift card for XBOX that LG kicked over for purchasing the C1. I just don't know if it is worth it. There are sooo many things to consider about a next gen gaming console when connecting one to a home theater system these days. I've said it before and I'll say it again. "F#%k you Microsoft and Sony for not including a second HDMI port for audio on these f#%kin' things! F#%k you Dolby for requiring a f#%kin' app for Atmos. But, at the end of the day, Gears 5 multiplayer does support 1080p @120Hz and the Series S can upscale it to 4K Dolby Vision. It also supports Dolby Atmos. So, with a direct connection to my C1, I was able to play it in Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos @120Hz.o_O It was awesome! What a f#%kin' blast! But, that doesn't let them off the hook!:mad: Wait, did I answer the up mixer comparison question? F#%k it, I'm tired.;)
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Things work similarly on the XBOX Series S. I've been tinkering with it for too long today and figured out a few things. But, let's keep it about Atmos for this post or I'll go off on some f#%kin' tangent. When playing games or watching video streaming apps, you must select Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) from the Speaker Audio box which is found in the General Volume & audio output settings screen. Now, with that set, games that do not support Atmos will be up mixed and it does not matter if one checks the "Passthrough" box found in the Additional options settings as that will only allow passthrough of audio from streaming apps. For Dolby Atmos metadata passthrough from games and video streaming apps, you must download the Dolby Access app and then select Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) that is now selectable in the Speaker audio output box.

Now, this really bugs the s#%t out of me. I thought they were just f#%kin' with me. Dolby does not allow Atmos metadata passthrough on the XBOX unless you download a f#%kin' app and also pay for it if you want it over your headphones. As Nan would say, "What a f#%kin' liberty!" Many on this forum remember the "set it and forget it" days of disc players. Set the video output resolution to your liking and set the audio output to bitstream and let the processor or receiver do the decoding of the signal. The player would pass the Atmos metadata over the bitstream with no issue or additional settings to a capable processor or receiver. There are now soundbars that can handle the decode as well. But, you aren't going to get those "set it and forget it" settings from a new XBOX.

So, who cares? Well, a frustrated gamer who uses their XBOX Series S for video streaming as well as games may care if they do not want to up mix their games BUT want Dolby Atmos playback from video streaming service content that supports it. Let's say you are going to play Gears of War: Ultimate Edition and prefer to not to have it up mixed by the XBOX Series S. You can select, say, UNCOMPRESSED PCM 7.1 for audio output. But, you must remember to switch it back to Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) when you are going to watch a movie with an Atmos track because the Atmos metadata will not be passed unless Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) is selected or one will see a DD+ track displayed as the incoming signal on their processor or receiver instead of Atmos or Atmos/DD+ when watching an Atmos movie or show. The "Passthrough" setting in the Additional options only applies to video streaming apps BUT will not pass Atmos metadata without selecting Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) and then forces upmixing on any non Atmos games. F#%#%KKKK!!!! Microsoft really needs to fix this so that "Passthrough" applies to games as well.

When you really look at it, the XBOX Series S is two different devices in one box. It is a next gen gaming console AND a streamer in one box. And, just like other combo machines of the past, it isn't the best of either because you can't have it ALL in one box. That is especially true when Dolby wants to f#%k you with apps for Atmos. Oh, don't get me started on Dolby Vision! No, don't do it. This was supposed to be about Atmos. I'll rant about Dolby Vision later.;) Some of you maybe thinking about getting an XBOX Series S and adding an external disc drive to it. Hell, remember when they had their own HD DVD add on for the XBOX 360? You cannot add an external disc drive to the Series S. They don't support it. F#%#%KKKK!!!! And, even if you spring for the Series X to use the disc drive, it doesn't support Dolby Vision on 4K blu-ray! F#%#%KKKK!!!!

Ok, deep breathes. All is ok. I asked for it when I bought the damn thing knowing full well that they have continued to screw things up since the XBOX 360. This is why I skipped the last generation of consoles. There are a few issues to discuss concerning the XBOX Series S and its video output. There are a great many poor slobs out there trying to scrape money up for a new receiver that supports HDMI 2.1 features so that they can connect a next gen console to it and not have to connect directly to their new TV. If one has a receiver that supports eARC but not HDMI 2.1 video features, try a direct connection to the TV using eARC if you are using the XBOX Series S and see if you have any audio lag before getting a new receiver. One issue is that NO receiver that I know of at the moment supports 1440p passthrough. This is a big f#%kin' deal because the XBOX Series S does not support 4K natively and upscales. When connected directly to my TV, 1440p is an output resolution option along with 720p, 1080p and 4K UHD. When I check the 4K TV details in the XBOX settings, a line reads that "Your TV setup supports up to native 1440p at 120fps." Another line reads that "Your TV supports Dolby Vision for gaming up to 4K 120Hz..." It then warns about latency when using Dolby Vision at 120Hz. So, if I want to game in 4K Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos @120Hz, I can do so with a direct connection to my TV. Oh, and selecting 1440p, or anything other than 4K UHD for output, cuts Dolby Vision out. Some of you know most games don't support 120fps. So, how do you get 120Hz displayed when most of the games are outputting 60Hz? The XBOX actually frame doubles it if you select 120Hz for the console's output. It shouldn't do that but it does do it because selecting 60Hz actually drops it to the HDMI 2.0 spec.o_O Supposedly, the PS5 does not frame double, but that f#%ker is capped at 32gbps. So, let's say you are playing "Ori and the Will of the Wisps" on the Series S. You can select 4K 60Hz or 1080p 120Hz in the game. The latter looks like s#%t and you want to select 4K @60Hz. Even then, the TV will still report a 4K 120Hz signal, actually more like 119Hz signal, because 120Hz was selected along with 4K UHD for the console's video output. So, if connected directly to my TV, which is the LG C1, I can output HDR10 AND Dolby Vision @120Hz.

Now, if I connect the XBOX Series S to my receiver, things change. Since the receiver does not support 1440p, it is not available to select as an output resolution and the XBOX tells me that "Your TV setup supports up to native 1080p at 120fps. It also tells me that "Your TV supports Dolby Vision for gaming up to 4k 60Hz." Yup, I lost Dolby Vision @120Hz. I can use HDR10 @120Hz but not Dolby Vision @120Hz with the connection to the receiver. I also lose AMD Freesync and have to settle for regular VRR. I don't believe any receiver supports that, either. I won't go into the chroma sub sampling involved when using Dolby Vision on the XBOX right now. My head hurts. But, it has to do with the fact that it and every current TV support 40gbps and not the full 48gbps of the HDMI 2.1 spec. If you want 4K Dolby Vision @120Hz for gaming and are going to go through a receiver, you need to spring for the Series X. Am I gonna do it? I'm still thinking about it. I might return the Series S and use the $100 gift card for XBOX that LG kicked over for purchasing the C1. I just don't know if it is worth it. There are sooo many things to consider about a next gen gaming console when connecting one to a home theater system these days. I've said it before and I'll say it again. "F#%k you Microsoft and Sony for not including a second HDMI port for audio on these f#%kin' things! F#%k you Dolby for requiring a f#%kin' app for Atmos. But, at the end of the day, Gears 5 multiplayer does support 1080p @120Hz and the Series S can upscale it to 4K Dolby Vision. It also supports Dolby Atmos. So, with a direct connection to my C1, I was able to play it in Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos @120Hz.o_O It was awesome! What a f#%kin' blast! But, that doesn't let them off the hook!:mad: Wait, did I answer the up mixer comparison question? F#%k it, I'm tired.;)
So what you're saying is that MS has still not figured out how to make a good console? I figured as much. :)
 
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Audioholic
Things work similarly on the XBOX Series S. I've been tinkering with it for too long today and figured out a few things. But, let's keep it about Atmos for this post or I'll go off on some f#%kin' tangent. When playing games or watching video streaming apps, you must select Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) from the Speaker Audio box which is found in the General Volume & audio output settings screen. Now, with that set, games that do not support Atmos will be up mixed and it does not matter if one checks the "Passthrough" box found in the Additional options settings as that will only allow passthrough of audio from streaming apps. For Dolby Atmos metadata passthrough from games and video streaming apps, you must download the Dolby Access app and then select Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) that is now selectable in the Speaker audio output box.

Now, this really bugs the s#%t out of me. I thought they were just f#%kin' with me. Dolby does not allow Atmos metadata passthrough on the XBOX unless you download a f#%kin' app and also pay for it if you want it over your headphones. As Nan would say, "What a f#%kin' liberty!" Many on this forum remember the "set it and forget it" days of disc players. Set the video output resolution to your liking and set the audio output to bitstream and let the processor or receiver do the decoding of the signal. The player would pass the Atmos metadata over the bitstream with no issue or additional settings to a capable processor or receiver. There are now soundbars that can handle the decode as well. But, you aren't going to get those "set it and forget it" settings from a new XBOX.

So, who cares? Well, a frustrated gamer who uses their XBOX Series S for video streaming as well as games may care if they do not want to up mix their games BUT want Dolby Atmos playback from video streaming service content that supports it. Let's say you are going to play Gears of War: Ultimate Edition and prefer to not to have it up mixed by the XBOX Series S. You can select, say, UNCOMPRESSED PCM 7.1 for audio output. But, you must remember to switch it back to Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) when you are going to watch a movie with an Atmos track because the Atmos metadata will not be passed unless Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) is selected or one will see a DD+ track displayed as the incoming signal on their processor or receiver instead of Atmos or Atmos/DD+ when watching an Atmos movie or show. The "Passthrough" setting in the Additional options only applies to video streaming apps BUT will not pass Atmos metadata without selecting Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) and then forces upmixing on any non Atmos games. F#%#%KKKK!!!! Microsoft really needs to fix this so that "Passthrough" applies to games as well.

When you really look at it, the XBOX Series S is two different devices in one box. It is a next gen gaming console AND a streamer in one box. And, just like other combo machines of the past, it isn't the best of either because you can't have it ALL in one box. That is especially true when Dolby wants to f#%k you with apps for Atmos. Oh, don't get me started on Dolby Vision! No, don't do it. This was supposed to be about Atmos. I'll rant about Dolby Vision later.;) Some of you maybe thinking about getting an XBOX Series S and adding an external disc drive to it. Hell, remember when they had their own HD DVD add on for the XBOX 360? You cannot add an external disc drive to the Series S. They don't support it. F#%#%KKKK!!!! And, even if you spring for the Series X to use the disc drive, it doesn't support Dolby Vision on 4K blu-ray! F#%#%KKKK!!!!

Ok, deep breathes. All is ok. I asked for it when I bought the damn thing knowing full well that they have continued to screw things up since the XBOX 360. This is why I skipped the last generation of consoles. There are a few issues to discuss concerning the XBOX Series S and its video output. There are a great many poor slobs out there trying to scrape money up for a new receiver that supports HDMI 2.1 features so that they can connect a next gen console to it and not have to connect directly to their new TV. If one has a receiver that supports eARC but not HDMI 2.1 video features, try a direct connection to the TV using eARC if you are using the XBOX Series S and see if you have any audio lag before getting a new receiver. One issue is that NO receiver that I know of at the moment supports 1440p passthrough. This is a big f#%kin' deal because the XBOX Series S does not support 4K natively and upscales. When connected directly to my TV, 1440p is an output resolution option along with 720p, 1080p and 4K UHD. When I check the 4K TV details in the XBOX settings, a line reads that "Your TV setup supports up to native 1440p at 120fps." Another line reads that "Your TV supports Dolby Vision for gaming up to 4K 120Hz..." It then warns about latency when using Dolby Vision at 120Hz. So, if I want to game in 4K Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos @120Hz, I can do so with a direct connection to my TV. Oh, and selecting 1440p, or anything other than 4K UHD for output, cuts Dolby Vision out. Some of you know most games don't support 120fps. So, how do you get 120Hz displayed when most of the games are outputting 60Hz? The XBOX actually frame doubles it if you select 120Hz for the console's output. It shouldn't do that but it does do it because selecting 60Hz actually drops it to the HDMI 2.0 spec.o_O Supposedly, the PS5 does not frame double, but that f#%ker is capped at 32gbps. So, let's say you are playing "Ori and the Will of the Wisps" on the Series S. You can select 4K 60Hz or 1080p 120Hz in the game. The latter looks like s#%t and you want to select 4K @60Hz. Even then, the TV will still report a 4K 120Hz signal, actually more like 119Hz signal, because 120Hz was selected along with 4K UHD for the console's video output. So, if connected directly to my TV, which is the LG C1, I can output HDR10 AND Dolby Vision @120Hz.

Now, if I connect the XBOX Series S to my receiver, things change. Since the receiver does not support 1440p, it is not available to select as an output resolution and the XBOX tells me that "Your TV setup supports up to native 1080p at 120fps. It also tells me that "Your TV supports Dolby Vision for gaming up to 4k 60Hz." Yup, I lost Dolby Vision @120Hz. I can use HDR10 @120Hz but not Dolby Vision @120Hz with the connection to the receiver. I also lose AMD Freesync and have to settle for regular VRR. I don't believe any receiver supports that, either. I won't go into the chroma sub sampling involved when using Dolby Vision on the XBOX right now. My head hurts. But, it has to do with the fact that it and every current TV support 40gbps and not the full 48gbps of the HDMI 2.1 spec. If you want 4K Dolby Vision @120Hz for gaming and are going to go through a receiver, you need to spring for the Series X. Am I gonna do it? I'm still thinking about it. I might return the Series S and use the $100 gift card for XBOX that LG kicked over for purchasing the C1. I just don't know if it is worth it. There are sooo many things to consider about a next gen gaming console when connecting one to a home theater system these days. I've said it before and I'll say it again. "F#%k you Microsoft and Sony for not including a second HDMI port for audio on these f#%kin' things! F#%k you Dolby for requiring a f#%kin' app for Atmos. But, at the end of the day, Gears 5 multiplayer does support 1080p @120Hz and the Series S can upscale it to 4K Dolby Vision. It also supports Dolby Atmos. So, with a direct connection to my C1, I was able to play it in Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos @120Hz.o_O It was awesome! What a f#%kin' blast! But, that doesn't let them off the hook!:mad: Wait, did I answer the up mixer comparison question? F#%k it, I'm tired.;)
I am laughing when I read your post because you really hit some great points. As for having to go into settings and selecting Atmos, DTS, DTS-X (with PAID upgrade), 2 CH, 5CH, or 7CH I find it a very useful feature. House music sounds awesome in Atmos, live recordings in DTS and then through my DTS-Neo-X (not to be confused with DTS-X) upmixer in music settings. I like to watch old movies that were mixed in mono or stereo with that setting only set my processor to movies. When I compare the X-Box upmix to the Marants DSU upmixer it sounds closer to a something mixed in native atmos. Now if I were to list a feature that bugs me it would be WHY can't it display the tracks mixed in Atmos on Tidal like my Amazon firestick does? Yes, it will play everything in Atmos via the upmixer but I don't have the ability to listen to the native atmos mixes using passthrough on tidal. I get Tidal through the Plex app. Now a feature I like is the DLNA stream sent from my DAP to the X-Box music app. That app has an EQ in the lower right hand corner. When you open it you have default settings for music, speech, etc. The default music setting sounds better in my setup. I also like the small footprint and the price of $299.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I think I was a bit harsh on the XBOX Series S and its music streaming services. There are more there than I gave it credit. I was surprised that it did not have its own Tidal app as it is available on many platforms. I would like to have seen Qobuz and Apple Music as well. While the Tidal app is available on many devices, Tidal's Dolby Atmos support is limited to a few devices. If I want to play Dolby Atmos tracks from Tidal, I cannot use the LG C1's Tidal app or Onkyo's Tidal app. I have to use the Apple TV 4K. I was also able to use the Nvidia Shield Pro when I had it as well. Some Amazon Fire devices also support Tidal's Dolby Atmos tracks. Any device that does not support Tidal's Dolby Atmos tracks will not even display them as such and will play a two channel version.

I'm not sure about the DSU up mixer from just a few years ago but I'd be willing to bet it has received a few tweaks in new devices compared to some from just a few years ago. Cross up mixing restrictions have certainly changed in just a few years. I didn't find the DSU up mixer was any better in the XBOX over my Onkyo receiver. But, results will vary widely based on age and brand of processors and receivers and the speaker configurations and their actual placement. I'm still curious about the Dolby Surround label of up mixed signals from the XBOX on my receiver display but it does help to identify real Atmos tracks from those up mixed by the XBOX if I leave it on for games. DTS has changed a bit over the years as well with Neo:X replacing Neo:6. Neural:X has replaced Neo:X and is now in play and Virtual:X can be applied to it in certain processors and receivers for virtualization of height speakers as is done with Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization when no real height speakers are present.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
Things work similarly on the XBOX Series S. I've been tinkering with it for too long today and figured out a few things. But, let's keep it about Atmos for this post or I'll go off on some f#%kin' tangent. When playing games or watching video streaming apps, you must select Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) from the Speaker Audio box which is found in the General Volume & audio output settings screen. Now, with that set, games that do not support Atmos will be up mixed and it does not matter if one checks the "Passthrough" box found in the Additional options settings as that will only allow passthrough of audio from streaming apps. For Dolby Atmos metadata passthrough from games and video streaming apps, you must download the Dolby Access app and then select Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) that is now selectable in the Speaker audio output box.

Now, this really bugs the s#%t out of me. I thought they were just f#%kin' with me. Dolby does not allow Atmos metadata passthrough on the XBOX unless you download a f#%kin' app and also pay for it if you want it over your headphones. As Nan would say, "What a f#%kin' liberty!" Many on this forum remember the "set it and forget it" days of disc players. Set the video output resolution to your liking and set the audio output to bitstream and let the processor or receiver do the decoding of the signal. The player would pass the Atmos metadata over the bitstream with no issue or additional settings to a capable processor or receiver. There are now soundbars that can handle the decode as well. But, you aren't going to get those "set it and forget it" settings from a new XBOX.

So, who cares? Well, a frustrated gamer who uses their XBOX Series S for video streaming as well as games may care if they do not want to up mix their games BUT want Dolby Atmos playback from video streaming service content that supports it. Let's say you are going to play Gears of War: Ultimate Edition and prefer to not to have it up mixed by the XBOX Series S. You can select, say, UNCOMPRESSED PCM 7.1 for audio output. But, you must remember to switch it back to Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) when you are going to watch a movie with an Atmos track because the Atmos metadata will not be passed unless Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) is selected or one will see a DD+ track displayed as the incoming signal on their processor or receiver instead of Atmos or Atmos/DD+ when watching an Atmos movie or show. The "Passthrough" setting in the Additional options only applies to video streaming apps BUT will not pass Atmos metadata without selecting Dolby Atmos for home theater(HDMI only) and then forces upmixing on any non Atmos games. F#%#%KKKK!!!! Microsoft really needs to fix this so that "Passthrough" applies to games as well.

When you really look at it, the XBOX Series S is two different devices in one box. It is a next gen gaming console AND a streamer in one box. And, just like other combo machines of the past, it isn't the best of either because you can't have it ALL in one box. That is especially true when Dolby wants to f#%k you with apps for Atmos. Oh, don't get me started on Dolby Vision! No, don't do it. This was supposed to be about Atmos. I'll rant about Dolby Vision later.;) Some of you maybe thinking about getting an XBOX Series S and adding an external disc drive to it. Hell, remember when they had their own HD DVD add on for the XBOX 360? You cannot add an external disc drive to the Series S. They don't support it. F#%#%KKKK!!!! And, even if you spring for the Series X to use the disc drive, it doesn't support Dolby Vision on 4K blu-ray! F#%#%KKKK!!!!

Ok, deep breathes. All is ok. I asked for it when I bought the damn thing knowing full well that they have continued to screw things up since the XBOX 360. This is why I skipped the last generation of consoles. There are a few issues to discuss concerning the XBOX Series S and its video output. There are a great many poor slobs out there trying to scrape money up for a new receiver that supports HDMI 2.1 features so that they can connect a next gen console to it and not have to connect directly to their new TV. If one has a receiver that supports eARC but not HDMI 2.1 video features, try a direct connection to the TV using eARC if you are using the XBOX Series S and see if you have any audio lag before getting a new receiver. One issue is that NO receiver that I know of at the moment supports 1440p passthrough. This is a big f#%kin' deal because the XBOX Series S does not support 4K natively and upscales. When connected directly to my TV, 1440p is an output resolution option along with 720p, 1080p and 4K UHD. When I check the 4K TV details in the XBOX settings, a line reads that "Your TV setup supports up to native 1440p at 120fps." Another line reads that "Your TV supports Dolby Vision for gaming up to 4K 120Hz..." It then warns about latency when using Dolby Vision at 120Hz. So, if I want to game in 4K Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos @120Hz, I can do so with a direct connection to my TV. Oh, and selecting 1440p, or anything other than 4K UHD for output, cuts Dolby Vision out. Some of you know most games don't support 120fps. So, how do you get 120Hz displayed when most of the games are outputting 60Hz? The XBOX actually frame doubles it if you select 120Hz for the console's output. It shouldn't do that but it does do it because selecting 60Hz actually drops it to the HDMI 2.0 spec.o_O Supposedly, the PS5 does not frame double, but that f#%ker is capped at 32gbps. So, let's say you are playing "Ori and the Will of the Wisps" on the Series S. You can select 4K 60Hz or 1080p 120Hz in the game. The latter looks like s#%t and you want to select 4K @60Hz. Even then, the TV will still report a 4K 120Hz signal, actually more like 119Hz signal, because 120Hz was selected along with 4K UHD for the console's video output. So, if connected directly to my TV, which is the LG C1, I can output HDR10 AND Dolby Vision @120Hz.

Now, if I connect the XBOX Series S to my receiver, things change. Since the receiver does not support 1440p, it is not available to select as an output resolution and the XBOX tells me that "Your TV setup supports up to native 1080p at 120fps. It also tells me that "Your TV supports Dolby Vision for gaming up to 4k 60Hz." Yup, I lost Dolby Vision @120Hz. I can use HDR10 @120Hz but not Dolby Vision @120Hz with the connection to the receiver. I also lose AMD Freesync and have to settle for regular VRR. I don't believe any receiver supports that, either. I won't go into the chroma sub sampling involved when using Dolby Vision on the XBOX right now. My head hurts. But, it has to do with the fact that it and every current TV support 40gbps and not the full 48gbps of the HDMI 2.1 spec. If you want 4K Dolby Vision @120Hz for gaming and are going to go through a receiver, you need to spring for the Series X. Am I gonna do it? I'm still thinking about it. I might return the Series S and use the $100 gift card for XBOX that LG kicked over for purchasing the C1. I just don't know if it is worth it. There are sooo many things to consider about a next gen gaming console when connecting one to a home theater system these days. I've said it before and I'll say it again. "F#%k you Microsoft and Sony for not including a second HDMI port for audio on these f#%kin' things! F#%k you Dolby for requiring a f#%kin' app for Atmos. But, at the end of the day, Gears 5 multiplayer does support 1080p @120Hz and the Series S can upscale it to 4K Dolby Vision. It also supports Dolby Atmos. So, with a direct connection to my C1, I was able to play it in Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos @120Hz.o_O It was awesome! What a f#%kin' blast! But, that doesn't let them off the hook!:mad: Wait, did I answer the up mixer comparison question? F#%k it, I'm tired.;)
I hereby nominate this post for the Audioholics "greatest rant ever" award (it's an epic post in a good way; I'm not trying to mess with you).
 
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