The Best of the Big Three For Cinema

[lovinthehd]

What JBLs have you heard? Just their low end consumer stuff or ? Back in the day it was JBL that got me excited about speakers to begin with (and many friends had them as well as I saw/heard them in professional use). Have 4311Bs, Studio 590/580/530/520 and LSR305s. All very nice speakers.

 

[ryanosaur]

I need help overcoming my disdain for jbl speakers. Every one I have ever heard sounds hollow and tinny. What sucks for me is I live in Southeastern Idaho and we have zero outlet to go and sample listen to systems and speakers. Perhaps you could compare and contrast between SVS and like a paradigm.

Can't really help you with Paradigm.
We have a friend here, who is taking a break from the forum, that went from SVS Prime to Klipsch RP8000F to JBL Studio 590. I think I referenced his experience earlier, but he found the JBLs to be better than the Klipsch. Mind, that particular model, the 800F is probably the best testing of their speakers.
Anyway, If SVS, I would argue for the Prime Pinnacle as the benchmark. It reviewed very well here at AH with very nice Measurements. Those matched with Ultra Center would make for a nice Front 3.
Beyond that, some of the Paradigms are well respected speakers, but the recommended ones get pricey. Their more affordable models seem somewhat inconsistent in terms of overall performance and quality. In fact I think a member here shared a story and photos of a Paradigm purchase that literally fell apart in the boxes!

Anyway, the best Klipsch has to offer is still woefully inadequate in my book. Yes, I am harsh. They have the ability to build a better speaker and don't. They look nice, sure, but if their best falls apart, sonically, in the Midrange where they cross from woofer to tweeter, why would anybody recommend that. This does not seem to be the case with the JBL Studio 5 line.
Those JBLs also use Horn-Loaded Compression Drivers, but in a 2-1/2-way design: everything I've seen and heard from other members is pretty standard: praise. *shrugs

Again, if you want to try them, SVS will ship and pay for returns. All you are out if you don't like them is time to audition them over 45 days. All of their speakers are made to mix and match in terms of SQ and voicing, so the Front 3 I suggested up above could be augmented with any of their other Ultra or Prime line of speakers. Throw in a Sub or two and in one wild shopping spree you can have a very respectable HT set up.

Your next best bet would be ordering through Crutchfield, but you will have to pay restocking fees if you return something. If you want to try things out though, order one each of your two favorite towers and try them against each other. You'd have to call them and ask how that would work in terms of restocking.

What's your actual budget? What are you wanting to build out, or, what is your goal with this purchase?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Can't really help you with Paradigm.
We have a friend here, who is taking a break from the forum, that went from SVS Prime to Klipsch RP8000F to JBL Studio 590. I think I referenced his experience earlier, but he found the JBLs to be better than the Klipsch. Mind, that particular model, the 800F is probably the best testing of their speakers.
Anyway, If SVS, I would argue for the Prime Pinnacle as the benchmark. It reviewed very well here at AH with very nice Measurements. Those matched with Ultra Center would make for a nice Front 3.
Beyond that, some of the Paradigms are well respected speakers, but the recommended ones get pricey. Their more affordable models seem somewhat inconsistent in terms of overall performance and quality. In fact I think a member here shared a story and photos of a Paradigm purchase that literally fell apart in the boxes!

Anyway, the best Klipsch has to offer is still woefully inadequate in my book. Yes, I am harsh. They have the ability to build a better speaker and don't. They look nice, sure, but if their best falls apart, sonically, in the Midrange where they cross from woofer to tweeter, why would anybody recommend that. This does not seem to be the case with the JBL Studio 5 line.
Those JBLs also use Horn-Loaded Compression Drivers, but in a 2-1/2-way design: everything I've seen and heard from other members is pretty standard: praise. *shrugs

Again, if you want to try them, SVS will ship and pay for returns. All you are out if you don't like them is time to audition them over 45 days. All of their speakers are made to mix and match in terms of SQ and voicing, so the Front 3 I suggested up above could be augmented with any of their other Ultra or Prime line of speakers. Throw in a Sub or two and in one wild shopping spree you can have a very respectable HT set up.

Your next best bet would be ordering through Crutchfield, but you will have to pay restocking fees if you return something. If you want to try things out though, order one each of your two favorite towers and try them against each other. You'd have to call them and ask how that would work in terms of restocking.

What's your actual budget? What are you wanting to build out, or, what is your goal with this purchase?

Ryno-dino old pal. Have to agree. I believe I know the member you’re referring to. Iirc his experiment found the JBL’s better overall but loved the Klipsch for HT due to the “livelier” sound.
I have used JBL speakers for a long time, and save for lowers end models, they generally sound great. The HDI is high on my shopping list, but Revel and some others are too.
I think @Coachorr54 has probably experienced the more entry level speakers as you assessed. Maybe not too...

 

[pcosmic]

DO you feel there is any truth to the statement "Yamaha is a more dependable receiver". Also, I like the sound of Yamaha, but as you mention I also feel the Denon might have the edge technologically. This may sound kind of silly, but I am not a huge fan of the Marantz display. Thank you for the feedback.

There are many threads with various myths on this topic. Denon/Marantz has no technological edge over a Yamaha. Flagship Yamaha beats a flagship Marantz. Low end Yamaha may get beat by a low end Marantz

 

[lovinthehd]

There are many threads with various myths on this topic. Denon/Marantz has no technological edge over a Yamaha. Flagship Yamaha beats a flagship Marantz. Low end Yamaha may get beat by a low end Marantz

LOL the "sound of" Yamaha. Technological advantages in what way?

 

[ryanosaur]

Ryno-dino old pal. Have to agree. I believe I know the member you’re referring to. Iirc his experiment found the JBL’s better overall but loved the Klipsch for HT due to the “livelier” sound.
I have used JBL speakers for a long time, and save for lowers end models, they generally sound great. The HDI is high on my shopping list, but Revel and some others are too.
I think @Coachorr54 has probably experienced the more entry level speakers as you assessed. Maybe not too...

Yup: hope the ol' Zilla be doing well.
And, yes, he really liked the forwardness/excitement of the Big Ks... but respected the evenness of SQ from the Studio 590s... perhaps a little more?

 

[CajunLB]

LOL the "sound of" Yamaha. Technological advantages in what way?

It’s that 5th audiophile quality leg, that brings out the Chocolatey mids?

 

[lovinthehd]

It’s that 5th audiophile quality leg, that brings out the Chocolatey mids?

I totally forgot about that, must be the difference.

 

[Coachorr54]

I am going to see if there is a jbl dealer close by so I can go and sample. I did watch a youthman video review about paradigm and he said he could here the vener finish sperating from the speaker as he was taking them out of the box.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I am going to see if there is a jbl dealer close by so I can go and sample. I did watch a youthman video review about paradigm and he said he could here the vener finish sperating from the speaker as he was taking them out of the box.

I like youthman, but I find he could be more technical, and he plays to the fanboi a little. Still, it’s nice to have an enthusiast who posts videos and does know something as well. As far as paradigm, I’ve always thought their quality was good if not slightly overpriced for midrange offerings. Peeling veneer sounds quite unusual IMO, but these days...who knows.
I think you should just buy a pair of HDI’s and do a review and post it here. Maybe gene would bankroll you. Then you can make me a deal! Lmao!!!!! JK...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yup: hope the ol' Zilla be doing well.
And, yes, he really liked the forwardness/excitement of the Big Ks... but respected the evenness of SQ from the Studio 590s... perhaps a little more?

Kurt, @KEW is another one who compared the 5 series and the big K RP’s. I think he felt the same.
FWIW, I believe I saw the “zilla” post on the “other” forum a while back. Hope he’s good. You too, I’ll pm you. Was wondering about your solo thing.

 

[ryanosaur]

I like youthman, but I find he could be more technical, and he plays to the fanboi a little.

He's still just a hobbiest, bordering on fanboy himself. At least he means well, it seems. But like a few others, they pop up here and there, poke their heads in for a conversation or three, then dip. He and Toid have done that here. Youth also popped into the HTP-1 thread at that other site then ghosted hard while his HTP-1 vids were next to worthless.

*sighs

Frankly YouTube is turning into a blight, which is a shame. So much potential wasted on copious quantities of vapid and vacuous content.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

He's still just a hobbiest, bordering on fanboy himself. At least he means well, it seems. But like a few others, they pop up here and there, poke their heads in for a conversation or three, then dip. He and Toid have done that here. Youth also popped into the HTP-1 thread at that other site then ghosted hard while his HTP-1 vids were next to worthless.

*sighs

Frankly YouTube is turning into a blight, which is a shame. So much potential wasted on copious quantities of vapid and vacuous content.

Yes indeed. And time we’ll never get back...ugh. Again, I do like youth generally, and he’s done some cool interviews. I haven’t subscribed, since I’ve actually only subscribed to about four you tubers lol. He’s definitely more pallet-able than many. Lots of dumm fukks with a platform that affords a place to speak without the need for credibility. Reminds me of a certain Yamaha fan gurl we know...
Just like most of the web lol. Oh wait, here I am typing away....lmao.
I think it’s brave to have a YT channel. So many critics and keyboard warriors to tear you down. Fukk em and feed em beans...

 

[lovinthehd]

I just found youthman annoying for the most part. Not much into the self-professed youtube subjective reviewer, maybe for an "unboxing" but beyond that, meh.

 

[ryanosaur]

I just found youthman annoying for the most part. Not much into the self-professed youtube subjective reviewer, maybe for an "unboxing" but beyond that, meh.

Ya, somebody posted a vid of his on the HTP-1 thread at that other site about the age old Separates vs AVR conundrum. Near-flamefest ensued. Sheer stupidity of subjective claims on the part of he and his guest.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ya, somebody posted a vid of his on the HTP-1 thread at that other site about the age old Separates vs AVR conundrum. Near-flamefest ensued. Sheer stupidity of subjective claims on the part of he and his guest.

Yep usually not worth the time to even watch....unless for amusement.

 

[ryanosaur]

Yep usually not worth the time to even watch....unless for amusement.

Nah... that's why I watched his JTR videos.

...



...

That is time I want back.

 

[KEW]

Kurt, @KEW is another one who compared the 5 series and the big K RP’s. I think he felt the same.
FWIW, I believe I saw the “zilla” post on the “other” forum a while back. Hope he’s good. You too, I’ll pm you. Was wondering about your solo thing.

My most extensive experience with Klipsch is with the (2 generations earlier than the RP-8000) RF-82ii's. While bright on axis (but I would not say "harsh" - to my ear), I could find a happy place by using toe-in.
I also have (but have not put in as much time listening to them) RP-160M (6" bookshelf, one generation later, from the same series) and I felt it turned down the brightness a little but also sacrificed a bit of the "crispness" of the RF-82ii's.
By "crispness" referring to the Klipsch, I am talking about the way a tiny percussive sound (such as the proverbial pin-drop) is emphasized and somehow sounds closer than the rest of the sounds. I consider this an inaccuracy, however, I also cannot deny that it is fun and even addictive in some cases.
My general thoughts about the Klipsch RP vs the JBL Studio 5 is the Studio 5 is a more accurate and a better (to my mind) speaker for music; however, the Klipsch provides an artificial enhancement (immediacy to the sound) for HT that adds excitement and fun to a well recorded movie which I would reject as a purest, but cannot discount as far as the simple joy of the thrill that extra immediacy adds to a well recorded movie. So intellectually the Klipsch has issues, but emotionally, I find the Klipsch a thrill for watching a good movie. If you are 80% or greater HT (20% or less music), I think it makes sense to take a close look at Klipsch to do your own evaluation.
To my ear, it is not like the Klipsch ruins the music, but there are times when that immediacy seems out of place.

This is all my subjective opinion, but it is nothing mysterious! If you and a friend sit across a quiet room with paper rolled into a cone/horn and whisper a conversation back and forth, I believe you will hear the same immediacy of the hard consonants (T's, K's, etc). Of course the Klipsch horn is much more sophisticated, but it still has the same horn character. I would love to have an honest conversation with the designer of their horn shape to see how they talk about the horn artifices (and associated trade-offs), but from a PR standpoint, I am certain such a conversation would not happen!
The Studio 5's manage to shake the clear presence of these horn artifacts, despite being horns. They are probably still there at some level, but never caught my attention the way the Klipsch do.
Unfortunately, I have only briefly heard the current generation of the Klipsch (without opportunity for comparison) and do not remember them well enough to properly comment on them, aside from saying that I felt the brightness was mostly gone.

On the bass end of things, the Klipsch is lean, but tight, while the JBL's are stronger, but not quite so distinct with articulation. My JBL 580 (6.5"woofer) had deeper/stronger bass than the RF-82ii's (8" woofers). I would not consider the JBL sloppy, nor would I consider the Klipsch anemic. I can enjoy the bass of either and turning a bass knob or EQ would likely compensate for most of my perceived differences. If you add sub(s) with 80Hz XO, I think it is a wash!

 

[shadyJ]

Can't really help you with Paradigm.
We have a friend here, who is taking a break from the forum, that went from SVS Prime to Klipsch RP8000F to JBL Studio 590. I think I referenced his experience earlier, but he found the JBLs to be better than the Klipsch. Mind, that particular model, the 800F is probably the best testing of their speakers.
Anyway, If SVS, I would argue for the Prime Pinnacle as the benchmark. It reviewed very well here at AH with very nice Measurements. Those matched with Ultra Center would make for a nice Front 3.
Beyond that, some of the Paradigms are well respected speakers, but the recommended ones get pricey. Their more affordable models seem somewhat inconsistent in terms of overall performance and quality. In fact I think a member here shared a story and photos of a Paradigm purchase that literally fell apart in the boxes!

Anyway, the best Klipsch has to offer is still woefully inadequate in my book. Yes, I am harsh. They have the ability to build a better speaker and don't. They look nice, sure, but if their best falls apart, sonically, in the Midrange where they cross from woofer to tweeter, why would anybody recommend that. This does not seem to be the case with the JBL Studio 5 line.
Those JBLs also use Horn-Loaded Compression Drivers, but in a 2-1/2-way design: everything I've seen and heard from other members is pretty standard: praise. *shrugs

Again, if you want to try them, SVS will ship and pay for returns. All you are out if you don't like them is time to audition them over 45 days. All of their speakers are made to mix and match in terms of SQ and voicing, so the Front 3 I suggested up above could be augmented with any of their other Ultra or Prime line of speakers. Throw in a Sub or two and in one wild shopping spree you can have a very respectable HT set up.

Your next best bet would be ordering through Crutchfield, but you will have to pay restocking fees if you return something. If you want to try things out though, order one each of your two favorite towers and try them against each other. You'd have to call them and ask how that would work in terms of restocking.

What's your actual budget? What are you wanting to build out, or, what is your goal with this purchase?

Klipsch can build good speakers, but they aren't really compelled to when all of their speakers sell so well that it doesn't matter how good or bad they are. There are a lot of Klipsch speakers with real problems. Every bookshelf speaker I have seen measured exhibited serious problems. The Heritage speakers are horrendous by modern standards of fidelity. The center channels couldn't be anything other than problematic. I really want to measure one out of morbid curiosity. On the other hand, the RP-8000F was a legitimately good speaker. It was more linear than the Prime Pinnacle, so basically it's more accurate. The Prime Pinnacle is a fine speaker, but I am not sure I would pick it over the RP-8000F.

Another example of Klipsch doing it right is this thing. It's like the cheap version of the RP-8000F, but it measures very well. It's almost like Klipsch's engineers like to sneak in legitimately good engineering when their management isn't looking. Many of the problems in Klipsch designs are avoidable. The newer Klipsch waveguide, which is where a lot of other horn-loaded speakers fall down, isn't bad. Where Klipsch seems to screw up is chasing a 'signature' sound. Even that R-820F has it on-axis, but look what happens at 30-degrees. My guess is that speaker can be made to sound pretty darn good. And it goes on sale frequently for big discounts.

Honestly, sometimes I regret having done that RP-8000F review. It gave Klipsch a better reputation than their other products merited. The problem was that it is a legitimately good speaker. When I reviewed a bunch of tower speakers a couple years ago, I would say they are my favorite of the bunch next to the Paradigms, yet they were by far the cheapest. The bottom line for me is that I wouldn't consider any Klipsch speaker that didn't have third-party evidence of their sound quality.

 

[Pogre]

I loved my Ultra towers, but started with the Ultra books and I love them both. I can only imagine the Pinnacles to be right in a nice little sweet spot between the 2. In fact I most likely would have bought them instead of the full sized towers had they existed at the time.