Texas arresting people in bars for being drunk

[Buckeyefan 1]

I'll save my comments for later.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060322/us_nm/bars_dc

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said on Wednesday.

The first sting operation was conducted recently in a Dallas suburb where agents infiltrated 36 bars and arrested 30 people for public intoxication, said the commission's Carolyn Beck.

Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness, Beck said.

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

"We feel that the only way we're going to get at the drunk driving problem and the problem of people hurting each other while drunk is by crackdowns like this," she said.

"There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated, other than get behind the wheel of a car," Beck said. "People walk out into traffic and get run over, people jump off of balconies trying to reach a swimming pool and miss."

She said the sting operations would continue throughout the state.

 

[gmichael]

That's it! I'm not going to drink any more.

Or any less.
If you see me jumping off the top of a building, trying to land in a glass of water, let me. I deserve the landing I get.

 

[Sheep]

What do you expect. They took away their right to kill raytards now they need to pick on someone else

There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated

Like making this law.

Texas; its illegal to drink here.

SheepStar

 

[sjdgpt]

Standard disclaimer: I do not consume alcohol.


Sounds good to me.

I assume Texas has a law regarding public drunkeness, which makes the arrest legal (which also means that you can't claim that you were going to walk home). Bottom line, why wait till drunk gets behind the wheel of a vehicle and potentially kills me or you?

Remember, the standard is public drunkeness. You can get plastered all you want in your home.

 

[mike c]

i actually agree with this. by the time you catch drunk drivers, they would have driven some distance already, and it is in this distance that they are able to harm other people.

what this doesn't solve is, drinking in a friend's house and then driving home.

 

[jaxvon]

I disagree with them arresting people in the bar. If they had people staked out in the bar and in the parking lot, they could bust people as they got behind the wheel without nailing them on a public drunkenness charge that should apply in areas that are not intended for drinking (IE not the bar).

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I think the FDA should arrest large people for going to the buffet line after 3 or more trips in an all you can eat diner.

If I had a bad day, and a buddie agrees to get me toasted and drive to and fro, I see no issue - especially a bar! I have no problem with a cop outside waiting to arrest someone getting into a car with a set of keys. But doing this inside is a bit too much to ask. You might as well shut down the bar.

 

[mike c]

in theory: they actually don't have to wait in the parking lot ... because they are not charging the people for DUI, but for public drunkenness.

suddenly, I can think of a new product/service for the bars ...
hard drinks delivered to your doorstep! (in 10 mins. or its free)
or
bartender for lease ... $xx for 6 hours - plus cost of drinks

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Reason #7 to never set foot in Texas ......

America is quickly running out of states I will willing travel in/through...

 

[mulester7]

.....Guys, ya' just never know....a sting of 36 bars in Dallas yielded only 30 arrests....and, for all we know, all 30 arrests could have been in only a handful of the 36 bars....nobody likes a sloppy drunk, throwin' up everywhere or being LOUD and obnoxious as they YELL in slurred tones....the owners of the bars could have even requested and promoted the operation, who knows?......

 

[Johnd]

At first glance, I don't have a problem with this, at least in theory.

1) It is not an invasion of privacy issue, as they are being arrested in public places;
2) They are using existing laws of the state (public drunkeness), so there is no argument for entrapment or profiling (the profile seems to be a drunken stupor);
3) While they do not indicate what criteria is used to ascertain their state of "drunkeness", I submit it must be somewhat evident and notorious. They are certainly not going from patron to patron demanding breathalyzer or blood samples. So these miscreants must be manifesting some type of overt drunkeness, which is against the law, in public, in Texas.

While I believe it is a right to convene and even party, there are limits. I'm all for a couple of beers or drinks at the end of the day (once in a while). Hell, I had two double Greater Manhattans (my favorite mix) with a Rocky Patel Edge Robusto (my favorite every day smoke) just last night. And I had them in my home.

Bottom line: they have failed to state exactly what it is that constitutes "public drunkeness", which is what, if anything does in this story, bothers me. But I imagine the miscreants' actions (and/or words) are fairly obvious, if not outrightly overt, offensive and hostile. That is called "public drunkeness", and I, personally, would rather not have to encounter it when I'm out for a pleasant evening.

 

[markw]

Aren't there laws against hunting in a baited field?

I'll save my comments for later.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060322/us_nm/bars_dc

I dunno. AFICT, as long as they keep it in hte bar, the owner doesn't have a problem, they don't hurt others, and they don't drive, I see it as a a personal choice.

FWIW,I rarely frequent bars or drink.

 

[Buckle-meister]

I agree with both Jaxvon and Buckeyefan 1; nail them outside as they go to drive away, not in the bar itself.

...they actually don't have to wait in the parking lot ... because they are not charging the people for DUI, but for public drunkenness.

Yes, but nailing folk as they go to drive away would hurt them far more than getting a fine simply for being over the legal limit. I would've thought that this would be a far more attractive prospect to the Police too.

 

[Johnd]

Yes, but nailing folk as they go to drive away would hurt them far more than getting a fine simply for being over the legal limit. I would've thought that this would be a far more attractive prospect to the Police too.

I really don't think that is their intent. Contrary to some people's opinions, we are not a police state here. I do not believe the objective of these arrests is to "nail" them; nor to line the city's coffers with easy money. It's called PUBLIC SAFETY. And I'm all for it (with some caveats: due process, equal protection, and general constitutional observance).

 

[Buckle-meister]

I do not believe the objective of these arrests is to "nail" them; nor to line the city's coffers with easy money. It's called PUBLIC SAFETY.

I understand, but I reckon public safety is better upheld by stopping drunk drivers than drunk pedestrians.

 

[Johnd]

Agreed. But one can be publicly drunk without anyone being the wiser. When does one "cross the line" to the point where the police see a need to arrest? And law enforcement is not a this or that kind of thing. It is this, that, and the other thing. Meaning, any crime is arrestable, but everyday law enforcement officers look the other way, and crime begets crime (the objective of law enforcement is to keep all crime low, not just murders, or drunk drivers). My $0.02.

 

[hifiman]

confusing

I was under the impression that Texas allowed open containers in vehicles and even allowed drivers to drink while driving as long as their under the legal limit. Anyone from Texas here to clarify? Because I don't understand how you can allow this and yet claim you are doing this in the bars to prevent drunk driving.

 

[rolski]

To save time, resources and uncertainty, shouldn't they just arrest anyone that hands over the money for any alcoholic beverage....

 

[gmichael]

Why not install breathalizers at all the exits. Anyone who blows over .08 can't leave.

"Oops, I blew a 2.5. Guess I'll stay and have another." "Hey, how did the floor get so close?"

 

[brian32672]

To save time, resources and uncertainty, shouldn't they just arrest anyone that hands over the money for any alcoholic beverage....

LOL, yeah that's one way to look at it. (think prohibition and revolution)

Anyhow, I see Ron's (Mule's) point. I had spoke with him on the phone.
And we both came up with the conclusion, that there is not enough info on that report. By saying 36 bars and only 30 arrests, well that is minimal. However, it does not say, that the cops may have just been bouncing around to look at bars, and then made a bunch of arrests at a few particular bars. So then the actual arrests could have been like 5 people from 6 bars. We don't know.
If that is the case, then I feel it is wrong.


I did not want to post, because there are just to many PITAs here, that just want to argue. Hear themselves heard/typed, and make useless points, are insensitive, and or just want to attack a persons opinion with dumb*ss slander. (if this is the case, I will delete this post, unsubscribe from the thread and be done with posting at AH - clearly I use IMO quite a bit - so should you (not pointing a finger at anyone), rather than attack and ridicule a person, bad taste IMO. This is why there are PMs, be a man and use the PM, keep the slander off the boards....)
So I was not going to say this. But since I have seen stuff like this first hand, I felt, I guess that I would post it.

Granted the Fort Lauderdale bars here were completely against the stiffer searches for drunks.
As it totally killed revenue. Also who is to say (speaking of Fort Lauderdale) that these people walked to the bar, got drunk - and walked back to the hotel (in Ft. Lauderdale strip, there was basically a bar then a hotel then a bar then a hotel, etc...)

So I had sent this PM to Buck (Todd), his sentiments were 'exactly'.
Anyhow, here is my thoughts....

(PM)
This will not fly. (IMO)
It will be easy to beat in court.
Who is to say, that the persons intentions were not this - I stepped outside with the intention of calling a cab (or a friend for that matter) and while I walked outside to get away from the bar noise and make a call on my cell phone (or pay phone 10 feet away), I was arrested. (may have actually been walking to my car to get my cell phone)
Granted, ok - you could say, 'public intoxication.
I would think any judge in their right mind would have to give lead-way if person was arrested within 10 feet of the bar door.

So by Texas standards. If all the people in the bar are drunk, and all have cab rides. Then walking to the cab is illegal.

Picture this.
All the people are drunk, and the bar calls a cab for people. However that night, there was a fire in the bar. Anyone who steps outside will be arrested for public intoxication.

IMO, it sounds like a foolish way to spend U.S. tax dollars so that a cop can be posted at every bar in town.
Sounds more like cold war times. (Think Russian, by chance I am Russian)(Russian - Italian )
Or even the gestapo. (think German)

I know this would never happen (stick) in Florida.
Because this is a money state. Cops and courts thrive on DUIs.
Public intoxication is like a 50.00 fine (minimal misdemeanor). DUI here will cost you thousands for the first.
Second DUI within 3-5 years, and forget it. It will cost in and around $10,000.00
And who do you think gets that money.
(yes, the lawyers get some, but I have been there, the court costs, fees, driving schools, etc.. all that money goes to the state)

EDIT:: Added below quote.

Why not install breathalizers at all the exits. Anyone who blows over .08 can't leave.

"Oops, I blew a 2.5. Guess I'll stay and have another." "Hey, how did the floor get so close?"

Funny. Actually one time here I was being served papers, by an ex. who called the cops and said I was at the bar, you can serve the papers here now.
The cops came, and I signed for the paper, I said ok I am going to go home now. Cop says, I can't allow you to drive, I said ok, can I go back in and have a few more drinks, he said yes as long as I don't see you drive. (Yes this is a true story that happened to me many years ago)
The woman (my ex) asked the cop for me to leave so she could enjoy the social life at the bar, he told her - this is a public place, he can drink here if he wants. Then the cop left, and so did she. She was a very vindictive lady.