Synergistic Research challenge to Audioholics.

H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
This guy is a criminal in my book, a straight up criminal. 30 grand for an 8 foot cable, and I think it's 1,500 more for each additional foot. I mean dude go straight to hell, do not pass go, just go straight to hell. I hope he is reading this because he is flat out scum.

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M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
Even if this were to happen, why not do the test at a site not owned by Ted Douchy?. Just bring his magic 30k cables to a neutral test site and get honest results
I was thinking the same thing. Get some real tests done by an independent third party and be done with it.
 
A

aceinc

Audioholic
I have a slightly different take on this.

First let me say, I believe once you get to a rather low quality threshold things like speaker cables, interconnects and power conditioners will have little to no impact on the sound of a system.

Having said that, I do not believe a crime is committed without coercion or fraud. I also believe in personal responsibility. If I have the money and I believe the marketing hype about the McLaren F1, and it makes me happy, then I should buy it. McLaren should be able to make it, and I should be able to buy it at whatever price they can get from my bank account.

Now if McLaren is lying demonstrably about technical specifications while trying to sell me the vehicle, then that would be a crime. So is Synergistics demonstrably lying (fraud) about their products? BS marketing weasel words do not count. I am not qualified to tell. If they are, or they are in some way coercing people to buy their products that is a crime. Anything else is just wealth redistribution.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
I have a slightly different take on this.

First let me say, I believe once you get to a rather low quality threshold things like speaker cables, interconnects and power conditioners will have little to no impact on the sound of a system.

Having said that, I do not believe a crime is committed without coercion or fraud. I also believe in personal responsibility. If I have the money and I believe the marketing hype about the McLaren F1, and it makes me happy, then I should buy it. McLaren should be able to make it, and I should be able to buy it at whatever price they can get from my bank account.

Now if McLaren is lying demonstrably about technical specifications while trying to sell me the vehicle, then that would be a crime. So is Synergistics demonstrably lying (fraud) about their products? BS marketing weasel words do not count. I am not qualified to tell. If they are, or they are in some way coercing people to buy their products that is a crime. Anything else is just wealth redistribution.
A performance car and a cable aren't even in the same universe.
This guy and his company are criminals. Yeah can't put him in jail for what he does but criminal is what I call him. Straight to hell also for selling a cable 30 grand.
I call his customers absolute suckers as well. Suckers with lots of money but suckers just the same.

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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I have a slightly different take on this.

First let me say, I believe once you get to a rather low quality threshold things like speaker cables, interconnects and power conditioners will have little to no impact on the sound of a system.

Having said that, I do not believe a crime is committed without coercion or fraud. I also believe in personal responsibility. If I have the money and I believe the marketing hype about the McLaren F1, and it makes me happy, then I should buy it. McLaren should be able to make it, and I should be able to buy it at whatever price they can get from my bank account.

Now if McLaren is lying demonstrably about technical specifications while trying to sell me the vehicle, then that would be a crime. So is Synergistics demonstrably lying (fraud) about their products? BS marketing weasel words do not count. I am not qualified to tell. If they are, or they are in some way coercing people to buy their products that is a crime. Anything else is just wealth redistribution.
Lying about performance benefits and taking advantage of placebo and confirmation bias falls under the fraud category for me. It's deceptive practice. Gene has shown demonstrably that the claimed benefits of some of these cables are not there in measurements, and in fact some are actually worse than regular ol' ofc copper of appropriate gauge. I don't think it's much different from psychics, essential oils and divine healers. If it's not illegal it should be.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Trying to equate cables to cars is super flawed. Touting the "performance benefits" of a speaker cable is like saying this gas pedal gives you more performance for your car. You'd be better off comparing cars to speakers, where you're paying for performance and looks, and there is a point of diminishing returns to each.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Trying to equate cables to cars is super flawed. Touting the "performance benefits" of a speaker cable is like saying this gas pedal gives you more performance for your car. You'd be better off comparing cars to speakers, where you're paying for performance and looks, and there is a point of diminishing returns to each.
Now that's a car analogy that works!
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Field Marshall
Now that's a car analogy that works!
Forget that, Synergistic is releasing new battery cables... they make your car run chocolaty smooth and will boost Horsepower, but you will not be able to measure it on a race track, but it sounds good.
 
A

aceinc

Audioholic
I guess my point is I dislike throwing around the term "crime." I also think protecting people from them self is at best a thankless task.

I've run a business for 37 years and would never engage in these practices. Additionally since my business is consulting I have had the opportunity to see deceptive practices many times over the years. I dislike the people and businesses who engage in them. Synergistic seems to be particularly egregious in their marketing "fluff."

On the other hand audio is generally considered a discretionary activity & purchase not a necessity. I would take a much harder line if the products being sold were either a necessity or they were of such substandard quality as to be dangerous.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I guess my point is I dislike throwing around the term "crime." I also think protecting people from them self is at best a thankless task.

I've run a business for 37 years and would never engage in these practices. Additionally since my business is consulting I have had the opportunity to see deceptive practices many times over the years. I dislike the people and businesses who engage in them. Synergistic seems to be particularly egregious in their marketing "fluff."

On the other hand audio is generally considered a discretionary activity & purchase not a necessity. I would take a much harder line if the products being sold were either a necessity or they were of such substandard quality as to be dangerous.
So fraud is okay in audio? Or business if you don't have to get your own hands dirty or get paid to not care?
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well I will say I'm not trying to save anyone from being taken by this company. If you are spending 30 grand for a cable then you probably have more money than you know what to do with. They are suckers and bad ones at that. Personally I think it borders on criminal but it's definitely evil in my book.

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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
To be clear Ted has been on a constant crusade of harassing and obsessive behavior with me since I had COVID-19. I documented my entire experience about this here:


The same day he issued this "challenge" he had his lawyer issue a cease and desist for me to remove the forum thread related to this article within 48 hours or he would take legal action.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
To be clear Ted has been on a constant crusade of harassing and obsessive behavior with me since I had COVID-19. I documented my entire experience about this here:


The same day he issued this "challenge" he had his lawyer issue a cease and desist for me to remove the forum thread related to this article within 48 hours or he would take legal action.
I wonder just how many suckers there are out there buying overpriced, criminally over priced cables?
On a side note if there are a lot of people spending 30 grand on a cable then I really am for raising taxes on the wealthy to 90%. I mean even the government would spend money on better things than overpriced snake oil cables.

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A

aceinc

Audioholic
So fraud is okay in audio? Or business if you don't have to get your own hands dirty or get paid to not care?
If it is fraud, then he should be prosecuted. If it is legal marketing hype, then education, which is what Gene is trying to do, may be the only option.

To prosecute, a victim is needed. Most people who buy the product either believe in the product, or are too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake. If you know someone willing to be a victim, see if they can send the payment or the product via USPS, preferably across state lines.

I am very much against fraud in all its forms, but I also try to avoid wasting energy on things where I cannot affect the outcome.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If it is fraud, then he should be prosecuted. If it is legal marketing hype, then education, which is what Gene is trying to do, may be the only option.

To prosecute, a victim is needed. Most people who buy the product either believe in the product, or are too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake. If you know someone willing to be a victim, see if they can send the payment or the product via USPS, preferably across state lines.

I am very much against fraud in all its forms, but I also try to avoid wasting energy on things where I cannot affect the outcome.
Yes it does have legal challenges but Thed is still a fraud with fraudulent products with outrageous claims. In some countries they can at least attack the claims. Our FTC is nowhere near that capable let alone interested or funded. It's a snake oil salesman's paradise, tho.
 
A

aceinc

Audioholic
To be clear Ted has been on a constant crusade of harassing and obsessive behavior with me since I had COVID-19. I documented my entire experience about this here:


The same day he issued this "challenge" he had his lawyer issue a cease and desist for me to remove the forum thread related to this article within 48 hours or he would take legal action.
I remember reading about this a while back. His actions and behavior are those of a shyster.

I believe I understand your desire to rid the industry of companies which prey on the naivete and gullibility of consumers who do not have the time and/or inclination to understand some of the core concepts. I suspect it is a combination of altruism and protectionism.

To more effectively rid the industry of these folks, their enablers need to be rooted out as well. I can think of at least one, perhaps more folks who are "audiophile experts" and have a following who publish videos and 'zine articles promoting the balderdash.

But I go back to my original premise, if a person has spent $50k on amplifiers and $85k on speakers why shouldn't they be able to spend $8k on a power cord? If you take the $50k amplifier and put it next to a $10k Magtech, or some other well built amplifier, you measure them in their respective operating ranges, can you tell the difference? If you take a $30 power cord and measure it against a $900 power cord or a $8k power cord there will be little to no difference and what difference there may be will have no audible difference in the real world. Should we shut down every company selling power cords for more than $30?
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
After all isn't that how most of the "Wealthy" got that way in the first place by ripping the rich and poor ones off. They just pass it on down to ole John Q. In this country it's called Capitalist. But don't worry so much about taxies being raised on the 1%er's. Ole Biden is already working on his old way of same ole same ole.
I'm not worried about the rich being taxed more, they never do. They always find a way around paying more in taxes.

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A

aceinc

Audioholic
I'm not worried about the rich being taxed more, they never do. They always find a way around paying more in taxes.

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If this were true, they wouldn't be paying their congress people so much to fight taxes.

This premise is just another part (small) of their propaganda campaign to keep people from fully supporting taxing the wealthy. Classify it under the "fait accompli" so "Why bother it doesn't help anyway" reasoning.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
Straight to hell also for selling a cable 30 grand.
disagree, if he's able to sell a cable for 30k I call it pure genius.......

I call his customers absolute suckers as well. Suckers with lots of money but suckers just the same.
now there we agree !

personally I don't give a rats rear end what he attempts to sell or what some fool buys from him. In the end he's still a douche ..............
 

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