SVS sub choice - need help

E

EJ1

Audioholic Chief
Thank you sir.... I just tell it like I hear it....

Ultimately everyone has their own opinion of how things should sound, and I really didn't have an opinion until I tried on these different types of subs...

Its nice to be able to sample some of the upper end products, the small but sonic differences make each one unique, and there definitely differences.
I noticed you have a JL F112. What SVS subs compare to the JL? How do you like JL's Automatic Room Optimization? Does SVS have anything similar to that? Thanks.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
I noticed you have a JL F112. What SVS subs compare to the JL? How do you like JL's Automatic Room Optimization? Does SVS have anything similar to that? Thanks.
Hey Ej1....

I'm not sure that I am totally qualified to answer that... I have not heard the Ultra13 which in my book would be the only sub that SVS has that can compare in terms of SQ and output, taking in regards the very well designed and built cabinet, as well as the top notch driver. I do have the SB12-Plus, and its a great little sub, but I don't think the driver performance nor the build quality is comparable to the JL. I would have bought a Ultra13, no question about it, instead of the F112, if it were not for room size constraints.

As far as room optimization on the F112 (ARO), I have it disengaged, and I want to revisit that. I ran the ARO in my room but the output dropped significantly... I was told to just boost the gain on the sub, but I haven't tried that yet.. In my room, with the ARO disengaged the bass is incredible already, but I haven't graphed it out at all either... If I felt like I was having any issues, then I would have messed with it and charted it by now, but for me its great now.

Ultimately I will be bringing my Velodyne SMS-1 into that system from my other setup. The SMS-1 that is in my great room will be replaced with SVS's upcoming AS-EQ1

You can find discussion on that over here.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007

That should be an excellent piece of hardware... with stated fully automatic implementation, and having custom designed Audyessy software handling the processing... I am very intrigued about that unit, and i'm sure that it will easily blow away the onboard JL Audio ARO system, seeing as its really just an automatic single band PEQ.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Warp, any idea if SVS is going to make that EQ? You started that thread at AVS about 14 months ago. Just curious, as you might have talked to SVS about it lately.

Thanks.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Something like that is going to take some serious testing.... I'll bet its out this year.... they are testing now. They haven't givin a definitive date as of yet, but you can bet that it will be released.

R&D on a unit like that can't be the easiest... and they are working hand in hand with Audyessy, so its just a matter of time. I have been patient...
 
E

EJ1

Audioholic Chief
Thanks for your feedback, Warpdrv. I have a chance to get employee accommodation pricing on the JL F112 and F113, but if SVS had something equivalent, I was going to consider them.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I have never heard a good sub for music, just home theater. Am I going to be blown away listening to music when I get one?
There are two things necessary for the subwoofer to be good for music. One is mentioned by Warpdrv; you need a good quality one for it to sound good. The other part that most people bungle is properly setting it up. Many people like to turn it up too high for a flat frequency response, because they like the rumble of explosions to be louder than the sound engineer wanted them to be. This gives them an unnatural, "boomy" amount of bass with music, which is less than ideal (I think excessive bass is always less than ideal, but obviously there are plenty of people who want more bass than what is mixed into the sound). If you have listened to the typical home theater system, this is what you have likely encountered, and it has likely caused you to believe that subwoofers are bad for music.

If you want accurate, deep bass, set it so that you have a flat frequency response. I have two SVS CS-Ultras (these are the old 12" woofer Ultra cylinders, and they are unpowered, so I use a separate power amplifier to drive them). I set them to give me basically a flat frequency response down to about 15 Hz. There is nothing like truly deep, flat bass response. I have never heard better bass on anyone else's system.

If you listen to music that actually has deep bass (e.g., some pipe organ music, etc.), then it will make a very significant difference, and no "full range" speaker that does not go flat down below 20 Hz will ever sound as good as having a good, properly set up subwoofer.

The thing is, a separate subwoofer gives the user the option of screwing up the sound by not having the balance between the subwoofer and the main speakers correct. (Just imagine how it would be if everyone had a separate powered woofer, powered midrange, and powered tweeter, and set the relative volume according to personal preference; very few people would set it properly for a flat frequency response.)
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
IMO, the JL's are great.... fantastic for music, very tight and clean....

For movies they are pretty dam good as well, but I like the ability to adjust the tune a bit lower, and the SVS's gives you that option where a sealed sub will not.

The rolloff on a sealed sub limits how much output you can get down in the teens, and after having ported subs that can achieve that material in movies, I kind of miss it with the JL, but it certainly goes pretty low, but just doesn't hit as down low like the ported guys...

Don't get me wrong, the Fathoms are superb subs, and I am super happy I bought one just to see what they are capable of. I am extremely happy with it in my relatively small room, it can be downright scary... :eek::eek::D

But that really just comes down to preference.....
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
IMO, the JL's are great.... fantastic for music, very tight and clean....

Your all a bunch of light weights.:p

When my retirement plan kicks in (ie. I win the lottery) I'm going to one-up rmk and run quad Gathoms, why......because I'm rich bi$ch.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
There are two things necessary for the subwoofer to be good for music. One is mentioned by Warpdrv; you need a good quality one for it to sound good. The other part that most people bungle is properly setting it up. Many people like to turn it up too high for a flat frequency response, because they like the rumble of explosions to be louder than the sound engineer wanted them to be. This gives them an unnatural, "boomy" amount of bass with music, which is less than ideal (I think excessive bass is always less than ideal, but obviously there are plenty of people who want more bass than what is mixed into the sound). If you have listened to the typical home theater system, this is what you have likely encountered, and it has likely caused you to believe that subwoofers are bad for music.

If you want accurate, deep bass, set it so that you have a flat frequency response. I have two SVS CS-Ultras (these are the old 12" woofer Ultra cylinders, and they are unpowered, so I use a separate power amplifier to drive them). I set them to give me basically a flat frequency response down to about 15 Hz. There is nothing like truly deep, flat bass response. I have never heard better bass on anyone else's system.

If you listen to music that actually has deep bass (e.g., some pipe organ music, etc.), then it will make a very significant difference, and no "full range" speaker that does not go flat down below 20 Hz will ever sound as good as having a good, properly set up subwoofer.

The thing is, a separate subwoofer gives the user the option of screwing up the sound by not having the balance between the subwoofer and the main speakers correct. (Just imagine how it would be if everyone had a separate powered woofer, powered midrange, and powered tweeter, and set the relative volume according to personal preference; very few people would set it properly for a flat frequency response.)
With a certain sub, I was able to get a "flat" response. Even after placing in several different locations, the sub just did NOT sound musical to me. Just because you achieve a flat in-room response does not guarantee whether or not a sub will sound musical. If, on the other hand, a sub is tuned real low it will come at a cost in output-usually that being in the midbass region where most of the musical action is at. Of course, there are subs such as the Ultra 13 that has no problem digging real deep while at the same time remaing very tight, punchy, and articulate. BTW, I believe we have discussed this in great detail over the phone if I remember correctly. No pun intended here.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Something like that is going to take some serious testing.... I'll bet its out this year.... they are testing now. They haven't givin a definitive date as of yet, but you can bet that it will be released.

R&D on a unit like that can't be the easiest... and they are working hand in hand with Audyessy, so its just a matter of time. I have been patient...
Well, SVS mentioned that equalizer in their latest newsletter. Hopefully they'll start shipping later this year...
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I want one too. Just curious about the pricing. Maybe its a good thing I never sprung for an SMS-1.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Well, SVS mentioned that equalizer in their latest newsletter. Hopefully they'll start shipping later this year...

I started a thread over at AVS on this product to get some discussion going, and would love to hear more... Read up over there about some good info...

Would love to see more discussed about it from SVS... they have been somewhat tight lipped...
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
I started a thread over at AVS on this product to get some discussion going, and would love to hear more... Read up over there about some good info...

Would love to see more discussed about it from SVS... they have been somewhat tight lipped...
Warp, thanks. Good info. I checked out your AVS thread last month based on the link in this thread, and I was posting this here mostly as a follow-up to our short discussion back then.

It does seem like it'll be interesting. Can't say that I'll get it, as my Ultra has some nice adjustments on it...but I'm sure that I'll end up considering a pre-order. :)
 
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