Svs sb2000 or pb2000

[tyhjaarpa]

We dont have that one in Sweden..

BK offers international delivery as they are internet direct retailer, so you can order from them as well. My experience with them is really good.

 

[Peter Jansson]

BK offers international delivery as they are internet direct retailer, so you can order from them as well. My experience with them is really good.

Ok

 

[lovinthehd]

We dont have that one in Sweden..

How about XTZ? They're Swedish after all, right in your own back yard....https://www.xtz.se/

 

[Peter Jansson]

How about XTZ? They're Swedish after all, right in your own back yard....https://www.xtz.se/

Yep
but i can get 2 svs pb12 for 1199$ now and i Think they are better then xtz subbs.
So qustion was if i should have ported or sealded and the 12 or 2000 modell if its worth the extra money the 2000 modell cost or Save money and go for the 12 modell sb or pb in my 1433.25 ft3 room..

 

[lovinthehd]

Yep
but i can get 2 svs pb12 for 1199$ now and i Think they are better then xtz subbs.
So qustion was if i should have ported or sealded and the 12 or 2000 modell if its worth the extra money the 2000 modell cost or Save money and go for the 12 modell sb or pb in my 1433.25 ft3 room..

XTZ seems to make a good product from what I've gleaned in a few forums, altho I'm not familiar with their lineup, remember mostly reading about a 3x12" sub they have that seemed pretty potent. I was more curious why they wouldn't be competitive in Sweden...what makes SVS better in your opinion?

I'm not familiar with all the variations on the 12" subs SVS has put out either.
I did look up PB12 earlier and saw more than one designation, like PB12 NSD, PB Plus and PB Ultra, but not sure what the differences between those and the current PB2000s are....could be slight differences in driver, maybe amp. Hopefully someone will come around and advise on all the changes/differences.

Two decent ported 12" subs for $1200 sounds pretty good in a general sense, especially for your size room, and what extra you get for $725 for perhaps two slightly better 12" ported subs from the same general heritage....right now I'm leaning towards saving the money and go for the PB12"s.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Yep
but i can get 2 svs pb12 for 1199$ now and i Think they are better then xtz subbs.
So qustion was if i should have ported or sealded and the 12 or 2000 modell if its worth the extra money the 2000 modell cost or Save money and go for the 12 modell sb or pb in my 1433.25 ft3 room..

I think dual Monolith would cost around 1200-1300$ shipped as well. How ever there is no info found how they would compare to PB2000. Dual monolith Plus would go for around 1500-1600$.

Ported sub is the way to go in your room, what ever brand you choose.

 

[Peter Jansson]

I think dual Monolith would cost around 1200-1300$ shipped as well. How ever there is no info found how they would compare to PB2000. Dual monolith Plus would go for around 1500-1600$.

Ported sub is the way to go in your room, what ever brand you choose.

And you Think so even that my ceiling is youst 6.5 foot high..? No risk whit boomynes you Think..?

 

[tyhjaarpa]

And you Think so even that my ceiling is youst 6.5 foot high..? No risk whit boomynes you Think..?

I don't know where you have got idea that ported subs would be boomy on your room. Suggested subs are well designed subs and you don't need to worry about "boomyness".

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I don't know where you have got idea that ported subs would be boomy on your room. Suggested subs are well designed subs and you don't need to worry about "boomyness".

I agree. Boominess normally comes from a high Q sub that lacks control, and has a bump in the response to compensate for lack of extension, or to sound louder than it really is. A good linear ported sub shouldn’t sound any different until you get down to the lower frequencies, and this is where the op will use his subs the most. I see no issue with these subs, and like I said earlier was turn them down if they’re overpowering. I’ve also used the sb2k, albeit on concrete, and with vaulted ceilings, but I don’t believe if he’s into action movies, that he’ll be totally satisfied.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't know where you have got idea that ported subs would be boomy on your room. Suggested subs are well designed subs and you don't need to worry about "boomyness".

I agree. Boominess normally comes from a high Q sub that lacks control, and has a bump in the response to compensate for lack of extension, or to sound louder than it really is. A good linear ported sub shouldn’t sound any different until you get down to the lower frequencies, and this is where the op will use his subs the most. I see no issue with these subs, and like I said earlier was turn them down if they’re overpowering. I’ve also used the sb2k, albeit on concrete, and with vaulted ceilings, but I don’t believe if he’s into action movies, that he’ll be totally satisfied.

I'd agree it's not something to worry about.

I was thinking he got it from this bit he shared from his chat with the customer service guy at SVS (or their rep?):



"I talked whit a guy at svs and he told me that.
Going dual will help with the room being dead. It will smooth everything out. Ported subs in a space that size may sound boomy or a bit overwhelming. With that being said, you never know what you’re going to get until you get the product in your system.


My recommendation is to go with the Sealed subwoofers and if they don’t fit your needs, go ported. It would really surprise me if you aren’t satisfied with the SB-2000s though. J"

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I'd agree it's not something to worry about.

I was thinking he got it from this bit he shared from his chat with the customer service guy at SVS (or their rep?):



"I talked whit a guy at svs and he told me that.
Going dual will help with the room being dead. It will smooth everything out. Ported subs in a space that size may sound boomy or a bit overwhelming. With that being said, you never know what you’re going to get until you get the product in your system.


My recommendation is to go with the Sealed subwoofers and if they don’t fit your needs, go ported. It would really surprise me if you aren’t satisfied with the SB-2000s though. J"

I think so too. Plus he’s in the SVS Black Friday thread and @KEW is going the other direction from us. Lol.
My friend has an sb2000 in a smallish basement install, and it does pretty darn good. Until you lean on it hard. I still say ported.
Plus, OP has Dirac live.

 

[lovinthehd]

Kurt does like his sealed sub beliefs....

 

[Andrein]

Not trying to convince anyone. Have same room in volume 15x15x7 and 2 sb2000. Personally never had any problems with spl. Never had any clipping or distortion from subs either.

It is a question of preference and pb200 will give more spl. I am just saying that for this kind of room with normal listening habbits of -15-10db (add 9db for subs in my case) on average there should not be any issue. It is not a big room for 2 subs even sealed.

Maybe i missed that. How far would subs be from listening position approx? I know you would probably need to experiment with subs placing.

 

[KEW]

I think so too. Plus he’s in the SVS Black Friday thread and @KEW is going the other direction from us. Lol.
My friend has an sb2000 in a smallish basement install, and it does pretty darn good. Until you lean on it hard. I still say ported.
Plus, OP has Dirac live.

I am not certain what aspect it is that makes the difference, but ported subs and over aggressively EQ'ed sealed subs that I have heard were not on the same level of sound quality - musical tightness as my Rythmik and PSA sealed subs.

It may be that these subs are designed to have an anechoically flat FR down to 20Hz which is essentially guaranteeing you do not have a flat response after room gain. Or maybe it is the Q value that TLSGuy champions.

As I have quoted before, Josh Ricci said of the PSA sealed XS15se:

The basic frequency response shape with the low pass filter bypassed shows a response that is cleanly extended up to 200Hz and beyond, with a gently sloping low end that corners at 30Hz and appears to enter a sealed systems natural 12dB/octave roll off below that point. It should be a good match with the boost often seen in the low bass once placed in room.

So he is clearly making the point that a sealed sub offers a good frequency response to compliment typical room gain.

Also, I would defy you to show me a ported sub which exhibits the excellent group delay and impulse response of the XS15se (a $800 sub):

Maybe this is overkill and the performance does not need to be this good to sound good, but since I hear muddy sloppy bass from the ported subs I have heard, and this is the obvious difference in the measurements (aside from the FR-rolloff), I will not rule it out.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I am not certain what aspect it is that makes the difference, but ported subs and over aggressively EQ'ed sealed subs that I have heard were not on the same level of sound quality - musical tightness as my Rythmik and PSA sealed subs.

It may be that these subs are designed to have an anechoically flat FR down to 20Hz which is essentially guaranteeing you do not have a flat response after room gain. Or maybe it is the Q value that TLSGuy champions.

As I have quoted before, Josh Ricci said of the PSA sealed XS15se:


So he is clearly making the point that a sealed sub offers a good frequency response to compliment typical room gain.

Also, I would defy you to show me a ported sub which exhibits the excellent group delay and impulse response of the XS15se (a $800 sub):

Maybe this is overkill and the performance does not need to be this good to sound good, but since I hear muddy sloppy bass from the ported subs I have heard, and this is the obvious difference in the measurements (aside from the FR-rolloff), I will not rule it out.

As before Kurt, I’m not the best at interpreting group delay charts, but it looks to me like where the psa’s GD is exemplary, is below where most music content is. Again, I don’t feel GD is that big a factor in music systems with ported subs since GD doesn’t really get ugly until we get into the tuning frequency. Since the OP’s focus is movies, I still say ported is the way to go. Especially when you consider sealed subs can require up to 4x the excursion to match the output of a ported sub at say, 20hz. That can add a lot of distortion, and that’s where he’s looking for the most performance. As far as the xs15se is concerned, I think in theory, josh is right. That slope can absolutely match the right room, but you might also read his article about room gain. It’s most interesting, and echoes many’s thoughts that room gain is often overstated, and not necessarily calculated correctly. Even properly calculated, in practice, sealed still has to com up with more power and excursion to match ported subs efficiency which means money!
As far as your rythmik is concerned, well, you’re spoiled. I definitely can’t say how you came to your conclusions about the sloppy bass from other systems, but in the “over aggressively” EQ’d sealed ones you mentioned, it could easily have been the distortion you may have noticed from the boost(no free lunch), or poor damping, or crummy driver, or even poor Integration. Hard to say. I agree with mark that Q is a big factor, but I haven’t built enough subwoofers or speakers to say exactly how big. as for finding a ported sub to match the GD of the psa? Probably not but I don’t think it would matter for music. Fwiw, even Tom V has said for most music, you won’t be able to tell a difference between a well designed vented/sealed sub operating within their limits.

 

[lovinthehd]

Another thought....will these subs be forever in this room?

 

[Peter Jansson]

Hello guy'S and godmorning from Sweden..
Thanks for all input and yes this is a movie room that im going to keep for a long time..

 

[lovinthehd]

Hello guy'S and godmorning from Sweden..
Thanks for all input and yes this is a movie room that im going to keep for a long time..

Good luck with your decision....you likely wouldn't regret either the ported or sealed subs.

 

[shadyJ]

I am not certain what aspect it is that makes the difference, but ported subs and over aggressively EQ'ed sealed subs that I have heard were not on the same level of sound quality - musical tightness as my Rythmik and PSA sealed subs.

It may be that these subs are designed to have an anechoically flat FR down to 20Hz which is essentially guaranteeing you do not have a flat response after room gain. Or maybe it is the Q value that TLSGuy champions.

As I have quoted before, Josh Ricci said of the PSA sealed XS15se:


So he is clearly making the point that a sealed sub offers a good frequency response to compliment typical room gain.

Also, I would defy you to show me a ported sub which exhibits the excellent group delay and impulse response of the XS15se (a $800 sub):

Maybe this is overkill and the performance does not need to be this good to sound good, but since I hear muddy sloppy bass from the ported subs I have heard, and this is the obvious difference in the measurements (aside from the FR-rolloff), I will not rule it out.

Here is the problem with this comparison, a ported sub will always have more group delay at port generated output since the port output is always 1 cycle behind the driver motion. That might be a problem if the sub is tuned to mid bass frequencies, but the subs we discuss here are usually tuned in the 20's or teens Hz range and so is not audible. The impulse response doesn't tell us much about that sub except that is is likely sealed carries most if its energy in higher frequencies. Since a ported sub will almost always have a greater percentage of its energy in the lower part of the frequency band, it will always emit longer recorded energy in an impulse response graph. But even then I could take a ported sub and shape the response to generate a shorter impulse response measurement simply by scraping some of the low end off of the frequency response with some kind of high pass filter. Will the difference be audible? Yes, because it will affect the frequency response.

One way to make a sub sound 'tighter' (to those not acquainted with the original recording) is to accentuate the mid bass frequencies over the lower frequencies. The lower frequencies take longer to develop, and they take longer to recognize by human hearing. The same thing is done with full range loudspeakers: elevate the right upper frequencies and people will think that speaker is more 'detailed'. The reality is shaping a response like that is a distortion.

 

[Muzykant]

I have 2 PC-2000 subs in a small (approximately 1500ft3) room, and they are not boomy at all. In fact, I can't tell they are on when playing normal music. They just seem to extend the range of my Prime Bookshelves when needed.

I used to have a single SB-2000 in their place, and although the output was more than adequate for my needs, I didn't like seeing the cone move during low bass scenes in movies. With a pair of ported subs at the same output all I get is a minor cone vibration.