SVS Prime Pinnacle Tower Speaker Review

3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
The problem is no the wattage, but the tolerance of the receiver to low impedance and very difficult phase angles.

This is the problem.



It is those areas of low impedance from 80 Hz to 500 Hz that are a problem and those areas at 80 and 3 KHz where the phase angles turn sharply negative. These dips result on build up of heat on the output transistors and risk failure.

Unfortunately most modern receivers do not spec a 4 ohm rating, and their power amps are not really robust.

The higher end Yamaha receivers do give a 4 ohm spec and probably are the only ones you should consider. Other than that then you need a receiver with preouts or a pre/pro and use external power amplification.

As rule speakers with more then one bass driver and especially if they are three ways, will present a challenging load to the modern crop of receivers, unless you are really prepared to moderate volume levels. Pretty much anything will drive anything if you keep the volume level low enough.
I've seen a lot phase angle plots reading Soundstage review and I dont recall seeing a phase plot with a phase angle this severe. I have to check this against PSB Imagine 2XT (not sure of exact model number) which has a similar configuration. This is a difficult load to drive.

Here is the link to their measurements. (Im on my tablet and cannot figure out how to paste just the image from the clipboard.) It dips down to 60 degrees as well but decreases faster than the Pinnacles. I wonder if this severe phase angle is a result of a 3 way design.

 
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B

Bentley

Enthusiast
I also wanted to know what is the ideal wattage to give these pinnacles please can someone explain?

Because I was about to order four of them and run them each on 8 ohms 110 watts using a Yamaha RX-A4A.

Would it be better to use a Denon AVC-X4700H ?

Or is there a better option altogether for a 5.1 setup of SVS Prime Pinnacles?


The Yamaha looks like this:

Amplifier SectionChannel
AV ReceiverYamaha RX-A4A
Rated Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven)135 W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven)110 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
Maximum Effective Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven)165 W (8 ohms, 10% THD)



The second option was the Denon below:

Denon AVC-X4700H

(8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive)125 W
(6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive)165 W
(6 ohm, 1 kHz, 1% 1ch Drive)200 W


Which is the best options for the four Pinnacle Towers?

Or is there a better option like a Marantz or something or do I need more/less total amp watts ?

Kind regards from Gregory
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I also wanted to know what is the ideal wattage to give these pinnacles please can someone explain?

Because I was about to order four of them and run them each on 8 ohms 110 watts using a Yamaha RX-A4A.

Would it be better to use a Denon AVC-X4700H ?

Or is there a better option altogether for a 5.1 setup of SVS Prime Pinnacles?


The Yamaha looks like this:

AV ReceiverYamaha RX-A4A
Amplifier SectionChannel
Rated Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven)135 W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven)110 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
Maximum Effective Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven)165 W (8 ohms, 10% THD)



The second option was the Denon below:

Denon AVC-X4700H

(8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive)125 W
(6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive)165 W
(6 ohm, 1 kHz, 1% 1ch Drive)200 W


Which is the best options for the four Pinnacle Towers?

Or is there a better option like a Marantz or something or do I need more/less total amp watts ?

Kind regards from Gregory
If those specs are right, these receivers are about as powerful as each other. There is no significant difference. If you want even noticeable difference at all, you need to get an outboard amplifier that at least doubles the stated power specs of the AVRs that you are considering.
 
B

Bentley

Enthusiast
If those specs are right, these receivers are about as powerful as each other. There is no significant difference. If you want even noticeable difference at all, you need to get an outboard amplifier that at least doubles the stated power specs of the AVRs that you are considering.
ok thanks
 
A

adrianconst

Enthusiast
When SVS released their Prime speaker series, Audioholics reviewed the big dog of that set, the Prime Tower, and we quite liked what SVS had produced at the top of that speaker series. It was a not-insubstantial speaker as a three-way tower with two 6.5” woofers, a 4.5” mid-range, and a 1” dome tweeter. For most people, a design like that would pack more punch than they would ever normally use. Yet here, four years later, SVS has launched an even more powerful line-topping speaker for the Prime series, in the aptly-named Prime Pinnacle tower. Along with being more powerful than the Prime Tower, it is also quite a bit more expensive. What compelled SVS to produce an even more potent tower speaker to lead the Prime series? That is the question we will attempt to answer today in our review.

READ: SVS Prime Pinnacle Tower Speaker Review

Hi,
How would you compare the prime pinnacles and the prime center against D17s and D5c? Are the Demands in a different league?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Hi,
How would you compare the prime pinnacles and the prime center against D17s and D5c? Are the Demands in a different league?
The Demand series is a more neutral loudspeaker, or, to put it another way, more accurate. The build quality is also a step above. Not surprising since the original MSRP was higher. I think the Prime center would have an advantage as a three-way center against the MTM Demand center. I would say if you are prioritizing a home theater with a wide 'sweet spot,' get the Prime system for that reason, but if you are prioritizing two-channel listening or home theater with an emphasis on a single listening position, go for the Demand speakers.
 
A

adrianconst

Enthusiast
The Demand series is a more neutral loudspeaker, or, to put it another way, more accurate. The build quality is also a step above. Not surprising since the original MSRP was higher. I think the Prime center would have an advantage as a three-way center against the MTM Demand center. I would say if you are prioritizing a home theater with a wide 'sweet spot,' get the Prime system for that reason, but if you are prioritizing two-channel listening or home theater with an emphasis on a single listening position, go for the Demand speakers.
Do you think the Demand series is somewhat similar to the Polk Reserve series? I'm asking because Crutchfield have a compare tool where I can get an idea how various speakers sound like, using my headphones. They don't have the Demand series for sale anymore, so I can't listen to them, but they still have the Reserve series.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Do you think the Demand series is somewhat similar to the Polk Reserve series? I'm asking because Crutchfield have a compare tool where I can get an idea how various speakers sound like, using my headphones. They don't have the Demand series for sale anymore, so I can't listen to them, but they still have the Reserve series.
There will certainly be similarities. I think that many of the same people were involved with the development of both speakers.
 
A

adrianconst

Enthusiast
There will certainly be similarities. I think that many of the same people were involved with the development of both speakers.
If you were to choose between the D17s and the Polk R700s, putting the looks aside and assuming the same price, which ones would you pick to be used in a HT with subwoofer?

BTW, I'm thinking to drop the center speaker since I'm interested only in a central listening position, so the quality of the centers associated with these towers doesn't matter.
 
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M

Mr. Inspector

Audiophyte
Well, you certainly liked these speakers. How ever the question has to be asked. "Could these speakers be better for the money?"

Which leads me to ask the questions. How much influence do marketers have over design choice? The next is how do companies spend their research and development dollars?

So lets look at the concept. Marketers, we must have a three way. The public think its better. Well is it? Next we need three bass drivers that looks more cool than two. Next lets have lots of ports.
Lets take the last two requests first. First off the three chambers and ports. There really is only one optimal tuning for a given woofer. So one is correct and the others have a degree of miss alignment. So we assume one woofer is loaded optimally. The bottom enclosure as it is larger in the picture must be the extended bass alignment.
This has a lower F3 at the expense of raised Q. The other would be the high output alignment. The tell tale evidence of that is the ripple around 70 Hz, as that is the calling card of these alignments.

The three drivers has increased power handing, but lowered impedance which for the HT crowd will embarrass some receivers, especially more recent models.
So one has to ask the question, would we be better off with two drivers with more robust motor system and suspension. I would give that a probably yes.

Now we get to the choice of a three way design. A 300 Hz crossover on the lower end is pushing your luck. However what is a bigger problem is the complication of a three way worth it when it has to be crossed right in the speech discrimination band at 2.1 KHz. At the same time the crossover spread is not quite 3 octaves. In your measurements you can see some degree of band pass gain remaining as you would expect given the 12 db slopes.

So my contention the downsides and expense of a three way design here has not been justified. It is perfectly possible to build 6.5 inch drivers with bandwidths that allow crossover in the 2.5 to 4 KHz range. Here we have a mid driver that crosses at 2.1 KHz.

So my contention is that money could have been saved with two bass drivers and no mid. The saved money could have been put into better drivers and less better quality components in a simpler crossover. I think that would have made a speaker you would have liked better.

Now lets get to the laid back character, and the falling HF response. I agree a much more forgivable fault than a rising response, but a fault none the less. Now this fault probably seems strange to those who have wrestled with these problems. However it is not strange at all. I suspect that the midrange cone is breaking up badly out of band. This has meant the tweeter has had to be overly attenuated to prevent a worse problem, a rise in output centered around 3 KHz. I suspect given their drivers they made the optimal listening balance.

So again it makes the case for putting money into better quality drivers.

So what of three ways. There really is not much point unless the mid driver is pretty powerful and has a wide pass band. There is a lot of power in the midband. Unless the midband driver has a bandwidth to allow crossover at least form somewhere in the 400 to 500 Hz range on the bottom end and at least 3.5 Hz then you are better off with a two way design How to thin acrylic paint for airbrushing . In my experience for most available drivers two mids and not one are really required for decent power band in that width.

So yes, we have a speaker you like, but I have the strong hunch that you would have liked a well executed simpler design with better components better.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
If you were to choose between the D17s and the Polk R700s, putting the looks aside and assuming the same price, which ones would you pick to be used in a HT with subwoofer?

BTW, I'm thinking to drop the center speaker since I'm interested only in a central listening position, so the quality of the centers associated with these towers doesn't matter.
Close call, but I would probably go with the R700s. They do so much right.
 
A

adrianconst

Enthusiast
Close call, but I would probably go with the R700s. They do so much right.
This is the position of one of my Yamaha towers. Not ideal, pretty close to a window. If I get the D17 or the R700, is one or the other more prone to give me weird bass reflections being so close to the window (the other tower is placed in a similar location)? As I said before, I have a sub and probably I'll use a crossover around 80 Hz and I'll set the speakers to small.

20240302_064841.jpg


To give you an idea about the location, this is an RWE measurement of this tower, without sub or Audissey. I used var smoothing. The speaker has one port down, on the back.

20240302_072310.jpg
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
This is the position of one of my Yamaha towers. Not ideal, pretty close to a window. If I get the D17 or the R700, is one or the other more prone to give me weird bass reflections being so close to the window (the other tower is placed in a similar location)? As I said before, I have a sub and probably I'll use a crossover around 80 Hz and I'll set the speakers to small.

View attachment 66195

To give you an idea about the location, this is an RWE measurement of this tower, without sub or Audissey. I used var smoothing. The speaker has one port down, on the back.

View attachment 66196
I don't think these towers will fix those bass problems, but I don't think they will make them worse either. The locations of the ports won't matter too much here. The distance of any acoustic emission in low frequencies will cause these problems. You out to use the towers full -range in addition to a subwoofer in order to smooth out the bass response.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I don’t much about this thread at all. But, this would drive my audiOCD crazy. Not even sure there would be any diffraction but my tiny little brain is twitching at the thought. lol
 
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