SVS PB13-ULTRA and Rythmik FV15HP

[Bone-Head]

Is there anybody out there that has actually had or heard both of these speakers? I want to know what difference there is from the obvious $450 price between the two. What selling point is there for me to choose the more expensive SVS? Does one hit harder than the other? I don’t mind spending the extra cash if I can hear & feel the difference. I'm kinda bouncing around between the ULTRA's and the Rythmik.

Sorry for probably beating a dead horse with this post, but I am new to this

 

[kramskoi]

Is there anybody out there that has actually had or heard both of these speakers? I want to know what difference there is from the obvious $450 price between the two. What selling point is there for me to choose the more expensive SVS? Does one hit harder than the other? I don’t mind spending the extra cash if I can hear & feel the difference. I'm kinda bouncing around between the ULTRA's and the Rythmik.

Sorry for probably beating a dead horse with this post, but I am new to this

The key difference is distortion my friend. The SVS won't play as low as the FV15HP in 12Hz tune but it will be much cleaner from 16 - 30 Hz, and about 1 dB louder at 20Hz, but that is pretty much a rub. The problem as I see it with the FV15HP is that it sacrifices what you can hear for what you can't and looking at distortion vs output, I think it is a shaky compromise. 2nd order distortion is quite high by comparison to the SVS Ultra between 20 and 30 Hz. At low levels the difference won't be so noticeable but if both of these subs were A-B'd at spirited levels, the difference might become apparent in that 20 - 30Hz audible range.

The only place the FV15HP will have an advantage is from 12 - 15Hz...that is about it...chalk up the difference to the lower tune of the HP. The stellar 13.5" Ultra driver is what you are paying for. It gives up Sd but still performs better than the HP driver from 16Hz on up. In fairness, part of that is the compromise that is made with the HP for a lower tune.

I would say if you plan on pushing your sub, as most are apt to do when spending so much, the Ultra might be a better option. If a bit more extension is your thing then the HP, but it won't be as clean in the audible range. As far as impact, I expect they will both deliver a similar sound signature (judging by the FR), but at and above reference, the SVS is to be preferred. At the 105dB level sweep, the HP is already at 10 - 14% THD from 20 - 25Hz, with 110 and 115dB sweeps a no go. However, the Ultra never breaks 14% even at the 115dB sweep. That is a marked advantage in distortion headroom for a single subwoofer system.

 

[shadyJ]

I think the Rythmik's problem is due more to its smaller ports rather than driver. Still, it wouldn't be a problem unless you were really pushing the sub. On a tight budget I would go with the Rythmik, or if you are after extension. If budget isn't as much of a consideration it's kind of a coin toss, both subs have their advantages. However for the same price as a PB13 Ultra you can get two Hsu VTF15hs, which would have a big advantage over a single sub setup with respect to room acoustics and may have a more readily perceptible advantage.

 

[billy p]

^^^Here you go again....please stick to what the OP is seeking. You gave your explanation on the probable causes of minor compression & THD likely due to its undersized port area ....but you just can't resist o help yourself with the temptation of recommending Hsu (dual vft15s no less) for OP....nice...you're like clockwork...always on time. In fact he may even consider exploring that option but until he does...stick to the matter at hand....

Thanks...

 

[Basshead81]

Also note 2nd order harmonics are the least offensive to the ear. The only thing I would be worried about with the FV15HP is port chuffing in 1 port. From what I see the FV15HP has more headroom above 30hz as well. Imo the Rythmik is the better bang fod the buck sub, but the Ultra is highly regarded. I will say Brian671who is a member at AVS had both before going DIY and preferred the Ultra.

 

[shadyJ]

^^^Here you go again....please stick to what the OP is seeking. You gave your explanation on the probable causes of minor compression & THD likely due to its undersized port area ....but you just can't resist o help yourself with the temptation of recommending Hsu (dual vft15s no less) for OP....nice...you're like clockwork...always on time. In fact he may even consider exploring that option but until he does...stick to the matter at hand....

So are dual VTF15h's a poor alternative to a single FV15HP or PB13 Ultra? You won't find many guys who understand bass acoustics who will agree with you on this point.

 

[Basshead81]

So are dual VTF15h's a poor alternative to a single FV15HP or PB13 Ultra? You won't find many guys who understand bass acoustics who will agree with you on this point.

No that is not what he is saying...Billy was commenting on your consistent plug-ins for HSU. I could of easily listed a couple PSA options that would work in the OP's budget, but he specifically asked about the PB13 vs FV15HP, so I refrained from going there. I will say you are much more tactful with your posting style here compared to AVS.

 

[kini]

I'll just say that the SVS is built better. Heavier cabinet, heavier driver, better warranty and IMO a better looking finish.

 

[shadyJ]

I presented an equally priced alternative which has some real advantages that the OP might not know about. I recommended the Hsu subs because they are proven good performers for the money. It is not the only brand I recommend, as you well know. The way I post here is no different from the way I post on AVSforum. If you want to turn all the threads where I recommend Hsu subs into dramas, you are going to be very busy.

 

[3db]

I'll just say that the SVS is built better. Heavier cabinet, heavier driver, better warranty and IMO a better looking finish.

How do you know its built better? Specs published by Rythmik doesn't allow for a direct comparison of weight and cabinet build to that of the SVS. Better looking is a matter of opinion.

 

[Basshead81]

I presented an equally priced alternative which has some real advantages that the OP might not know about. I recommended the Hsu subs because they are proven good performers for the money. It is not the only brand I recommend, as you well know. The way I post here is no different from the way I post on AVSforum. If you want to turn all the threads where I recommend Hsu subs into dramas, you are going to be very busy.

I was simply telling you what BillyP was saying since you were failing to correctly comprehend his post. There are plenty of good subwoofers for a good price but yet you always resort to one brand. The OP did not ask for alternatives...stay on topic and stuff like this will not happen. Next you will be bringing the psa chart and its fallacies to this thread.

 

[billy p]

ShadyJ....

Please re-read the OP...its very specific in nature at least it appears that way to me? If or when the OP comes back and asks for alternative suggestions feel free to suggest whatever Sub floats your boat...until he does..I'd suggest you keep to the matter at hand...that's not asking to much now...is it!

As for the dual vft15h advice...I seem to recall you saying that your better off going with the more accomplished & beefier driver with better overall response and simply add another down the road...a sigle VFT15H is NOT on par with either the 1510 or Ultra driver. I would simply start there based on that advice alone...I suppose that is why the OP framed the title of the thread in the manor he did.

 

[shadyJ]

Wow you guys are really incensed that I suggested dual Hsu subs as an alternative. I didn't know that would be such a touchy subject! I am so sorry if I hurt any of your feelings. Please find it in your hearts to forgive me.

 

[mdm1699]

Is there anybody out there that has actually had or heard both of these speakers? I want to know what difference there is from the obvious $450 price between the two. What selling point is there for me to choose the more expensive SVS? Does one hit harder than the other? I don’t mind spending the extra cash if I can hear & feel the difference. I'm kinda bouncing around between the ULTRA's and the Rythmik.

Sorry for probably beating a dead horse with this post, but I am new to this

There has always been the prevailing fact that 2 very good subs are better than one better sub(generally speaking). This is nothing new. I think Shady is correctly stating that you should consider dual HSU VTF-15H at the Ultra price point, or a tad more $ than the Rythmik. For the record, you did not list and concerns about space constraints. Some will tell you that a single Rythink will dig deeper. There are not many people who are willing to sacrifice dual HSU for a single Rythmik/Ultra because those lower frequencies represent a "fraction of 1%" of the listening material out there. Moreover, those lower frequencies are sometimes at the expense of mid-bass frequencies. Then there is question of whether you get useful output with a single sub at those frequencies. Shady's response is a practical one. Another option is dual PSA XV-15. It depends on which dual sub option you think offers superior quality, performance at the Ultra price point.

 

[3db]

There has always been the prevailing fact that 2 very good subs are better than one better sub(generally speaking). This is nothing new. I think Shady is correctly stating that you should consider dual HSU VTF-15H at the Ultra price point, or a tad more $ than the Rythmik. For the record, you did not list and concerns about space constraints. Some will tell you that a single Rythink will dig deeper. There are not many people who are willing to sacrifice dual HSU for a single Rythmik/Ultra because those lower frequencies represent a "fraction of 1%" of the listening material out there. Moreover, those lower frequencies are sometimes at the expense of mid-bass frequencies. Then there is question of whether you get useful output with a single sub at those frequencies. Shady's response is a practical one. Another option is dual PSA XV-15. It depends on which dual sub option you think offers superior quality, performance at the Ultra price point.

Measurements cleaned from Data-Bass, If this behaviour is indicative of the Rythmik subs in question, there is no sacrifice in mid bass performance for extension. Rythmik subs are every bit as capable as the SVS subs. One cannot go wrong with either one. SVS just has a better marketing department, something Rythmik needs to improve upon.

System Name Drivers 10Hz 12.5Hz 16Hz 20Hz 25Hz 31.5Hz 40Hz 50Hz 63Hz 80Hz 100Hz 125

FV15HP(1 port) Sing.15 - 98.5 104 108.3 111.7 115.3 117.8 118 117.9 117.8 117.6 117.2

FV15HP(2 ports) Sing.15 - 89.8 102.1 108.1 113.1 117 119.5 119.1 118.8 118.4 118.2 118.1

 

[billy p]

Wow you guys are really incensed that I suggested dual Hsu subs as an alternative. I didn't know that would be such a touchy subject! I am so sorry if I hurt any of your feelings. Please find it in your hearts to forgive me.

You have not heard the FV15hp nor the PB13u...you likely never heard dual 15Hs either...so what exactly are you doing here? I guess for an encore you'll be telling him to go DIY and post links to more subs you've never heard and only read about.

ShadyJ you might be an enigma over at AVS & elsewhere...but not here! You've done well providing some input on the 2 subs in the OP....now move along!

 

[slipperybidness]

How do you know its built better? Specs published by Rythmik doesn't allow for a direct comparison of weight and cabinet build to that of the SVS. Better looking is a matter of opinion.

I'm willing to bet that the amps in the Rythmik are more robust and offer more user configs, plus have the servo control. Those things are beasts! Also, the Rythmik has an Aluminum cone.

 

[Steve81]

How do you know its built better? Specs published by Rythmik doesn't allow for a direct comparison of weight and cabinet build

Not sure what you mean here? Even the shipping weight listed by Rythmik (130lbs) is less than the Ultra's weight alone (155lbs). FWIW Josh Ricci pegged the FV15HP at 110lbs over at data-bass, so there is a pretty big gap in that regard. Of course, weight alone isn't necessarily the best way to judge a sub, though the PB13 is built like a brick ****house (the cutout PB13 they had at CAF was pretty neat).

I'm willing to bet that the amps in the Rythmik are more robust and offer more user configs, plus have the servo control.

I don't know about that; the PB13 offers 2 channels of EQ, room compensation (basically a high pass filter for the sub adjustable by slope and frequency), as well as three tuning modes. Its also one of the few subs that offers adjustable high/low pass filters (slope & frequency) for systems that don't have their own bass management.

 

[billy p]

Not sure what you mean here? Even the shipping weight listed by Rythmik (130lbs) is less than the Ultra's weight alone (155lbs). FWIW Josh Ricci pegged the FV15HP at 110lbs over at data-bass, so there is a pretty big gap in that regard. Of course, weight alone isn't necessarily the best way to judge a sub, though the PB13 is built like a brick ****house (the cutout PB13 they had at CAF was pretty neat).


I don't know about that; the PB13 offers 2 channels of EQ, room compensation (basically a high pass filter for the sub adjustable by slope and frequency), as well as three tuning modes. Its also one of the few subs that offers adjustable high/low pass filters (slope & frequency) for systems that don't have their own bass management.

If you look and the ultra amps they appear rather simple at a glance...as you said..they offer the user a highly comprehensive & intuitive list of setting to toggle through I decided to take a pass and hit bypass...far to complicated for me.

Btw...Steve I see you're going FA...

 

[Steve81]

Btw...Steve I see you're going FA...

That's the plan Stan...err...Billy. Hopefully a pair someday, though given the cost, I'll be starting out with a single 18.0. Just have to get rid of the old sub first.