SVS PB12-Plus DSP Subwoofer Review

G

gajenn

Audioholic Intern
Kev..most on these boards are looking to improve what we have and happy to here people's opinions of how theyre equipment is working..what something may lack or be very good at..saying you'll stick with something regardless of quality seems a totally closed mindset,no offense but your post is absurd..
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Yep.. It's like sports... Your basketball team may suck, but it's your team.
That's an awful analogy. If your basketball team got moved to a different city you would no longer follow it. It is only your team because you're inherently tied to it.

OTOH with consumer electronics there's absolutely nothing tying you to Polk and there really shouldn't anything tying Gene to RBH either FWIW. You should always strive to get the best possible results your money can get you.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
You just don't get it Gene.. If your review of a product does not match what your reader's opinion of that same product, then your review of that product is wrong.
For instance, if you ever reviewed Polk Audio speakers and give it a bad rating, even if the hard number says the speakers are crap, I will personally hate you because of gave the brand I pay allegiance too a bad rating.

I'm sorry, it's just how the internet works.
I was hoping your post was tongue in cheek, and glad to see it was. the problem with the internet is we can't see the smile on your face. next time use an emoticon or follow with a "j/k".
It does kind of ruin good satire to have to point out that it is satire, but the problem is you don't have to look far to find posts every bit as ridiculous as yours that were sincere! Then there is the matter that there is too much truth to your post!;)
 
ntrain42

ntrain42

Junior Audioholic
I am the one responsible for any inconsistancies you note. Gene tries to get me to conform, but I am not much of a conformist frankly. Sorry to dissapoint you. The intent of my article was not consistency but rather fidelity to the standards and metrics presented in the new standard written in part by one of our industry greats, Don Keele, who was kind enough to share his program, something he had spent several years of his life in development with me for free. If you need consistency, better compare the authors first, and the publishers second.... Sorry I dissapointed you with the review.
There is a reason why Gene probably gets you to conform, and thats so that the people reading the reviews can do direct comparisons with other subs that are also reviewed and measured. If there is no standard playing field, then the reviews in many ways become pointless.

Which brings me to another point on measurements and how they are done specifically. Measuring at the point of driver compression(max RMS roughly) in itself can be pointless in many ways too, because.

A. Subs tend to distort and behave in a non linear fashion when driven to full "RMS" or slightly below/above
B. The amount of distortion at that same point will be different from sub to sub as each sub will soft clip differently depending on design and intended use.
C. Under normal use a sub is not(it shouldnt be anyway) going to always be playing full duty cycle for any length of time at the max rms test point. Typical use a sub will/should only be playing a few watts rms with quick instant dynamics that hit at or near RMS at MOST if set up correctly and sized properly for a given room and volume tastes per user.

I think giving Max SPL measurements are fine and dandy to gauge max DYNAMIC output, but a properly sized sub(or subs) for your setup requirements should never even approach hitting the units max rms in a continous fashion when all is said and done. And measurements like order harmonic distortion,group delay,linear response etc should be done well below max rms(-3 to -6db at the very least from where the driver starts to compress resulting in response that becomes non linear).

Just my 2 cents.
 
ntrain42

ntrain42

Junior Audioholic
Yep.. It's like sports... Your basketball team may suck, but it's your team.
IMO thats not the right way to look at products for your own personal use. I want my dollar to get me the best equipment possible. I could care less what brand its by.
Brand loyalty is great and I do support that idea(if it aint broke dont fix it mentality), but if a specific manufacturer makes a "dud" product that is poor, then why waste money on it?
 
S

ShaunH

Audioholic Intern
I just wanted to comment on the reviews cons about the finish. I have to agree with him.

I recently asked for a sample of the American Cherry and Rosenut finish from SVS. Here is Jack Gilvey's (SVS Director of Customer Service) description of the two finishes. This is from an email conversation we had.

Rosenut is actually walnut veneer that is stained and finished in a satin top coat. Rosenut was popular but really bridged the gap between cherry and rosewood. It had a more restrained and less garish dark grain pattern to it than actual rosewood, but coloring to match the gamut of cherry users. Both it and our new Cherry are hardwoods with very similar overall color and hue but the American Cherry is American veneer and lets more of the real wood texture transmit thru. The grain is not fully filled in and is unmistakably "real wood". The rosenut IS fully "filled" with no visible texture and a smooth top coat.

Jack Gilvey
The problem is American Cherry looks rather un cherry like. Most of are accustomed to a red or orange red/ cherry stain. American cherry has little red and more dark orange but no where near what most cherry would look like. Frankly I have a hard time telling its cherry. Its rather dark. Also due to the fact the grain is left in tact and not filled in it looks and feels a little odd. Granted this is looking close but its still makes the product look a little less polished.

Rosenut on the other hand is lovely. Deep red, with a nice grain that's fully fillies in and a nice satin top coat. I'm really sad to see SVS discontinue to this finish. It wouldn't be so bad if they brought true Rosewood back but I don't' see that happening.

Granted I tend to prefer to grain to show well but with no texture when you touch it.

So it seems if I ever end up buying and SVS product with a veneer option. It looks like it be textured black or gloss black for me. :( Which is sad because Rosenut is truly a lovely finish.

To SVS get a new cherry veneer and please bring back Rosenut / Rosewood.
 
B

bikdav

Senior Audioholic
Stunning Review

I wish that I could have heard these subwoofers before hand. Despite the issues that you brought up about some of them, I wouldn't be surprised if any one of these subs would blow away anything that I've ever heard or built. Reading your review re-enforced my attitude that there is no substitute for size _ BIG IN SIZE WINS.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
huh?

So you're more interested in paying allegance to absolute garbage than searching for excellence?
Ahhhh I think he was going for sarcasm in that post...

And I think he did a fine job.... :D
 
N

Noobalert

Audiophyte
I take it the MSRP: $ 1199 review price was with out shipping?
Its $1349 now, the sealed SB13-Plus is the only boxed sub they offer at $1199 that i could find on there website.
 
mdanderson

mdanderson

Audioholic Intern
Thanks for the detailed reviewed of the PB12-plus. I have been talking to Jack Gilvey at SVS and he has recommended this sub for my room size(2700cf) and tastes which are 50/50 HT and music. I currently have the SVS 20-39PCi which I have had since 2002 and I am trying to sell it at this time.

I see that it is no longer in cherry finish but black oak looks great. The PEQ function looks nice but using something like REW may be a little over my head. I may just use a test tone program like NCH and trying plotting the graph myself.
 
timoteo

timoteo

Audioholic General
A $45 RadioShack SPL meter & test tone disc (from realtraps.com) can give you a good idea of your room response. You will want to use the RS spl-meter compinsation chart for frequencies below 31.5hz. If your willing to take the time its a very decent option without having to learn a program. You can also print up blank dB-vs.-Hz chart to plot your measurements.

Will it be as accurate as say an Omni mic & REW? Not quite but you will be able to see what peaks you need to EQ down. You WILL hear an audible improvement if there is room for improvement!! I did this & feel i got great results!!
 
mdanderson

mdanderson

Audioholic Intern
A $45 RadioShack SPL meter & test tone disc (from realtraps.com) can give you a good idea of your room response. You will want to use the RS spl-meter compinsation chart for frequencies below 31.5hz. If your willing to take the time its a very decent option without having to learn a program. You can also print up blank dB-vs.-Hz chart to plot your measurements.

Will it be as accurate as say an Omni mic & REW? Not quite but you will be able to see what peaks you need to EQ down. You WILL hear an audible improvement if there is room for improvement!! I did this & feel i got great results!!
Thanks timoteo for the info and tips for good bass response. I have had a RS analog spl meter for quite some time now and I have used it to set up my speakers and current sub using the AIX calibration disc that Oppo sent me after I purchased the BDP-93.

Maybe the realtraps disc would be better for the sub test tones than the AIX. I may try that. Thanks again for the help. By the way, how do you compensate for the RS spl meter? For example, if the meter reads 75db when playing a 25Hz tone, do you read that as actually 80db? Do you had to the reading to get the actual db. Thanks.
 
mdanderson

mdanderson

Audioholic Intern
A $45 RadioShack SPL meter & test tone disc (from realtraps.com) can give you a good idea of your room response. You will want to use the RS spl-meter compinsation chart for frequencies below 31.5hz. If your willing to take the time its a very decent option without having to learn a program. You can also print up blank dB-vs.-Hz chart to plot your measurements.

Will it be as accurate as say an Omni mic & REW? Not quite but you will be able to see what peaks you need to EQ down. You WILL hear an audible improvement if there is room for improvement!! I did this & feel i got great results!!
I have been doing a lot of reading recently on how to use REW so I feel more comfortable in giving it a go. I just sold my SVS 20-39PCi and ordered a new SVS PB12 plus.

I did end up using the realtraps test cd and discovered a jump of about 10db between 30 and 50Hz on my old sub. I wonder if the new sub I ordered will have the same response? If I have trouble getting REW to work, I know I can always use the realtraps cd. Thanks again,
 
O

ooobbbccc

Audiophyte
Is this sub Bassaholics certified "large" or ''Extreme"?
 
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