SVS PB12 NSD or Outlaw LFM-EX

[nutshellml]

Good afternoon, I have read some older posts about comparing the PB12NSD and the LFM-EX, but haven't heard any recent debate. All things equal, equally movies and music use. I would like to hear some opinions on which sub to go with. Unfortuantley, I can't wait for B stock or a sale so I'm looking at about $730 for the PB12 shipped and $740 for the Outlaw shipped. Unfortuantley Outlaw wont budge on price. What do you guys think? Or if there's a bettter option, I'm all ears. Thanks!

 

[Steve81]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/85090-best-subwoofer-under-$500-4.html#post972079

 

[nutshellml]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/85090-best-subwoofer-under-$500-4.html#post972079

Thanks, missed that part on first read.

 

[shadyJ]

Neither. The Hsu vtf3 is on sale with a $50 discount, $750 shipped. More features and better deep bass too. It's basically an improved version of the Outlaw.

 

[pddufrene]

I can tell you what the general consciences is: The Outlaw! I'm the one that started the other thread, I still haven't made up my mind but due to certain restrictions by my wife. Lol I'm leaning towards the SVS PB-12NSD OR twin PB-1000's

 

[GFOViedo]

If you are going to spend $750 on a sub, mind as well spend $50 dollars more and buy a PSA-XV15.

 

[nutshellml]

If you are going to spend $750 on a sub, mind as well spend $50 dollars more and buy a PSA-XV15.

Well I can get the PB 12NSD for $730 shipped so it would be another $70, is that worth it? Seems as if there's always something better for a little more, thoughts?

 

[pddufrene]

There's always gonna be something better for a little more, most of the time a little more is in $50-$100 increments. I wish u luck! These guys on here know there stuff though so u came to the right spot.

 

[Steve81]

it would be another $70, is that worth it?

Depends on how loud you like to listen and how big your room is. Even then, there are tradeoffs on the XV15 vs the PB12-NSD.

 

[padgman1]

^^^ Steve, what tradeoffs are there? I understand the PSA XV15 will produce more output at almost all levels, and I also know the SVS PB12-NSD has a more linear FQ curve and also has less distortion at almost all levels, but I have also read that the XV15's distortion is in lower level harmonics which are either not heard much or are not unpleasant to hear ( another person's quote, maybe Josh Ricci). I am very interested in either sub to add to my ~2400 sq ft space open to kitchen. I will probably NOT be listening at reference levels. Most of the posters on threads on this forum and others prefer the XV15.......I'm torn ( as is the OP in this thread concerning similar subs).
Can you explain more about these tradeoffs?

 

[Steve81]

Can you explain more about these tradeoffs?

I think you've covered them for the most part. The PB12 is simply an extremely well behaved sub, both in terms of linearity and distortion, all the way up to its limits. The XV15 is more powerful, particularly above 25Hz, but it isn't perfect by any stretch.

As one point of comparison, look at the 105dB power compression sweep for both the XV15 and the PB12-NSD. On the PB12 from 25Hz on up, you're looking at a window of +0/-1.5dB and <5% THD. On the XV15 you've got a window of +1.5/-3dB and you're exceeding 10% THD. For those keeping track, 105dB @ 2m ground plane roughly equates to 111dB @ 4m, corner loaded, which is 12dB shy of the theoretical max peak at full reference level (i.e. 115dB LFE peak + redirected bass from 5 other channels), which is nothing to sneeze at.

Now granted, the XV15 can keep delivering more output, but the quality of its performance progressively gets worse. Conversely, the PB12 doesn't have much more to give, but if you can look beyond max output for the dollar, you can understand why it's still a top notch subwoofer.

 

[Tom V.]

^^^ Steve, what tradeoffs are there? I understand the PSA XV15 will produce more output at almost all levels, and I also know the SVS PB12-NSD has a more linear FQ curve and also has less distortion at almost all levels, but I have also read that the XV15's distortion is in lower level harmonics which are either not heard much or are not unpleasant to hear ( another person's quote, maybe Josh Ricci). I am very interested in either sub to add to my ~2400 sq ft space open to kitchen. I will probably NOT be listening at reference levels. Most of the posters on threads on this forum and others prefer the XV15.......I'm torn ( as is the OP in this thread concerning similar subs).
Can you explain more about these tradeoffs?

Hi padgman, why not order both and compare them for yourself in your own home? If you decide to return the XV15 we'll take care of the shipping for you so there's no risk. We've had a few XV15 owners who have owned both the subs you are considering. If you want to see one opinion you can check here(start on post 809). Official Power Sound Audio Thread. - Page 41 - Blu-ray Forum Thanks,

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

 

[Steve81]

If you decide to return the XV15 we'll take care of the shipping for you so there's no risk.

I believe SVS is also offering the same deal at the moment, so it could be a fun experiment.

 

[trnqk7]

I have the Outlaw and own the PC12-NSD, so it's not exactly the same, but fairly close. In my subjective opinion, those two subs are very very similar. I think the SVS went a bit deeper maybe, but both played with relative authority down deep. The Outlaw doesn't sound quite as boomy to my ear (although it's hard to characterize the SVS as boomy b/c it's not really). I think you would be happy with either option-it's going to come down to looks and size in my opinion unless one goes on sale soon. I've been very satisfied with both subs. I currently use the Outlaw b/c of WAF, she prefers the black shiny box over the cylinder sub. The SVS is currently working it's magic at my parent's house. Both homes have an open floor plan with about 1300 sq ft op space on the floor they are located. We experience good bass in both homes, slam that is felt and some pressurization. Not nearly what could be gotten with multiple subs or smaller rooms though. But unless insane levels are your goal, these will provide more output than 99% of people are used to.

 

[padgman1]

Tom V and Steve, I just might have to do that.......

 

[nutshellml]

I think you've covered them for the most part. The PB12 is simply an extremely well behaved sub, both in terms of linearity and distortion, all the way up to its limits. The XV15 is more powerful, particularly above 25Hz, but it isn't perfect by any stretch.

As one point of comparison, look at the 105dB power compression sweep for both the XV15 and the PB12-NSD. On the PB12 from 25Hz on up, you're looking at a window of +0/-1.5dB and <5% THD. On the XV15 you've got a window of +1.5/-3dB and you're exceeding 10% THD. For those keeping track, 105dB @ 2m ground plane roughly equates to 111dB @ 4m, corner loaded, which is 12dB shy of the theoretical max peak at full reference level (i.e. 115dB LFE peak + redirected bass from 5 other channels), which is nothing to sneeze at.

Now granted, the XV15 can keep delivering more output, but the quality of its performance progressively gets worse. Conversely, the PB12 doesn't have much more to give, but if you can look beyond max output for the dollar, you can understand why it's still a top notch subwoofer.

So after doing alot of research and reading reviews, and going up from my original 500-600 budget, I decided I am going to go with the Power Sound Audio XV15. Looking forward to receiving it and opening my ears to an entire new listening level...

I thank everyone for their help and support!

 

[pddufrene]

Could you let us know what u think when u finally get it? Some of us would like to hear one more opinion

 

[hemingray]

I can tell you what the general consciences is: The Outlaw! I'm the one that started the other thread, I still haven't made up my mind but due to certain restrictions by my wife. Lol I'm leaning towards the SVS PB-12NSD OR twin PB-1000's

I'm guessing your wife is thinking that by holding out, sooner or later you'll give up on this expensive box!

 

[pddufrene]

I'm guessing your wife is thinking that by holding out, sooner or later you'll give up on this expensive box!

Lol, I think that might be what she's attempting to do. When I told her today I wanted her opinion on which one I should get she looked shocked like if she thought I forgot about it already. Suprise! That isn't gonna happen! Lol I'm waiting on her impressions at this point but I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the PSA XV15. So I'm hoping she says get what u want I don't care.

 

[rnatalli]

In the past, Outlaw subs always sounded more musical than their SVS counterparts like the PC12. Not so to my ear anymore with the newer SVS subs. I also appreciate how SVS subs are virtually indestructible with the new amplifiers. I've managed to bottom out HSU, Outlaw, and others, but not the newer SVS subs. They do sacrifice a hair in output in order to pull this off, but I'm fine with this conservative approach. Rythmik also prove difficult to bottom out with their Servo and robust drivers and sound fabulous. I don't have any experience with the newer PSA subs so can't comment.