SVS PB-4000 vs SVS SB 16 ultra? Measurement questions

[Landmonster]

Hi guys.

This is an interesting question. It turns out I could fit 2 of either of these subs in my room.

1. Both come in Piano Black finish, and
2. Both would roughly fit in the same space
3. Both are the same price for 2.

The obvious trade-off is this: SB 16 grants you a more powerful amp, bigger driver, and bigger woofer... but no porting.

I ASSUMED that the sealed sub would easily dominate, right?
Because: The SB-16 is from the top-tier line at SVS, and it's also sealed... so it has 2 attributes, which according to legend, would supposedly make it sound cleaner than a lower level of ported sub.

My question is this: For you guys that have heard these same subs in a room, how would they compare in the real world? With regards to purest sound quality and lowest distortion, which of these subs would win?

The measurements from Audioholics below show the opposite:

The PB-4000 actually has lower distortion in the low frequencies.

• At 40hz, it hs 6.8% distortion.... vs 40hz on the SB 16 has over 12% distortion.
• at 31.5hz, it has 7% distortion... .... vs 40hz on the SB 16 has over 13% distortion.
• At 25 and below.. .same story.

The only time the SB 16 seems to come out ahead is 50hz and above.

From these charts, it seems the PB-4000 is both the clear winner in both output AND distortion at the typical level a sub would be used.

How is this possible? Are these measurements reliable?

 

[Landmonster]

These charts were both made by James Larson at Audioholics in 2018 and 2017. I am assuming he is Shady J? or at least a representative of the forum.

SVS PB-4000 Ported Subwoofer Review

The SVS PB-4000 is the latest evolution of a powerful subwoofer design that has stood the test of time. Read our in-depth review with measurements to see how SVS improved on their classic design.

www.audioholics.com

SVS SB16-Ultra Sealed Subwoofer Review

Read our full review of the SVS SB16-Ultra, a sealed 16" Sub and 1,500 watt amplifier. We were impressed with its unsealed counterpart the PB16-Ultra. But how did the SB-16-Ultra fair? Read on.

www.audioholics.com

 

[shadyJ]

I would go with the PB-4000. It doesn't give up much performance to the SB16-Ultra. The SB16-Ultra is a very good sub for the size, in fact one of the best for the size in deep bass. However, ports are such a deep bass advantage. The SB16-Ultra is a great sub when you can't accommodate a larger sub, but if you can. the PB-4000 is an overall stronger performer.

 

[mazersteven]

PB-4000 Ported my vote

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

PB4k all day.
Your assumption of sealed superiority is just not true. Also, even IF you wanted to run the pb4k in sealed mode, it would likely be better than the sbultra due to the larger enclosure offering more sensitivity and lower tuning.
Pb4 wins...

 

[Landmonster]

PB4k all day.
Your assumption of sealed superiority is just not true. Also, even IF you wanted to run the pb4k in sealed mode, it would likely be better than the sbultra due to the larger enclosure offering more sensitivity and lower tuning.
Pb4 wins...

Why the hell does anyone buy a sealed* sub then? I truly don't get it.

It has more distortion than the ported version and less output

 

[Landmonster]

I would go with the PB-4000. It doesn't give up much performance to the SB16-Ultra. The SB16-Ultra is a very good sub for the size, in fact one of the best for the size in deep bass. However, ports are such a deep bass advantage. The SB16-Ultra is a great sub when you can't accommodate a larger sub, but if you can. the PB-4000 is an overall stronger performer.

For future upgrade path....

Would it be smarter to integrate more PB-4000s in the same room, or add something larger, like a PB-16 ultra?

Would the PB 16s overshadow or have a different tonality mixed the PB 4000?

I cannot really fit the PB16 into my current space. I could fit the PB-4000 though.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Why the hell does anyone buy a sealed* sub then? I truly don't get it.

It has more distortion than the ported version and less output

1) WAF
2)space
3)don’t know better
4) old wives tales about sealed/ported
5) WAF and no balls!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

For future upgrade path....

Would it be smarter to integrate more PB-4000s in the same room, or add something larger, like a PB-16 ultra?

Would the PB 16s overshadow or have a different tonality mixed the PB 4000?

I cannot really fit the PB16 into my current space. I could fit the PB-4000 though.

Can’t answer for shady, but would just add. Subs don’t really have “tonality” in the same way a speaker does. But the problem here is the phase response of the driver/port/enclosure combination. So especially if you’re adding more pb4k’s, headroom won’t be a problem, as it’s almost as good as the 16. So I would say the 16 wouldn’t really overshadow or overpower etc. the problem will be integrating subs with different phase responses. In short, they’ll have the potential to cancel out, more than add to.
So, I would add more pb4k’s as needed vs a pb16.

 

[Landmonster]

Hmm. The main advantage of the SB-16 is that it takes up alot less floor space I guess. It is unfortunate it actually has more distortion than the ported models.

My biggest limitation right now is floor space.


One sub I had never considered was the PC-4000. I am skeptical about its design, and the fact that there are no measurements about it. It would definitely fit easily.

 

[ryanosaur]

PC 4000 will perform almost identical to the PB4000. I'm a big fan of the cylinders.

I agree that the PB/PC4000 will be the better option than any sealed subs, especially given your admission that you have a significant amount of open room volume that the Subs will be exposed to.
Cabin gain is a big benefit with sealed Subs, but that seems to start going away around 3000'3 and above... and you made it sound like you are well beyond that limit.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hmm. The main advantage of the SB-16 is that it takes up alot less floor space I guess. It is unfortunate it actually has more distortion than the ported models.

My biggest limitation right now is floor space.


One sub I had never considered was the PC-4000. I am skeptical about its design, and the fact that there are no measurements about it. It would definitely fit easily.

PC’s are a great choice and perform exactly as the boxed versions. If anything I recall half a db better extension. Big deal, I know. Still...
In any case 2/3 of my subs are pc12pluses and they are a great design. They look unique , take up less floor space and are easy to move.

 

[shadyJ]

For future upgrade path....

Would it be smarter to integrate more PB-4000s in the same room, or add something larger, like a PB-16 ultra?

Would the PB 16s overshadow or have a different tonality mixed the PB 4000?

I cannot really fit the PB16 into my current space. I could fit the PB-4000 though.

The PB16-Ultra would blend in pretty well with the PB-4000. They have the same tuning points, and the PB-4000 is strictly limited from producing much distortion, so when it hits its limits, it just stops getting louder instead of contributing a lot of distortion.

 

[fast fred]

The PB16-Ultra would blend in pretty well with the PB-4000. They have the same tuning points, and the PB-4000 is strictly limited from producing much distortion, so when it hits its limits, it just stops getting louder instead of contributing a lot of distortion.

Sorry to revive an old thread but would the PB16 Ultra offer lots more than the PB4000 or is it marginal in a room such as mine here - see image - I have everything else in the room as Ultra setup so would be nice I guess to match everything BUT if its only a minor upgrade than I will save my poor back!!

 

[ryanosaur]

Sorry to revive an old thread but would the PB16 Ultra offer lots more than the PB4000 or is it marginal in a room such as mine here - see image - I have everything else in the room as Ultra setup so would be nice I guess to match everything BUT if its only a minor upgrade than I will save my poor back!!

I don’t really understand your fixation on everything being Ultra. All of SVS’ gear is pretty consistently good, and designed to match up even between the Prime and a ultra lines.
Please don’t misunderstand, it is your system after all, and you should do what you want. My opinion is you are just focusing on labels and expecting that matching labels will improve your sound.
Those PB 4000s are high quality machines. The only major difference is the size of the driver and therefore potential output SPL at lower frequencies and with lower distortion levels.
You should look at the reviews and look for the CEA-2010 Burst Tests to see the differences in what they can deliver.
If I recall, your room isn’t crazy large, and a gargantuan sub, or two, won’t make a huge difference.
More than anything, freeing yourself to properly set up your room will have a much bigger impact on sound quality than just supersizing your Subs. If even one of your Subs or speakers is in a poor spot, or your LP, not even the most expensive speakers in the world, or a 21” Devastator Sub, can compensate for improper positioning.
Again, it is your system, your ducats. You do what you want, but based on everything you’ve posted thus far, taking time to maximize what you have will likely yield significant improvement over just matching a brand’s label.

 

[fast fred]

gotcha

 

[Landmonster]

Monkeywrench:

How about a JTR capitvator 2400 instead of either of these 2? Noticable upgrade, or waste of money?

 

[shadyJ]

Sorry to revive an old thread but would the PB16 Ultra offer lots more than the PB4000 or is it marginal in a room such as mine here - see image - I have everything else in the room as Ultra setup so would be nice I guess to match everything BUT if its only a minor upgrade than I will save my poor back!!

If I recall correctly, the PB16 would mostly offer more deep bass from 16Hz to 40Hz. If you are interested in more headroom in that range, you would get it from the PB16. Maybe a perceptual doubling of deep bass headroom? But not so much anywhere else.

 

[fast fred]

If I recall correctly, the PB16 would mostly offer more deep bass from 16Hz to 40Hz. If you are interested in more headroom in that range, you would get it from the PB16. Maybe a perceptual doubling of deep bass headroom? But not so much anywhere else.

Ok thanks for the helpful feedback, Cheers

 

[shadyJ]

Monkeywrench:

How about a JTR capitvator 2400 instead of either of these 2? Noticable upgrade, or waste of money?

The Captivator 2400 would have deeper extension and more mid-bass headroom. The PB-4000 and PB16 already dig so deep that I think the lower extension wouldn't make that big of a difference but the headroom above 40Hz would make a difference if you like to listen at loud levels.