SVS Art Speaker Line

[Patrukas777]

http://svsound.com/Marketing/SVS_ASL&800HCES11WEB.PDF

What do you guys think. I think should they perform well, then they have a lot of potential.

 

[jostenmeat]

Great idea. Would go perfectly hand in hand with the GIK art panels too.

 

[Patrukas777]

Great idea. Would go perfectly hand in hand with the GIK art panels too.

Totally agree 100%

 

[rnatalli]

They announced this last year, but the speakers never made it out. Hopefully they will this year.

 

[Patrukas777]

They announced this last year, but the speakers never made it out. Hopefully they will this year.

This is under their products page, so I imagine they'll be out anytime now.

 

[digicidal]

Very cool... and in desperate need of a complete review post-install with many, many pictures!

 

[krzywica]

I like this....although I feel this could be done with any in wall speaker faily easily.

 

[digicidal]

I like this....although I feel this could be done with any in wall speaker faily easily.

Of course. However, could and is are often distant cousins.

I've seen some DIY solutions that were similar to this over the years, but nothing as turnkey and flexible. Despite it having absolutely nothing to do with the sound - I particularly like the magnetic art-panels design... because we all know there are often changes that must be addressed quickly (like she wants to get a new couch and curtains) and having the ability to get those out of the way quickly leads to more time to sit down and listen to music.

 

[InTheIndustry]

This has been around several years....

www.Artcoustic.com

They are identical in concept. Can't blame them, the Artcoustic pieces are extremely cool but NASTY expensive.

We are working on doing the exact same thing, only designing custom frames and prints over acoustically transparent fabric or thin metal sheets with microperfs. These pieces of hi-rez art prints would be framed to taste & totally customizable. Purpose built to conceal any set of in-wall speakers or dress up acoustic panels to make them look like artwork.

We are close and should have prototypes finished in a few weeks! But to design speakers JUST for that purpose seems very limiting.

 

[Patrukas777]

It will be interesting to see the prices of these speakers. I might have to make a few calls to SVS and see the price range of these speakers.

 

[jostenmeat]

They are identical in concept. Can't blame them, the Artcoustic pieces are extremely cool but NASTY expensive.

I can't remember the pricing, but I remember thinking something similar about the GIK Art panels.

We are working on doing the exact same thing, only designing custom frames and prints over acoustically transparent fabric or thin metal sheets with microperfs. These pieces of hi-rez art prints would be framed to taste & totally customizable. Purpose built to conceal any set of in-wall speakers or dress up acoustic panels to make them look like artwork.

Wow, does microperfed metal work well? How about a weave instead, like Seymour's screens? I believe weaves are supposed to measure better than microperfs?

What type of fabric do you think you would choose?

We are close and should have prototypes finished in a few weeks! But to design speakers JUST for that purpose seems very limiting.

Can you expound on this? I mean, let's take a regular in-wall speaker, and then I say, "to design speakers JUST for that purpose seems very limiting". Well, what particular part of the design are you referring to?

 

[InTheIndustry]

I can't remember the pricing, but I remember thinking something similar about the GIK Art panels.



Wow, does microperfed metal work well? How about a weave instead, like Seymour's screens? I believe weaves are supposed to measure better than microperfs?

What type of fabric do you think you would choose?



Can you expound on this? I mean, let's take a regular in-wall speaker, and then I say, "to design speakers JUST for that purpose seems very limiting". Well, what particular part of the design are you referring to?

- The metal should be fine as long as it has enough holes per inch (think of a perf screen, only thin, pliable metal - like a thinner metal speaker grill). I didn't ask for the specific count, but was told by our acoustic panel engineer (who happens to be wonderful in a machine shop) that he found a balance that is working well. We just have to make it on a bigger sample. He thinks once printed that it should look great. Not as rich looking as fabric, but more contemporary or old timey depending on the art and coloring.

- The toughest part in all of this is the fabric & ink process/combo. I'm no printer, but feel as though after all of the conversations I've had with textile manufacturers and commercial printers that I can somewhat understand what fabrics and processes are used to hold the ink and have it look photo realistic.

I've spent a small fortune working on this in my down time over the last THREE YEARS trying different fabrics and weaves along with sample prints. I was beginning to feel like I'd never figure it out.... Until very recently .We're trying to get these prototypes done so that we can offer them locally and nationally through sales reps, dealers, and interior designers and online. We found an acoustically perfect fabric that works wonderful. If I told everybody how I did it, that might ruin my surprise!

- What I meant by that is that the art on acoustically transparent fabric covering a speaker would be a great thing to offer to anyone. Just by itself it's a unique and incredibly smart idea that people would go for.

By only offering it in speaker form is limiting. They designed a way to do the screens, but then whacked off being able to sell to ANYONE else who doesn't have Artcoustic or SVS art speakers. While what I'm trying to do is offer the exact same (or better) concept/look, but with custom word work frames and an obviously lower price point because you don't HAVE to buy "Speaker model XYZ" to make it work.

I deal with interior designers every day.... People would sooner buy and appreciate an $800 set of art frames to go over a pair of $600 speakers in a hot minute before they bought a pair of $1400 speakers. It adds form to the function in a very personal, dramatic way. I just came up with random price points, but in all seriousness, frames like what we're building could retail for $1000 a pair and many people wouldn't blink an eye regardless of speaker cost because it would solve a NEED. Another selling point: Wives will let husbands buy bigger, better in walls if they can get bigger art to cover them up.

I'm working on the digital rights to an image from star wars to put on a big acoustic panel that conceals the rear right surround speaker in our new show room. The panel & image will be 3' W x 6' H with the speaker behind the fabric. Those images are crazy expensive. Over $1400 for a digital copy of it with the proper DPI!

 

[InTheIndustry]

How about a weave instead, like Seymour's screens? I believe weaves are supposed to measure better than microperfs?

Also, in direct response to this....

Yes, woven screens are better for picture and sound. However, for what we're trying to do, the metal (aluminum) seems to work fine in theory. The metal was something we were playing around with when we needed to brainstorm on the fabric end so we decided to try and make one. My biggest fear is the printing on it part, which we haven't messed with yet.

The fabric we're using is woven, but screen material absolutely does NOT work. I have tried a few kinds of screen fabrics as well as all sorts of printing methods on them and it just bleeds and absorbs. I even tried a vinyl perf screen material and it didn't look like how I wanted. It just seemed very cheap looking and that's not going to enhance anyone's decore or lifestyle.

However, I'm 99% certain that these new samples on fabric will come back looking perfect and better than imagined!

 

[digicidal]

The problem is one (as ITI stated) of bleed... we need it in printing.

I used to do some offset and much larger digital airbrushing - on carpets actually - in my "previous life" before I moved into IT. There is much more complexity to this, but in a nutshell - natural colors always bleed. Our eyes perceive colors with much less specificity than extremes - i.e. black and white.

It's interesting that the substrate itself is less important than the manner in which it interacts with light. If significant light is involved (esp. projected light) - we will see color-bleeding by design - and our brains smooth everything out. That's why an LCD at ~100dpi looks pretty smooth, while a 100dpi printed page looks horribly pixellated (because it's reflected light only). Also why a 600dpi inkjet print will always look better than a 600dpi laser print (unless it's laminated - which causes bleed to occur despite the pigments being incompletely fused).

If you're using aluminum it should be pretty good, but I would wonder if you couldn't also use similarly perforated mylar sheets which could be printed prior to perforation. Since the solid areas of the aluminum should be highly reflective - you should be able to use the same pore size I would think. Have you tried other substrates in your experiments? I would think at worst this would provide a dithering effect similar to newsprint images. You mentioned using a vinyl I believe - but there are many types of vinyl/plastic substrates - some much better to print on than others.

I'm working on artwork for my GIK panels at the moment. However because of the nature of the fabric I've decided to design only abstract art to print on them since our eyes are much more accepting of blurred images of things we don't associate with actual visual memories. With pictures of people or objects we see in daily life - our brains seem to spend much more time figuring out "what's wrong with this picture".

Since I'm using my livingroom as my HT - I can't see Star Wars posters going up there without announcing my 'geekdom' to everyone that walks in the front door (no matter how accurate such a branding might be). But I would be very interested in seeing some pictures of the final results of your printed aluminum panels posted here.

 

[InTheIndustry]

The problem is one (as ITI stated) of bleed... we need it in printing.

I used to do some offset and much larger digital airbrushing - on carpets actually - in my "previous life" before I moved into IT. There is much more complexity to this, but in a nutshell - natural colors always bleed. Our eyes perceive colors with much less specificity than extremes - i.e. black and white.

It's interesting that the substrate itself is less important than the manner in which it interacts with light. If significant light is involved (esp. projected light) - we will see color-bleeding by design - and our brains smooth everything out. That's why an LCD at ~100dpi looks pretty smooth, while a 100dpi printed page looks horribly pixellated (because it's reflected light only). Also why a 600dpi inkjet print will always look better than a 600dpi laser print (unless it's laminated - which causes bleed to occur despite the pigments being incompletely fused).

If you're using aluminum it should be pretty good, but I would wonder if you couldn't also use similarly perforated mylar sheets which could be printed prior to perforation. Since the solid areas of the aluminum should be highly reflective - you should be able to use the same pore size I would think. Have you tried other substrates in your experiments? I would think at worst this would provide a dithering effect similar to newsprint images. You mentioned using a vinyl I believe - but there are many types of vinyl/plastic substrates - some much better to print on than others.

I'm working on artwork for my GIK panels at the moment. However because of the nature of the fabric I've decided to design only abstract art to print on them since our eyes are much more accepting of blurred images of things we don't associate with actual visual memories. With pictures of people or objects we see in daily life - our brains seem to spend much more time figuring out "what's wrong with this picture".

Since I'm using my livingroom as my HT - I can't see Star Wars posters going up there without announcing my 'geekdom' to everyone that walks in the front door (no matter how accurate such a branding might be). But I would be very interested in seeing some pictures of the final results of your printed aluminum panels posted here.

Some great information here, thanks!

I like the thought of adding a mylar or plastic, and very wise thinking about punching our holes afterwards. I hadn't gotten to the point of printing one of the metal pieces out yet, jest working on it's ability to allow sound to pass through. The different surfaces would be great for offering different looks. My long term goal is to make this totally customizable for anyone's decor.

If the fabric turns out like the printer said, and he seemed incredibly excited about it, I don't know if I'll be going down the sheet metal road right away. Instead I'll focus on putting together everything else that would go with the panels/speaker frames. The fabric looks to be the richest, most widely acceptable material for most people's homes so I'll probably start with that.

And I totally agree on the Star Wars NOT for the living room! . That panel is going into our dedicated theater in our show room, which has sort of an outer space look, to show how we can make a functional piece of your system into a functional piece of art.

And I will definitely post pics. I will make a thread later today in the general section that shows off something else we've designed for our show room. It's gotten rave reviews from interior designers and clients.

I appreciate the different ideas and expertise. I approach everything with the idea that "I don't know what I don't know" and am always looking and open to learn from people. Thanks!

 

[its phillip]

Nothing wrong with having classic star wars art in the living room. Don't be ashamed of your geekiness :<

 

[BrandonCHenry]

This has been around several years....


They are identical in concept. Can't blame them, the Artcoustic pieces are extremely cool but NASTY expensive.

***The SVS Art Speaker Line is an in-wall product. Artcoustic is not designed to go in-wall.

We are working on doing the exact same thing, only designing custom frames and prints over acoustically transparent fabric or thin metal sheets with microperfs. These pieces of hi-rez art prints would be framed to taste & totally customizable. Purpose built to conceal any set of in-wall speakers or dress up acoustic panels to make them look like artwork.

We are close and should have prototypes finished in a few weeks! But to design speakers JUST for that purpose seems very limiting.

****The advantage of having speakers that are designed just for that purpose is they they have cross-overs designed to compensate for the fabric that the art is printed on. The cross-over also has a switch on it that can be set to "in-wall" or "on-wall".

 

[InTheIndustry]

****The advantage of having speakers that are designed just for that purpose is they they have cross-overs designed to compensate for the fabric that the art is printed on. The cross-over also has a switch on it that can be set to "in-wall" or "on-wall".

Adjust for the fabric? How about using acoustically transparent fabric that acts like a traditional speaker grill? That would call for no particularly special adjustments.

As far as boundary compensation switches go.... Not necessary if you're just going to cover an existing in-wall speaker as they should be designed to work without any special switching variables besides maybe some freq pitch toggles. However, if you're designing a "dual threat" product that can be on or in-wall then, yes, I can see the point.

In the mean time, I've met with a large local printer. I should have samples back to me in around 2 weeks. This should work out to be a really cool endeavor when the final product is finished.

 

[digicidal]

Adjust for the fabric? How about using acoustically transparent fabric that acts like a traditional speaker grill? That would call for no particularly special adjustments.

Perhaps not significant ones, but even acoustically transparent fabric isn't truly transparent - in that it does leave a signature (just that the signature is so insignificant that it's not considered relevant.

There are a few speaker designers (JMLabs/Focal for one) that design their crossovers with grill-compensation. There are a few reviews where they take measurements with/without grills and in almost every case they are better without the grills (indicating crossovers designed pre-grill) - but in most cases Focals will measure a little flatter with at least the tweeter grill left in place because it's compensated for in the network. I believe they do not compensate for the main grill - or they 'split the difference' perhaps.

I would guess that's the case with the SVS units as well. Since they already know ahead of time what impact both the infinite baffle (if in-wall) and cloth effects are had on the sound they can compensate - because you're not going to put those ugly beasties in the wall without covering them with something all the time.

On the other hand if you mean 'significant' changes - then no, a good transparent material will not make any significant changes. Usually the only effect it has at all is a slight dampening of the highest frequencies I believe (based solely on measurements I've observed of on/off grill samples with different speakers).

 

[BrandonCHenry]

That is correct. The crossover is used to "brighten" the high frequencies coming from the tweeter.

A fabric that is very transparent for sound doesn’t do artwork justice when it is printed on. SVS spent countless hours printing on fabrics and testing them acoustically. What they ended up with holds a gorgeous printed image. They had about twenty different prints on display during CES.

Their new shallow woofer uses neo magnets. Pretty cool design!

The new FS-SA800 amp comes pre loaded with a custom EQ file for the sub your coupling it with, which helps give you flat frequency response.