surround sound speakers

S

scobro

Enthusiast
I am fairly new to home theatre and have been doing a lot of research the past few months.I am putting together the home theatre in my living room which is in a town house and is a medium size room with an open concept to the kitchen instead of a seperate door to enclose the living room.I am going to buy the components all seperatly(budget) and hope to have everything by MAY/05. I want to start with the subwoofer and speakers my budget is $1500.00 for these two items.I have noticed the home theatre in a box items but find the subwoofer usually is lacking and the prices are fairly cheap so i assume you pay for what you get.I was thinking about the HSU VTF-2 or STF-2 subwoofer and the HSU Ventriloquist six channel satellite speaker system as i would like a 6.1 system.What are other good companies for speakers and subs? and are satellite speakers the way to go or is tower and bookshelf speakers superior?also is it recommended to have the speaker and subwoofer made by the same company or can you mix and match with no real problems in sound?.Thanks for any guidance you can give me as the sound of my system is top priority with me.
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
Velodyne is another source for good quality subs. Some of their lower lines are not too great, but Circuit City has started carrying their mid-lines ($ 350 and up), so you can go hear them in person. You might also look at the Outlaw subs at www.outlaw.com (about $ 550 ish)

You can mix a sub with other manufacturers very well. Decent subs will have a variable cross-over that you can set to start picking up the base right at the point where your mains leave off. That lets you can mix the sub into almost any system. You might have to move the sub around a bit to get the best possible sound. (see this article- http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/subwooferplacementguide.php )

If you get a decent cube system, you can use smaller speakers. Look for mid-ranges at least four inches in diameter with a tweeter no larger than about an inch and a quarter. Check the specs and make sure they go down to about 60 or 70 Hertz and up to above 18 KHz. Look for a signal-to-noise ratio of 89 or higher. Some manufacturers make cubes using very small mids (around three inches) that have poor bottom performance (like 200 Hz or so), and they try to make the sub work above 100 Hz to fill in.

Front bookshelf speakers or towers is really the best way to go, especially if you intend to use them for a decent amount of music. The center speaker carries alot of dialog, so you'll want to sink some money into that as well. Try to match the front three speakers from the same model line from the same manufacturer.

The sub and rear speakers can pretty much be any good quality product. The rears only have to have a good mid-range and tweeter. Those are the most directional sounds and we (humans) use them to distinguish motion. Your fronts and sub will give all the bass you need, so more bass form the rear is really overkill.

Some decent speakers in your price range include the M60 towers at www.axiomaudio.com, the rocket pieces from onix at www.av123.com, Polk Audio and Klipsch from you nearby Circuit City and Ultimate Electronics are competitive. You can get some really great closeout prices on the Infinity Kappa speakers at www.onecall.com

enjoy your shopping ! :)
 
jaguars_fan

jaguars_fan

Junior Audioholic
First...welcome to the wonderful world of home theater! I know you will enjoy it!

As for your speaker budget, there are plenty of choices out there for $1,500; it's all in what you like. I prefer to have all the speakers and sub-woofer made by the same company so that they will all reproduce the sound the same (timbre matching). Each speaker brand has its own unique sound and therefore will reproduce each individual sound slightly, but noticeably differently. Shop around and listen for what you like the best.

As for bookshelf versus floor standing fronts...hands down I prefer floor standing since I also enjoy 2-channel listening quite often. I also live in an apartment building with open everything so having them helps to fill the room without sounding like I'm living in a tuna can.

Again, it's what you like and can afford that will dictate what you buy. Do yourself a big favor though and visit a few stores and listen with your favorite DVD or music and if possible, ask for an in-home trial of the set you like the most since it will be much different at home with a kitchen versus a neatly arranged and purposely built audition room.

Finally, when you get your new babies home and they sound like doo doo...don't despair...they need to 'break in' before they will sound great!


Enjoy, and once again, welcome to HT! :D
 
F

flyv65

Full Audioholic
Well, here's my two cents on the subject. First off, it's not as important to match the sub to the speakers as it is to match the speakers to each other...to the point that I wouldn't think twice about having a different, good quality sub with what I've got now. As far as your other questions, let me ask you a few first. What size is your HT room (dimensions/volume)? Do you have vaulted ceilings, or alot of glass/sliding glass doors? Do you listen more to music or movies-and if you listen more to music, are you leaning more towars stereo or multi-channel? These are some of the things you want to think about when you start deciding between floorstanding and bookshelf speakers, or what kind of sub to buy.

As far as other manufactures, check out the Velodyne subs as well as the SVS subwoofers (the SVS stuff is some serious "bang-for-the-buck" if you've got the space for them). for speakers, if you're thinking about building you own set there are alot of people on the board who think quite highly of the Polk stuff, as well as Definitive Technolgies, PSB, JBL, Paradigm, B&W, etc., and many of them sell 5.1 systems as well. There is another 5.1 system you might want to think about, and that's the Totem Acoustics Dreamcatcher system. I think it goes for about $1700 (a little out of your range), but it's gotten very good reviews and the one I heard was quite impressive.

Bryan...what have you listen to so far that you like?...
 
S

scobro

Enthusiast
flyv65 said:
Well, here's my two cents on the subject. First off, it's not as important to match the sub to the speakers as it is to match the speakers to each other...to the point that I wouldn't think twice about having a different, good quality sub with what I've got now. As far as your other questions, let me ask you a few first. What size is your HT room (dimensions/volume)? Do you have vaulted ceilings, or alot of glass/sliding glass doors? Do you listen more to music or movies-and if you listen more to music, are you leaning more towars stereo or multi-channel? These are some of the things you want to think about when you start deciding between floorstanding and bookshelf speakers, or what kind of sub to buy.

As far as other manufactures, check out the Velodyne subs as well as the SVS subwoofers (the SVS stuff is some serious "bang-for-the-buck" if you've got the space for them). for speakers, if you're thinking about building you own set there are alot of people on the board who think quite highly of the Polk stuff, as well as Definitive Technolgies, PSB, JBL, Paradigm, B&W, etc., and many of them sell 5.1 systems as well. There is another 5.1 system you might want to think about, and that's the Totem Acoustics Dreamcatcher system. I think it goes for about $1700 (a little out of your range), but it's gotten very good reviews and the one I heard was quite impressive.

Bryan...what have you listen to so far that you like?...
I have listened to Paradigm and Axiom and to me they were both great sounding and because all that i am use to hearing is my Sharp electronics 27'' t.v audio, anything with a sub and surround is gonna knock my socks off at first ;) I will be watching more movies than listening to music.My living room is small about the size of a large master bedroom, the ceiling is low about 9 feet.The whole satellite compared to towers and bookshelf speakers is confusing to me.Is it just a difference in size or do satellites tend to sound better because they are smaller?.
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
scobro said:
The whole satellite compared to towers and bookshelf speakers is confusing to me.Is it just a difference in size or do satellites tend to sound better because they are smaller?.
the opposite is true. towers and bookshelf speakers will give you alot more satisfaction than a satellite system. They just tend to fill up more space with better quality sound and give you alot more room for error if everything isn't located in the perfect position. satellites can sound good, but you have to do a really great job of hitting the sweet spot.

satellites, in my opinion, just don't have the oomph you get from a larger speaker. I'm not saying you have to go Back to the Future big, but something like these:

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=39.1

or these: http://www.axiomaudio.com/m22ti.html

or these: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ztFHnX8A6gf/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=37900&I=107MON40C

will get you some really great sound in the front.
 
F

flyv65

Full Audioholic
scobro said:
I have listened to Paradigm and Axiom and to me they were both great sounding and because all that i am use to hearing is my Sharp electronics 27'' t.v audio, anything with a sub and surround is gonna knock my socks off at first ;) I will be watching more movies than listening to music.My living room is small about the size of a large master bedroom, the ceiling is low about 9 feet.The whole satellite compared to towers and bookshelf speakers is confusing to me.Is it just a difference in size or do satellites tend to sound better because they are smaller?.
Actually, I find satellites don't sound as good as floorstanding or bookshelf speakers do-there is only so much you can do with a small volume cabinet. If all you were going to do was watch movies then in the interest of saving money I'd say get a satellite system-they're small, affordable, and suit a small room. I really like floorstanding speakers for the front, a good center and sub, and two bookshelves for the rear channels. I think this gives about the best mix of music/movie listening (at least for me), but it can be expensive, take up more floorspace, and be more "watt-intensive". Since you have a smaller room and plan on listening to music as well, I'd suggest four good bookshelf speakers with a nice center and sub. You'll be giving up some of the range that you get with floorstanders (and that *can* be an issue if you groove on classical music or metal bands), but it could save you some bucks now and still allow you to "upgrade" to floorstanding fronts later on if you get a bigger place (set up a second zone with the 2 bookcase fronts or bump them around to play 7.1).

Leprkon listed some good choices for speakers-don't forget to think about mounting brackets or stands (if you're not actually putting them on bookshelves). One of the nice things about these smaller speakers is that they often benefit from placement closer to the wall (it tends to beef up the lower frequencies).

Bryan...if you get speakers good enough for music, they're usually good enough for movies :) ...
 
Z

Zarg

Junior Audioholic
Another Two Centavos

Hey ScoBro --

I think you can set up a good set of speakers for your budget. First, I agree that it's not important to "timbre match" the sub and the rest of the speakers. I'm not convinced that the low-freqs have any particular timbre, anyway. My advice is based on that assumption. Some folks may think my advice is bass-ackwards, but here you go.

I would first select the sub. (Why? Because a good sub will make your other speakers sound good but a bad sub will make good speakers sound bad. This is even more important if you are going for satellites -- see below.)

Visit some websites to get an idea of what you can get for the money. SV Subwoofers and HSU and Outlaw Audio offer really good subwoofer values, IMO. Also check out Definitive Technology, since a couple of months ago they were moving out their "old" (award-winning) subs on the cheap. Axiom Audio also offers an entry-level sub that you should check out.

I'm not sure that you can really audition a subwoofer in a store. So much depends on the system that's running it and where the cross-over is set, and (of course) the room acoustics. My method (for what it's worth) was to ask all my friends who had HT systems what they liked and why, and to listen to their systems as much as possible. I also read reviews (from this site and elsewhere) to see what the "professionals" had to say. After my research (done about 4 months ago), I was down to three finalists: SV, Outlaw Audio, and Definitive Tech. I thought they offered the best combination of quality, sound, and value for my price range. But do your own research!

Once you've selected your sub, you will know how much money you have left over for the rest of your system (5 speakers, right? ). Axioms are popular here (I have a set myself) as are other brands such as Paradigm. I'm told that Atlantic Technology and Energy offer good value for price. Get the best speakers you can for your remaining budget -- but the good news about speakers is that you can always upgrade in the future if you have to make budget compromises today.

My speaker theory is that I don't audition them in stores either, for the same reasons I don't audition subs. I listen to my friends' systems, I read reviews and--most importantly--I look at the technical graphs to see how flat the speakers perform over the 20 - 20,000 frequency range. My ears might fool me based on room acoustics and other set-up thingees, but (in theory) the graphs don't lie. In my personal view, the best speakers are the flattest over the widest frequency range. But that's just me and what I used as a criterion.

I agree that towers sound better than satellites. Why? Well, I'm no expert, but this is what I think I know: Towers tend to have more and/or bigger drivers, which push out more sound at a wider range of frequencies than satellites, which are (generally) designed to only push out specific frequencies, relying on the sub or the other speakers to handle the rest. If you can afford it, you would want your speakers to handle as much of the load as possible.

(But a lot of folks set their speakers to "small" meaning that the speakers don't handle the full range anyway. So it may not really matter a heck of a lot anyway.)

As I mentioned above, if you have a really great sub then satellites will likely work for your initial HT system. I know a friend who ran Bose cubes and a really kick-*** M&K subwoofer, and his system sounded pretty sweet. But lots of folks will tell you (probably correctly) that my friend's system lacked the ability to really pump out the higher frequencies. The thing is, my friend's theory was that, in HT the voices (mids and lower mids) and the lower freqs were more important that the highs, so he selected his speakers accordingly, based on what he could afford. If you listen to music through your system, you might not go the same way as my friend did.

Apologies for the length of the post! Good luck!

Zarg
 
Last edited:
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Leprkon said:
Check the specs and make sure they go down to about 60 or 70 Hertz and up to above 18 KHz. Look for a signal-to-noise ratio of 89 or higher. :)

Signal-to-noise measurments do not exist in speakers. I think you are confusing that with sensitivity. Bandwidth measurements are useless unless they are stated with a tolorance. For example:

Speaker A has a bandwidth of 40hz-20khz +/-6db

Speaker B has a bandwidth of 40hz-20khz +/-3db

Speaker B will have better low end performance as it extends further down the range with much less loss. It (speaker B) most likely will have better overall sound quality as it has a tighter tolorance resulting in flatter frequency response. It is best to select speakers that do not vary more than 3db over their entire range. 3db is just noticeable by most people as a change in relative volume.

If bandwidth is not stated I could have a speaker rated at 20hz-20khz. Even though it is -30db at 20hz, -6db at 20khz, and +7db at 1700hz. This would not be a very good sounding speaker.

For the original poster, I would look into the B&W 300 series speaker, PSB Alpha series, and DCM speakers.

http://www.bwspeakers.com , http://www.psbspeakers.com , http://www.dcmspeakers.com
 
L

Leprkon

Audioholic General
annunaki said:
Signal-to-noise measurments do not exist in speakers. I think you are confusing that with sensitivity.
what he said... look for a sensitivity of 89 or better. :D
 
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