Surge Protectors Discussion

[JerryLove]

If JerryLove knew reality, then he would have cited sources, facts, and numbers for his challenges.

You mean like I did in post #28?

I especially liked in that post how I went to one of *your* sources advocating plug-in supressors.

His post is classic of how Rush Limbaugh does it. Rather than confront reality, he posts mockery. Limbaugh, for example, used the same technique to attack "Hillary".

Analogies work sometimes but ultimately fail... like cars.

But I was unaware that Rush's major problem was attacking hillary on forums and not posting cites.

In any location where damage cannot happen, plug-in protectors are not used. Always installed is the well proven solution. Either the protector connected destructive energy harmlessly to earth. Or it somehow and magically absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. JerryLove could not dispute the facts. Instead he posts mockery.

No. Comparing me to Ruck was mockery. Claiming that some undefined standard of places (ones which cannot have damage) "never use plug-in protectors"... well, if you knew reality you would have cited sources.

The US Air Force manuals for surge protection are quite specific. No plug-in protectors are recommended. US Air Force bluntly defines the required protector:

I'm looking for your link but it doesn't seem to be there.

I'll give you one. Here's the plug-in unit from a company that specializes in sales to the armed forces: http://www.bestqualitypower.com/products.asp?cID=5

"". . . After a full year of protection and zero failure rate on our protected equipment, we submitted an Air Force suggestion program modification proposal to implement these configuration changes Air Force wide."
SMSgt Richard Wolf, Jr.
Maintenance Support Superintendent
Eglin AFB"

So what were you saying about a sense of reality?

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post. It's crap I debunked last time. The fact that you continue with bold-faced and easily disproven lies like the one above discredits anything you say to the point that it seems waseful to even argue it.

I've shown you that your own source recommends and sells plug-in protection, I've shown you that the Air-Force uses it. Last time you were shown an Army Munitions dump using them (you had said they don't). I've linked to APCs guarenee of protection (you say they don't claim protection). It's just one lie after another with you.

I'm curious: You've been here longer than I, do you have a single post about audio? It seems your sole purpose is to hawk your website.

 

[Rickster71]

I'm not going to waste anyone's time going over point by point and try to counter all the BS that's been spewed.

Dear Westom,
obviously your vast talents and intellect are being wasted on us here on an audio site.

Me thinks your great mind may be put to better use by helping the power companies. (those pesky Utility Co. just don't get it)

Explain to them why their use of MOV disks and Surge Suppression on their thousands of miles of distribution lines is wrong.
Below is a link to Portland General Electric to use just as an example:
http://www.portlandgeneral.com/safety_outages/surge_protection/products/protection_panel.aspx
Power Companies are recommending Panel-mounted surge protection.
You can do a search on your local PoCo and get the same results.

My post is too long already;
as you can see westcom, no one really "gets it" like you do.
Please help us Obi Wan Westom; you're our only hope.

 

[Halon451]

^ Hmmm.. I sense a disturbance in the Force.. and that disturbance has taken the form of hilarious sarcasm. Love it.

 

[westom]

Below is a link to Portland General Electric to use just as an example:
http://www.portlandgeneral.com/safety_outages/surge_protection/products/protection_panel.aspx
Power Companies are recommending Panel-mounted surge protection.

Portland General Electric is also recommending the 'whole house' protector. A device essential to protection of plug-in protectors. Panel mounted surge protection is the earthed 'whole house' protector. That was obvious from previous posts.

 

[evpj13]

My head hurts after reading this thread!!!


I just have one simple question!

For $90, will this protect my HT system?

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-PureAV®-Theater-Power-Console/dp/B000T9DHZW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1280524779&sr=8-1

 

[TLS Guy]

My head hurts after reading this thread!!!


I just have one simple question!

For $90, will this protect my HT system?

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-PureAV®-Theater-Power-Console/dp/B000T9DHZW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1280524779&sr=8-1

Very little.

 

[sholling]

My head hurts after reading this thread!!!


I just have one simple question!

For $90, will this protect my HT system?

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-PureAV®-Theater-Power-Console/dp/B000T9DHZW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1280524779&sr=8-1

It will help for almost anything short of a nearby lightning strike. But keep in mind that you need to replace your suppressors every year or two because they die a little bit with each spike they stop eventually becoming little more than a power strip.

If you don't want to spend that much on a disposable item then you may want to consider other premium surge suppressors like Tripp Lites Isobar line.

 

[westom]

If you don't want to spend that much on a disposable item then you may want to consider other premium surge suppressors like Tripp Lites Isobar line.

If a protector is a disposable item, then it provided zero protection. Disconnected the protector circuit as fast as possible. Left the appliance to fend for itself. Disposal protectors are often destroyed by surges too small to overwhelm protection already inside appliances.

To recommend the Tripplite, one must understand none of the simple 100 year old science. Then go recommed the ineffective scam knowing full well the simple science was never undrestood. If you need a Tripplite, then buy the same protector circuit in any grocery store for $7.

So simple. How to identify ineffective protectors. 1) It has no dedicated wire for the always essential and required short connection to earth. 2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. Both the Belkin and the Tripplite meet both criteria.

Why did the NIST (US government research agency) say:
> The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly.

Because that has been known for the past 100 years. Because the Belkiin and Tripplite have no earth ground - are described by the NIST as "useless". And because so many will overtly ignore reality to preach what hearsay and advertising order then to believe. Amazing. No matter how many facts and reasons are posted, still so many blindly believe only what professional spin doctors tell them to believe.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Neither a Belkin nor Tripplite have that always required, dedicated earthing connection. Even manufacture numeric specifications claim no protection. The manufacturer will not even claim effective protection! And still some continue to recommend the scam.

 

[JerryLove]

If a protector is a disposable item, then it provided zero protection. Disconnected the protector circuit as fast as possible. Left the appliance to fend for itself. Disposal protectors are often destroyed by surges too small to overwhelm protection already inside appliances.

BTW: The surge suppressors he despises use the exact same mechanism that the ones he recommends do: a vari-resistor providing a path to ground.

So simple. How to identify ineffective protectors. 1) It has no dedicated wire for the always essential and required short connection to earth. 2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. Both the Belkin and the Tripplite meet both criteria.

Actually: you can short to the return path, or through the third wire (why it's there).

 

[westom]

BTW: The surge suppressors he despises use the exact same mechanism that the ones he recommends do: a vari-resistor providing a path to ground.

If brainwashed, one will recite that nasty lie repeatedly. Obviously effective protectors are completely different from plug-in scams. Ineffective protectors do not even claim protection in their numeric specs. That alone is a major difference. Jerry is repeatedly challenged to post those numbers. He cannot. Even the manufacturer will not claim protection that 'whole house' protector do routinely.

No plug-in protector lists protection from each type of surge for one simple reason. It is a different circuit. Obviously ineffective protectors do not earth, do not have the dedicated wire necessary to earth, and will not discuss the concept.

Obviously, ineffective protectors - ie APC, Monters - have no dedicated connection to earth. More obvious differences: It will not even discuss the concept. Make no protection claims in specifications. Will not discuss how a plug-in protector makes hundreds of thousands of joules magically disappear. Cannot explain how its 2 centimeter part stops what three miles of sky could not. And hypes a big buck warranty that is not honored.

Effective protectors mean a surge is not even inside the building. No energy inside means no destructive hunt for earth via appliances. Means nobody even knows a surge existed. The informed pay tens or 100 times less money, earth one 'whole house' protector, and upgrade earthing. The effective solutons even costs much less money - just another big difference. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. That alone is the difference. But it requires one to learn science and numbers; not be educated by advertising and hearsay.

 

[JerryLove]

Westom's embarrassing public spanking, complete with him contradicting himself, his sources contradicting him, and links to exactly the claims and specs he claims don't exist can be found here

Schadenfreude fans enjoy...

And when you get to the last couple of pages an jneutron comes in? Awesome!