Super Zero 2.0

[zieglj01]

The Super Zero 2.0 got a nice review. However, the measurements
are interesting.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/nht-superzero-20-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures
http://www.hometheater.com/content/nht-superzero-20-speaker-system

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The SuperZero 2.0’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +3.01/–3.03 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz...The –3-dB point is at 110 Hz...

Well, it meets the +/-3dB standard.

And folks need to crossover @ 120Hz.

 

[3db]

The SuperZero 2.0’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +3.01/–3.03 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz...The –3-dB point is at 110 Hz...

Well, it meets the +/-3dB standard.

And folks need to crossover @ 120Hz.

Those would be tricky to integrate with a sub with that high of a frequency at the -3db point. The Sinclairs also reviewed in that issue have +/2db range but they are $500 more for the system.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Those would be tricky to integrate with a sub with that high of a frequency at the -3db point. The Sinclairs also reviewed in that issue have +/2db range but they are $500 more for the system.

As long as the subwoofer is flat from 20Hz-120Hz, I don't see a problem.

I think Warpdrv sets his crossover @ 120Hz or 150Hz even though his Paradigm S8 can go down well bellow 50Hz @ -3dB.

Are you saying that having to set the crossover above 80Hz is bad (localized bass)?

My Orions can go down to 30Hz @ -3dB, but I set the crossover to 80Hz.

Do you think I should set the crossover to 60Hz?

 

[3db]

As long as the subwoofer is flat from 20Hz-120Hz, I don't see a problem.

Localization of the sub maybe a problem if a sub has to run that high up.

I think Warpdrv sets his crossover @ 120Hz or 150Hz even though his Paradigm S8 can go down well bellow 50Hz @ -3dB..

The speakers are probably crossed at 80Hz by the receiver so his subs will never see anything higher than that.

Are you saying that having to set the crossover above 80Hz is bad (localized bass)?

My Orions can go down to 30Hz @ -3dB, but I set the crossover to 80Hz.

Do you think I should set the crossover to 60Hz?

What I'm saying is that the sub need to play at least a 110Hz for those NHTs. Set the cross over at 85 Hz on the receiver and you will get a hole in your bass response because those NHTs cannot produce that frequency and the sub will only get 85Hz and below.

 

[alphaiii]

But we all know xovers aren't a brick wall... so even with a 120Hz xover, there will be some content above the xover that the sub has to handle... Likewise, the speaker will need to handle a bit below that point...

Alot of subs just don't do well with that high of a xover... so it makes it tough to get a smooth transition...

Add in the ability to localize frequencies this high and it's even more likely that transition from sub to speaker at the xover will draw attention to itself.

It's never a good thing when voices can be heard through a sub... and in my experience, it often makes them sound boomy/bassy... unless the sub is actually articulate at upper bass frequencies... and I just don't think very many of them are...

So I don't like the idea of having to use anything higher than a 100Hz xover... based on my own experiences. I sent the SZ 2.0 back after demo'ing for a few weeks for this very reason... Audyssey just wasn't giving anything less than 150Hz... and I didn't like running the xover that high...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Localization of the sub maybe a problem if a sub has to run that high up.



The speakers are probably crossed at 80Hz by the receiver so his subs will never see anything higher than that.



What I'm saying is that the sub need to play at least a 110Hz for those NHTs. Set the cross over at 85 Hz on the receiver and you will get a hole in your bass response because those NHTs cannot produce that frequency and the sub will only get 85Hz and below.

I think most people would also agree that setting the crossover > 80Hz may cause some bass localization.

But I'm pretty sure Warpdr bypasses the crossover on his sub and sets the Pre-pro XO to 120Hz or 150Hz. I didn't understand why, though, especially since he has the S8.

Most people recommend 80Hz.

 

[3db]

I think most people would also agree that setting the crossover > 80Hz may cause some bass localization.

But I'm pretty sure Warpdr bypasses the crossover on his sub and sets the Pre-pro XO to 120Hz or 150Hz. I didn't understand why, though, especially since he has the S8.

Most people recommend 80Hz.

Thats a question only Warp can answer. But as far as those NHT goes, it will be difficult to integrate the sub without localizaton of teh sub from occuring because of the their 110Hz -3db point.

 

[GranteedEV]

I think most people would also agree that setting the crossover > 80Hz may cause some bass localization.

But I'm pretty sure Warpdr bypasses the crossover on his sub and sets the Pre-pro XO to 120Hz or 150Hz. I didn't understand why, though, especially since he has the S8.

Most people recommend 80Hz.

Warpdrv has three subs. I think his receiver is crossed over at 120hz, but only one of his subs is running that high. i think he does it to get flat in room response but I don't know for sure.

I think at the end of the day, rooms throw too much of a wrench in bass response even if your speakers extend well past 80hz. Here's my room... do you think it would matter if my -3db point was 120hz or 80hz considering the following (red trace is no sub, blue trace is sub crossed at 100hz)

 

[3db]

Warpdrv has three subs. I think his receiver is crossed over at 120hz, but only one of his subs is running that high. i think he does it to get flat in room response but I don't know for sure.

I think at the end of the day, rooms throw too much of a wrench in bass response even if your speakers extend well past 80hz. Here's my room... do you think it would matter if my -3db point was 120hz or 80hz considering the following (red trace is no sub, blue trace is sub crossed at 100hz)

Yikes!! I don't like that dip between 80-90Hz or the peak between 100 and 200HZ. Will bass traps shallow out that dip?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think at the end of the day, rooms throw too much of a wrench in bass response even if your speakers extend well past 80hz.

What's the take home message here?

1) Room modes are significant
2) You need 2 or more subs?
3) If you had 2 or more subs, then crossing over at higher frequencies is perfectly ok?

 

[GranteedEV]

The take home message is

"My F3 must be near 30-45hz but I'd need to cross near 140hz to get a passable response , so I'm going to complain about it to make myself feel better"

But yeah, two or more subs will of course "center" the bass between them so it won't be as localizable. Whether it sounds "right" to cross higher, I do not know; way too many factors at play.

Yikes!! I don't like that dip between 80-90Hz or the peak between 100 and 200HZ. Will bass traps shallow out that dip?

I dunno, but what I do know is that I don't want to spend 200+ dollars on just the material needed for good bass traps if it doesn't flatten out my response. Because then I'd need to get more bass traps to place elsewhere, and that would deaden the room =(

Maybe I'll get a new amp, that'll fix my bass.

On the bright side, when your room doesn't measure too well, just pull a velodyne and use 1/3 octave smoothing!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My F3 must be near 30-45hz but I'd need to cross near 140hz to get a passable response...

So the take home message is, just because a speaker can go down to 30Hz @ -3dB does NOT mean you should ALWAYS crossover below 120Hz.

To go one step further, crossing the NHT SuperZero @ 120Hz may not be bad at all.

 

[GranteedEV]

So the take home message is, just because a speaker can go down to 30Hz @ -3dB does NOT mean you should ALWAYS crossover below 120Hz.

No, the take home message is "Sometimes, one way or the other, you're screwed, so live with it, *****"

To go one step further, crossing the NHT SuperZero @ 120Hz may not be bad at all.

Well the higher you cross any speaker over, the more power handling you can squeeze out of it, so there's that. I think the super zero is meant as a sort of nearfield speaker, so sub localization shouldn't be problematic.

 

[3db]

To go one step further, crossing the NHT SuperZero @ 120Hz may not be bad at all.

Depending on the room. Ten Hz is not a lot of wiggle room for integrating a sub and sat and you will more than likely miss upper bass response as a result based on the room.

I know you like NHT but this system I would not recommend to friends unless they have even in-room bass response. The frequency response of these sats is far from great. The Sinclairs reviewed by HT is a better system and much easier to integrate into the room.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No, the take home message is "Sometimes, one way or the other, you're screwed, so live with it, *****"

Isn't that the take-home message about life in general?