Sunfire Ultimate 7.1 Receiver Review!!!!!!&#33

[steve]

<font color='#000000'>Audiouser,

You raise a good point.  We have nothing to gain by publishing a unfavorable review of the TGIII or any other product.

As for other product reviews, we are hoping to review the Parasound Halo C2 and Arcam processors soon, possibly in the next few weeks/months.  

I thank everyone for their opinions in our forums and as always, feel free to e-mail us an comments.</font>

 

[_audiouser_]

<font color='#000000'>Steve ,

The Parasound stuff would be great read. &nbsp;Look forward to seeing it. &nbsp;BTW I liked rev on the SFTGIII review, say it like it is.


Still, &nbsp;I'd like to hear the scoop on that euro Yammy 2400 and DPLIIx.</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'>Rich,

Yamaha is involved deeply with sound, their studio monitors are de rigueur in studios across the globe (170000 units sold), their musical instruments brace the best and musicians are among the most discerning people and they prefer Yamaha, you will see Yamaha instruments and pro audio equipment among the best venues across the world.

Yamaha and many other Japanese companies made high end stuff, but did the jaundiced reviewers care, nope, they were all of the opinion that the Japanese are incapable of making anything innovative or high end. Even with components better than most of US and Euro equipment, people would rate the Japanese products mid-fi, do you know why? Cause they are cheap, maybe if they were over priced over-hyped like others, people would be thronging to buy them. I guess most humans are masochist by nature. The only exception to this was Euro press which regularly give rave reviews to Yamaha and Accupahse, the German press which I consider to be the most comprehensive give high ratings to Yamaha and Accupahse amps, they rated the CDX-1060 to be among the best of CD players. Even English press gave the Yamaha NS-200 speakers better rating than the super expensive English made B&amp;W 801, they considered it to be among the most neutral speakers around. The Australian H-Fi mag in the 70s gave the NS-1000x as the flattest speakers ever to be tested so at least unlike their prejudiced counterparts, they are fair.

When Yamaha offered their $11000 MX-10000 amp and their equally ground breaking NSX-10000 speakers, there were few if any takers for them but now people look for them desperately. Same is the case with their NS-1000 speakers and their M and MX series amps. It is now that people are discovering them, I personally know someone from Audio Asylum who sold his $6800 Meadowlark speakers for a pair of used $700 NS-1000M. There are many more like him. You blasted Accuphase, do you have any knowledge about this company, I seriously doubt it, otherwise you wouldn?t have made that blanket statement.

Now let me burst your bubble about US supremacy and I am not doing this with relish.

Cross check with the US census bureau?

38% of doctors in US are Asian-Indian, 34% of Oracle is Asian Indian, 36% of MS is Indian, 43% of NASA is Asian Indian and these are just figures for Indians, I am not even bringing up other Asians in this equation. Most of the parts in your PC comes from far east and therefore in reach of average persons. You mentioned Intel, Vinod Dham was the architect of the now famous Pentium and he is Asian Indian. The original Intel chip was derived from a Japanese chip used in Busybee calculator in the sixties.

Still not convinced that Asians are capable of technological greats, just check the number of patents granted to Japanese companies and now even the Chinese are catching up. If this doesnt change your attitude, I am afraid nothing will. Learn about others and appreciate it, when you make statements like US is the best, then you are putting down everyone else in the world, dont forget who gave numerals, number line, algebra, 0, decimals and sub atomic particles along with gun powder, rocket, porcelin, abacus and many other things which make our life what it is today, it was yours truly Asians.

EOT as far as I am concerned.

</font>

 

[Jaycan]

<font color='#000000'>OK Yamahaluver-
C'mon now, only the truth. Sachin Tendulkar is not really human, is he? He must be an alien or something. In full flight he makes even the great Brian Lara in his heyday appear almost common.
One more thing. When do you plan to immigrate to the US?

</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>

Jaycan : <font color='#000000'>OK Yamahaluver-
C'mon now, only the truth. Sachin Tendulkar is not really human, is he? He must be an alien or something. In full flight he makes even the great Brian Lara in his heyday appear almost common.
One more thing. When do you plan to immigrate to the US?

</font>

<font color='#0000FF'>Wow! Jaycan,

You gotta be from the Carribean if you know Tendulkar and Lara, to me modern cricketers are all shams as the older ones played the real game and today's player plays for the bookies.

I lived in the US for 17 years before returning to the country of my birth, I am still a resident alien.(not ET)

</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Hi Rich,

Gene asked me to try to explain a little bit about production costs and labor rates.  Labor rates vary from place to place, just like the cost of living.  Usually labor rates rise along with the cost of living.  You don't have to look very far to see this.  Compare the cost of living in NY or LA with the cost of living in rural Georgia or Alabama.  Then compare labor costs.  You'll find that it cost more to live in NY or LA, and that the people who live and work there make a lot more money than the people in Georgia and Alabama.  I live in a rural area with a very low cost of living, and this allows me to live as well while working for less.

Now consider the fact that the United States has the highest standard of living in the world.  We have to pay (and charge) more for our labor, because it cost us more to live the way we are accustom to living.  Many countries have a population that lives constantly in what Americans would consider abject poverty.  Their cost of living is close to zero, because if it weren't, they could not afford to live.  There are places in the world where an entire family will fork for a full day (sun up to sundown) just to earn a little food to get them through to the next day (and some have it even worse).  In these places a few dollars can by man-years of labor.

China is overpopulated and under industrialized.  People are willing to work harder for less, because if they don't, someone else will get the job.  It's not like it is here, where the government insures everyone who works a minimum wage.  The people have to take what is offered, or go without.  The country is hard at work trying to bolster their economy and improve the living conditions of their people, but they have a long way to go.

At this point in time China has the cheapest functional labor pool on the planet.  I worked on a ribbon tweeter design a while back, and the big magnets we used carried a price of between $25 and $40 from every possible source EXCEPT China.  They could supply identical magnets for only $7 each.  Since each ribbon tweeter takes two magnets, a pair of speakers takes four, and the extra cost of NOT doing business with China adds up quickly.  If your competition is doing it and you're not, it is impossible to have competitive prices.

Dealing with China brings all manner of problems, and some of them seem unsolvable.  The first order of ribbon parts from China was useless, because they didn't have a clue what the parts were for or how to read the drawings (unskilled labor at it's very best).  The parts had to be returned.  After a few tries though, they figure it out and get it right.  Less than three months after we had them make parts they were marketing their own ribbon tweeters for a price lower than our parts cost (from China).  That's bad enough, but that isn't the worst of it.  Americans (and others around the world) are loosing jobs to China at a rate that is totally unacceptable.  A lot of Americans are out of work right now, due in part to the Chinese job drain.  Many of our largest corporations now have all their back-office workers in China because the labor there is so cheap.  Lou Dobbs has been discussing it lately on his &quot;Moneyline&quot; program, so if you get CNN you might enjoy tuning in and learning a little more about the problems it's causing.

What is most odious about it is that most businesses don't have any choice.  If I'm selling Universal Widgets and I use American labor to build them, my Widgets will cost more than the Widgets my competitors make, and people will buy the cheaper product.  Americans don't seem to worry too much about American jobs when they purchase cheaper products made elsewhere.  They only start complaining when they're the one's loosing their job to some Chinamen.  So as a Universal Widget manufacturer I have little choice.  I either price myself out of the market, or I send jobs to China.  What a tough decision.  Let's see here.  I can let my business go broke so that I no longer have a job, or I can send a few American jobs to China.  Hmmm, that's a tough one.

Consumers force manufacturers to go to the cheapest labor sources, and right now that's China, by a wide margin.

Many other factors affect production costs.  Even things like company culture affect costs (among other things).  The small high-end audio companies give up all the economies of scale that multi-national conglomerates enjoy.  If you buy an amp from Sony or Yamaha you'll likely find beautiful soldering on all the circuit boards, because they're wave soldered.  In comparison the hand soldering done with most limited production (relatively limited) high-end audio amplifiers makes them look shoddy.  The hand soldering is just as good as the wave soldering, IF it's done properly, but it's a lot more expensive.  Why would a high end company like CODA (for example) not wave solder their boards?  They can't, because the equipment is too expensive.  If they were selling thousands of products every month they could justify the expense, but their production volume is just too low.

Same thing with R&amp;D.  If we spend $40k developing a new product, and sell 40,000 of them, development only costs us $1/unit.  However, if we only sell 400 units our R&amp;D comes to $100/unit.  No choice other than to pass the difference on to the customer.

Then there is the status thing we see at the extreme high-end.  One high-end company has their thick faceplates made by the same company that makes the Oscars, because they feel that no one else in the country can give them the quality they need to be competitive in the high-end business.  Even their lowest priced products have faceplates that cost the manufacturer a minimum of $200.00.  That's HIS cost, not yours.  I'm very fond of craftsmanship in any form, so I actually like the fine fit and finish of such products, and don't mind paying for it.  That it adds greatly to the final cost of the product is a given.

Small high-end audio companies have a hard row to hoe.  Most are run by dedicated enthusiasts, and very few ever make a decent living in the business.  I've heard many of the smaller companies referred to as &quot;hobby businesses.&quot;  Paul Klipsch use to build his speakers in his basement.  One of the companies that has some of their products listed on the Stereophile &quot;Class-A&quot; list had only ONE full-time (and three part-time) employees) for nearly five years.  Most consumers have absolutely no idea how small some of the companies actually are, and the companies always try to look large and successful, so it's hard to tell if you're not an insider.

When you get to the larger companies (Harmon, Sherwood/Newcastle, Denon, etc.) things aren't that much better.  R&amp;D and licensing fees (Dolby, etc) are very expensive, and the shelf life of a new product is extremely short.  Consumers in this price range are heavily swayed by price, so a product's introductory price always has to drop quickly  It is often difficult to recoup the development cost of the top of the line products.  Like the tiny companies, these guys try to look as large and successful as possible, but many of them are struggling to stay in business (and have been for a couple of decades now).

The multi-nationals like Sony seem to be doing pretty well, but I have no first hand experience with any of them.

As for the quality of research done by the various companies, it certainly isn't a function of nationality.  Most serious research isn't surrounded by the kind of marketing hype that keeps the audio industry afloat, so it isn't highly visible.  Much of the most interesting work is being done by universities, and has no general visibility at all.  Some of the tiny high-end companies also do some very interesting work.  A new company in California is busy verifying transmission-line modeling algorithms, and another small outfit just came up with a way to make arc-proof ESL stators.  I don't think anyone or any nation has a lock on innovation.

Hope this helps,

RADAR O'Riley</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Okay, I wasn't going to reply, but Yamahaluver can't read english too well and just insulted me.

Did I ever say anything about race?

No, I said countries. Most countries, this one in particular, consists of several different races. I consider that one of the greatest strengths of this country.

You assume something I did not say.

Having said that, if you had read, I stated my own girlfriend is Chinese. You know where she goes to med school? John Hopkins. Arguably the best med school in the world. I can't truly prove it to you, but here is a link that many people thought was funny that was from early august where i describe my chinese girlfriend, its not in the first post, its in one of the subsequent posts.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum....=153089

(actually, I have several of our conversations on that board, cause she says some really funny things, like the time she wanted one large front speaker and one small one so they could fit better in her room, and i couldnt explain to her why that was not good, very funny conversation)

I am not going to allow you to get onto a soap box and say this to me.

I never said asians can't do science. My old boss is an Indian educated at IIT, one of the best engineering schools in the world.

I am completely aware that all races have the ability to produce people that are technically brilliant or technically poor or anywhere in between.

I was talking about capital investment.

If you read my posts, I never said can't, I said don't. They don't invest the same capital on high end technology as the U.S. does. The country. I never said white people, that is something you said. Maybe you are the racist. Maybe you read that in, because thats how you feel. I NEVER SAID WHITE PEOPLE. I even said I owned a Rotel that was made in China and the company was started by a Japanese man. Please learn how to read and comprehend what you are reading. I have nothing against those products. Nothing I own would be considered &quot;highend&quot; I have a denon, a marantz, 2 rotels, a h&amp;k, several panasonic pieces...

See thats the thing about the U.S. we get to attract all the best from throughout the world. By the way, last I checked, NASA is part of the U.S.A and Intel is an american company.

Are you going to tell me that China and India have the same free cashflow as the U.S. does to spend on advanced technology? If you do, you are not at all aware of the states of those economies. Have you been to those countries?

You know how much Japan invests into military technology, which is much more advanced than stereo equipment. Like nothing.

Read my posts, please, take your time if you have to, but read them, slowly, understand them, I have been very clear in subsequent posts so as to not cause confusion, by continually misquoting me and implying things that are not true, you are causing greater confusing and insulting me in the process.

Btw, my last girlfriend before this one, is Indian.

You said
&quot;You blasted Accuphase, do you have any knowledge about this company, I seriously doubt it, otherwise you wouldn?t have made that blanket statement.&quot;

I blasted Accuphase? Point to where I did that. Show me where. You can't, cause I didn't.

If the tone of this is insulting, too bad, you just called me racist, without any justification. You have shown that you will make accusations with no proof. You have no compunction about insulting other people without any provocation. I consider you to be a disgusting person.

And if your excuse is that you didn't take the time to read my posts, then its is your own fault. You don't make accusations of racism lightly. And I don't insult people on boards often, but you are way out of line.

Btw, I happen to have been paid as a musician. I have 3 guitars (2 Gibsons and a Fender) next to me right now. Before you get all high and mighty about stuff, you should at least know something about me. ####, for all you know, I could be asian and since i didnt make any remarks against asian people or even asian countries, it could easily be true. And if you want to use my name as proof that i am not asian, if i marry my girlfriend, our children will definitely be asian, and their last name will be german and they most likely have an english first name and a chinese middle name. So you can't even tell by a person's name, at least in this country, what race they are.

To the others,

I have no problems with a negative review of the Sunfire. I just thought some comments were not fair. I never said 9.1 was great. I said it was an innovation in response to someone saying there are no innovations in the product, it is one of a few that i listed. &nbsp;btw, if i understand it correctly, Yamaha has their own version of front effects channels, which is even older than sunfires.

Probably due to the length of the threads, somre parts got mixed up. I never said some things people think I did, and I didnt say that the Japanese companies, and I really wish I had said mass marketers instead, couldnt make &quot;highend&quot; stuff, which i always put in &quot;&quot;, I said they don't. I am not going by my definition of &quot;highend&quot; but the market. And the market says Krell, Levinson, Classe, etc is. Its just that most mass market firms are Japanese these days. The point about my girlfriend was that someone was very unfairly accusing me of being a racist.

As for applying for membership, I would have, I was just at work when I posted originally. I tend to read posts much more then I tend to post. I prefer to apply from home, where I can bring up my hotmail account so that I can see anything that is sent to me that is required for logging in.

Rich Wenzel</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Radar,

Unfortunately, my posts were not fully read and/or understood, I stated quite simply that U.S. and European companes can also, and do, as Rotel, ATI, Sherbourn, Outlaw, and a slew of othersa do, can produce in the China or other parts of asia.

I am an investment banker by trade, i have my degrees in economics and finance, I understand how labor costs impacted the U.S. There has been no debate about that. I can not understand why people are saying anything other than that. If anyone can show me where I said that the U.S. labor costs were equal to Chinas, I would be astounded. They are similar to Japan, and I did say that. But its ridiculous that very simple things that I have said have been misquoted and misconstrued to imply things I have never said. In fact, my original statement concerning production costs was this:

&quot;As for production costs, I don't see how Japanese products made in Korea or China have any wage benefits over US and European products made in Korea or China.&quot;

How that got misconstrued is beyoned me. Unfortunately, my posts were not understood. If everyone really read them, this problem would not have happened.

The U.S. is still the leading developer of high-end electronics, weapon systems, communications systems, computer chip design, weather systems, etc. etc. I never said other countries couldnt and didnt do it. I said we are still the leaders. We, the U.S. spend a lot more on this than any other country.

I am not going to go over this again.

I am sure you were asked to do this and it was not explained to you clearly what I had said, and I don't care anymore. I find the people here to be unfairly hostile.

Rich Wenzel</font>

 

[flintstone]

<font color='#000000'>Rich, I hope you have learned a lesson, this forum is not like other forums..here they gang jump you if you disagree with their opinions. Audio is not about listening for yourself on this forum, gene will tell you that even if you don't ask him. He will also tell you to go somewere else (another forum) if you persist on a view he does not agree with..as he has done with you.

I only come here every few months to catch up on the Yamaha news from the President of Yamaha Corp (Yamahaluver). I see you've met him.

Dave</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'>Thanks for the compliment Flintstone, I wish I was the president of Yamaha cause then the story would be different, I gurrantee you that.

However you are wrong in your assesment about Gene, hawke and others in this forum. They never tell you to take it elsewhere and they are the most unbiased of all the so-called forums around. You have the SVS slave HTF and there are many other unabashed promoters. The have their opinions like everyone else but they arent forcing it on anyone.

Most forums peddle garbage like Sunfire and SVS cause they are sponsored, you dont see that happening here.</font>

 

[gene]

<font color='#000000'>Flinstone/Dave;

You are correct, I have been known to ask people not to participate in our forums when they became hostile or rude, or if they suspect motives when there were none. &nbsp;I suppose my NY Italian blood still runs through my veins even though I have been a Floridian for more than half my life causing me to have a shorter fuse than the average person. &nbsp;However, I have no problem with people disagreeing with my viewpoints and expressing them intelligently here like Rich has done. &nbsp;
Audiouser expressed that he doesn't particularly care too much for Denon products and I have no problem with that. &nbsp;Denon products are not for everyone, no products are thankfully. &nbsp;It would be pretty boring if one or two ideally perfect products were all we had to choose from wouldn't it?

Rich; &nbsp;
I apologize if your experience here has not been a positive one. &nbsp;This is partly my fault for allowing this thread to continue after it went so far off topic that it became nothing more than point to point bickering (which unfortunately I helped to contribute too). &nbsp;I ask all members (myself included) to stay on the topics at hand, and make no further references to race or motives of people herein. &nbsp;

Despite some of the less than civil exchanges, there has been some good informational exchanges here and I hope we can continue down that path. &nbsp;Some of this dialog has insprired a few new ideas for me to write articles about. &nbsp;One being the history of Bob Carver, his engineering genius and his persecution by some of the audio press in the past for challenging high end audio...More on that later.

Dave; &nbsp;
No audio chat forum is perfect, and there are always going to be slugging matches that transpire between members. &nbsp;(This is an unfortunate result of interfacing with people when isolated from each other behind computer screens) However, we do attempt to minimize this as many other forums do as well and we will more carefully monitor in the future. &nbsp;I would certainly hope you come to Audioholics.com for more than just Yamaha information. &nbsp;Especially since we have a fairly large data base of different brands of product reviews and technical documents.</font>

 

[PaulF]

<font color='#000000'>Hey Rich,

You've provided an entertaining and worthwhile alternate opinion. I hope to see you keep posting here. I was just wondering about one aspact of your position.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The U.S. is still the leading developer of high-end electronics, weapon systems, communications systems, computer chip design, weather systems, etc. etc. I never said other countries couldnt and didnt do it. I said we are still the leaders. We, the U.S. spend a lot more on this than any other country.
</td></tr></table>

Perhaps you can answer this as an investment banker. Does the US measure this in absolute dollars spent? If so does it take into account the substantially lower labor rates in Korea and China? I have been to both countries and am fairly certain that even professionals such as engineers are paid significantly less than their US counterparts. Therefore if one man-hour of engineering time costs say $80 (pay + benefits) in the US, but only $10 in China, is the difference in cost taken into consideration when calculating how much is spent on high tech innovation?

Gene,

You mentioned earlier in this post that perhaps you should participate less in the forum and let your reviews speak for themselves. Well there are quite a number of audio sites doing just that already, to me it makes me feel like the reviewers are unapproachable. Certainly it's an option, but I think you (and the other staff) participating is part of what makes Audioholics tick.</font>

 

[_audiouser_]

<font color='#000000'>Ritch,</font>

 

[_audiouser_]

<font color='#000000'>sorry for the double post

Ritch,

I think your first post was great. &nbsp;My bad, yes you didn't say 9.1 was great, you said it was an innovation. &nbsp;I hope you keep posting here as you do have good content to add. &nbsp;I still wish things didn't morph of topic as some of these things have nothing to do with how the unit sounds. You have been the one who's walking down that path, lead by Yamahaluver (from the outside looking in).

I still think Steve was right in his original review and the Sunfire is less than a stellar value, my opinion. &nbsp;One thing about dealing with a small vendor (like Sunfire) that I think needs more attention is quality control and unit to unit constancy.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Hi Rich,

&quot;… How that got misconstrued is beyond me. Unfortunately, my posts were not understood. If everyone really read them, this problem would not have happened.&quot; - Rich

Believe me Rich, I know how you feel.  It's happened to me on a number of forums, including this one.  Sometimes people &quot;misunderstand&quot; intentionally (take a look at AA Cable or AR Cable for an abundance of examples), but I don't think that was the case here.  Your sentence a bit hard to read, and the topic was (apparently) a bit heated.  Such things are just a way of life on the forums.  It stinks, but it's hard to communicate clearly in writing for some reason.  No matter how clear you are, someone will usually read it wrong.  If you are too thorough in your explanations people are likely to see it as condescending.  These things keep me away form the forums most of the time, and if they really bug you, that's probably the best way to handle them (at least that's what I've found to work for me).

&quot;The U.S. is still the leading developer of high-end electronics, weapon systems, communications systems, computer chip design, weather systems, etc. etc. I never said other countries couldn't and didn't do it. I said we are still the leaders. We, the U.S. spend a lot more on this than any other country. &quot; - Rich

HEAR, HEAR!  (I wish you could see the big smile that put on my face.)

A lot of our tax dollars are wasted, but there is still enough left to buy the best minds available, and we make good use of them.  Those who are involved in that type of work are quite proud of the results of their effort, and all I can say is &quot;thanks for noticing.&quot;

&quot;I am sure you were asked to do this and it was not explained to you clearly what I had said, and I don't care anymore. I find the people here to be unfairly hostile.&quot; - Rich

I was asked, and my comments weren't aimed directly at any one person or their comments.  I too misread your statement (my expectations may have been biased), so I made the same mistake others made, but let's hope I didn't come across as hostile.  If I did, I'm very sorry.  (I can be VERY hostile at times.  Just ask Gene.  He's been on the receiving end and knows what a jerk I can be at times.)  I don't know how you managed to end up butting heads with these guys, and I don't really care to read all the posts to figure it out.  This kind of thing happens all the time (on most public Web forums) and it is usually petty and meaningless, and the result of some simple misunderstanding.  I hate it, and understand how you feel.  Let me ask Gene a question...

GENE ------------
How did all this get started?
(What I see makes it look like Rich has been treated pretty badly, and I KNOW it was not intentional.  What happened?)

Stick around for a bit longer, Rich.  I'm not about to read all the previous drivel, but I'd like for others to have a chance to clarify their positions and feelings on this the way you have.  I see your point, agree, and understand how you feel, and I can't believe that guys like Gene and Clint won't see it too.  Hostility is common in audio circles for some reason, but this ruckus seems petty and trivial, and I think we can sort it out.  Are you too fed up with it to try?  (It's OK if you are, and I wouldn't blame you.)

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

R.O.</font>

 

[Tee-HTF]

<font color='#000000'><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most forums peddle garbage like Sunfire and SVS cause they are sponsored, you dont see that happening here. </td></tr></table>

Okay some stuff i agree with you on Yamahaluver, but just because a site may sponser a product does not mean it's garbage. I know that owners of certain products can be over the top sometimes and cause views like this and cause a decent product to get bashed.

Funny some people think Yamaha products are garbage , i think they make great products. Sometimes we can all have a biased views on products or brands.</font>

 

[steve]

<font color='#000000'>I guess I don't understand why some of you think Rich was treated badly.  We never badgered him, just offered a second opinion.  It wasn't my intention, or anyone elses intention to insult Rich and I don't think we did.

Rich, sorry for the misunderstanding.  We'd like it if you stuck around.

Some time soon, I'd like to edit this thread and delete some of this sidebar commentaries and try to get us back to the debate/discussion on the Sunfire products.</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#000080'>(Side note: Personally I think its good policy to never edit posts unless they are vulgar.)

Rich, stick around I think you'll find future posts &nbsp;bit less heated. I for one, enjoyed your input and want more people like you in these forums to provide different perspectives and balance.

As a friend of mine loves to say: &quot;It's all good...&quot;</font>

 

[Yamahaluver]

<font color='#0000FF'>Rich,

I never called you a racist, just wanted to show to you that others are capable of greats just like the US. Japanese audio indutry has produced all time greats just like others and continue to do so. Just go visit the R&amp;D centers of Yamaha, SONY, Pioneer, Accuphase and others and you will change your opinion. However, if your mind is clouded with bias about the Japanese and the rest and you have a superiority complex about the US, I cant help you there. Your statements sadly indicate so as you blanketly state that US is No.1, rest be dammned, their contribution is unworthy compared to US. No matter that the Japanse have made fantastic equipment, the DSP chip is made by Yamaha themselves from data collected by their unique patented quad point array mic, no acknowldgement of SONY's contribution to the CD technology, doesnt matter that Pioneer and Denon have made some great audio and HT equipment, Yamaha pianos and musical intruments grace the best concert halls across the globe, these acheivments seem to be all trivial to you. I guess you feel the same way about the Japanse auto industry. The Japanse before WW-II made some innovative products like the Zeo fighter which was the first to use radial enigne from Mitsubishi &nbsp;and was rated to be the fastest plane. There are so many others and the list goes on but only if one has an open mind to register it. You talked about Japanse militairy industry but you forget the restictions imposed on them and the Germans.

I have nothing against you personaly but you seem to get flustered if I defend my opinion and accuse me of calling you a racist which I never meant to do, in this case, it is your grasp of the English language that is seriously lacking. I hope this will clear up all your misunderstandings and you will stay here. After all, this is a forum where we give our opinions and counter opinions and sometimes as humans we debate and tend to get carried away. Would be nice to see you here and look forward to your posts.


To the rest:

Since I have been declared the un-official president of Yamaha(Yabba Dabba Doo), I have to declare that I would be very busy as all presidents and CEO of the world's largest audio company should be. Therefore my postings will be be way less frequent probably null and so would be my advice, I am sure this would make a lot of people here in this forum truly happy and I am happy for them.

Those needing Yamaha or other Japanese gear advice can PM me and I would be glad to help you out.

Been very nice here but I guess my usefullness has outgrown here if so many here &nbsp;have so much negative thoughts against me so there are times one has to take a back seat and that time has come for me now.</font>

 

[Eric]

<font color='#000000'>Yamahaluvr,

I’ve been watching this thread and, honestly, a bit hesitant to post in it due to the ripe political theme that is prevalent in it. However…

I think it would be a bad thing if you left the community. Although I don’t share your exuberance on Yamaha’s equipment, you do offer good advice to folks new to AV both here and on the *******. BTW: you forgot Denon in your list of outstanding Japanese manufactures

 

Don’t take what you read here personally. As Hawke has already pointed out, the internet is an impersonal media. Folks say a lot of things behind a computer that they may choose to rephrase in person.

Edit:

Do you really trust me to not let DENON run amuck in the community. Think about Yamaha’s market share if your not here to keep me in check!</font>