Summertime JBL refurbishment the whole sound system!

[Dolby CP-200]

It starts here this summertime after just purchasing the DCX2496 and the Alesis RA300 which will now slowly take over the helm from my vintage Marartz 1050 and 1030, its going to be the most exciting sound system project since the installation of the JBL Control 1 array which started last summertime 2006.

Anyway here’s a rather long description on how its working presently and over the next few months I’ll slowly show the new audio equipment being added on.


Well I’m kinder getting into the DIE HARD theme as its not to far away now from blowing audiences though the back wall of the cinema again!

This was a wild sequence one of many I must say that jolted with a slight bump in the centre channel as the glass shutters under the hail of machine gunfire, and drops to the office floor. Not bad for sounding for the ole JBL Control 5.

Bass is produced over the three-screen with lots of directional cues that ping pong side to side effortlessly without putting enormous strain on the ears, db level was 85dbA on peak most of the time, bass was around 92dbC.

(removed) Yeah, being shot at from two directions and being slightly confused glass is tinkering all around! I must be noted that DIE HARD has (monaural surrounds) only not split-surrounds.

Debris falling around just moments after the roof was blow to utter smithereens as there’s a huge KANOOM on the (monaural surrounds) with deep bass. The surrounds that where turned on due DIE HARD where sidewalls and left and right half on the back wall for that cinema feeling!

Note: audio mixer all the low pass sub bass outputs pass though here including LFE.1.
The first line, line 1 has the left and right sub bass which is summed and then outputted via the single line out.
Line 2 has the centre low pass sub bass which is then outputted via the single line out.
Line 3 has the low pass sub bass which is summed from the surrounds or split-surrounds its then outputted via the single line out.

Line 5 has the LFE.1 passing into the mixer all the channels are balanced with each line inputs as well monitoring the level via the VU meter to make sure the level never exceeds 0dbvu other than that the level of the sub bass amplifier has been set for a comfortable room level with all the impact. The main fader level on the mixer can be adjusted or I can trim a few db off each channel if it’s too overwhelming especially the LFE.1 which can be very unpredictable, not in this home cinema!

Note: the DSR-70 Here I can control the level of the surrounds output and with its main fader level controlling sidewall surrounds and smaller trim levels for centre which controls the centre back and rear which controls the height surrounds. Pre sub bass out is located on the rear.

Note: the VSP-200 this plugged into the outputs from the KRF-X9050D THX its controlling the level of fronts and with the push of the button into Dolby Pro-Logic it will divide the centre phantom from left and right and send it to the centre channel while the remaining centre channel that is play directly from the KRF-X9050D THX which passes into the DSP-100.

Note: the KRF-X9050D THX this is where the main decoding takes place from Mono stereo Dolby stereo and Pro-Logic II Dolby digital 5.1 and dts 5.1. Main fader is also controlled from the KRF-X9050D THX. Inputs as follows.

Video 1 is for analogue input for Hi-Fi VCR which I’ll talk more about later.
Video 2 is for SONY DVP-S336 DVD
Video 3 is for Pioneer CLD 1750 laserdisc player
DVD is for Pioneer DV-525 DVD
Aux input is for Cello DR-810 DVD-RW

Pioneer CLD 2950 laserdisc player is off line at the moment.

Ferguson Video star Hi-Fi stereo VCR, now if you can see it here in this picture here is being used as an audio limiter, that’s right I was tight for budget at the time and since I don’t use the Hi-Fi stereo VCR that much I thought it would be a good opportunity to use the audio limiter to not only protect the output signal from the surrounds from going into clip! It could sever as a good partnership with surrounds and it performs quite well.

So I can not only take the levels up on the surrounds via the DSR-70 it would make softer scenes sound fantastically involving than before, scenes like in Star Trek Nemesis really surround in the softer moments and the louder ones tamed without any distraction.

This was also the case with DIE HARD so get re-plugging if you really what to enjoy films at home!

Note: the optional active crossover this discounted for the time being, but I’m sure I’ll figure out new role for it to play within the sound system or something other. Its crossover points are fixed at from 20Hz to 500Hz and from 500Hz to 20Khz, the levels are variable as well.

Note: I have several EQ still in line that will be eventually changed over to multiples of DEQ2496 for the sound chain with 1/3 octave EQ.

Note: the Marartz 1050 x1 this powers the centre channel and the centre front JBL Control 5 while centre back surround powers the JBL Control 1 x2.

Note: Alesis RA300, it starts here this summertime with a complete refurbishment of the amplification with newer and higher powered amplifiers, when I reach x3 Alesis RA300 within a few weeks I’ll consider the change over to the fully active crossover mode and let the DCX2496 take care of all the safety limits of the front loudspeakers. Its presently set-up to drive the left and right JBL Control 5 in full band mode via the DCX2496.

Note: Marartz 1050 x2 this is powering the sidewall surrounds in A mode which drives the x2 JBL Control 1 there wired in series and the amp is boosted just a little bit more for dynamic DIE HARD explosions! B mode controls the back half JBL Control 1 which is placed on the outer side of the centre back surrounds which are placed in the centre half of the room.

While in split-surround mode or monaural surrounds like in DIE HARD both A and B are turned ON to really surround the room with sonic impact.

Note: Marartz 1030 x1 this only powers the height surround with x2 JBL Control 1 placed up high, its performs best with split-surrounds its signal comes from the DSR-70 which passes though an EQ same goes for the centre back and the sidewall surrounds with there own EQ as well as master EQ for input only that passes though to the DSR-70 main inputs.

Note: you can see the sub bass that is parked on top of the JBL 4645 that’s been discounted and I’ve used its onboard power amplifier to drive the JBL 4645. The 12” driver that fits into this unit Eltax A R-12 is tucked away safely.

Well I hope this has answered a few questions and it’s about to get a whole lot better this year, it starts here.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

 

[Audioholics]

What exactly are "height surrounds"?

You certainly enjoy your hobby - and I'm glad for that - but this has got to be the most frankenstein system I've ever seen. It's fun to add tons and tons of speakers and surround yourself with tons of audio, but make sure you don't assume this is somehow better than a true Dolby Digital system in a moderately-treated room.

Accurate sound is attempting to regain what happened on the dubbing stage. You can't do that with multiple speakers in a small room - dubbing stages are rather large and very very dead. Adding multiple arrays in a small room results in terribly muddy sound that gets progressively worse as you add more speakers.

Still - it's certainly fun to tinker - just please don't recommend this type rig to others on this forum as "best practices" or anything of the sort... I'd recommend a straight Bose Acoustimass system over this one. Seriously.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Clint

I hear you loud and clear but the deal with True Dolby or even Plus! Is where is the software I don’t see any film supporting Dolby 7.1 on in the DVD stores yet? I’d say when they have a good steady supply of Dolby 7.1 on the shelves after a few years then I’ll buy into this format war of Blu-Ray VS HD-DVD, not until it’s been around here in the UK for a few years and with only one format standing!

Now if you care to look and put on you’re thinking cap! And go though this again, wait a second I have a better solution just dig out a Dolby Pro-Logic processor and make sure you have matching surround arrays going around the room otherwise timbre matching will be very problematic to EQ!

Now if you connect the inputs up from the AVR or AVP and send the outputs from the Dolby Pro-Logic with left for sidewall centre for centre back right for sidewall and rear output for “height surrounds” you’ll need few extra amplifiers mind you.

Or you do it the fast and furious way! Just get a AVR with Dolby Pro-Logic and send the outputs from the first AVR that supports Dolby dts 5.1 or other and send the surrounds to the input on the second AVR unit and then send the outputs from the AVR internal amplification too…

Left front to (left sidewall) centre front to (centre back) right front to (right sidewall) rear surround to (height surround) and you’re done fast easy and ready to explore a new exciting home cinema experience. The above works just like how the Professional Dolby SA-10 works which basically is a striped down modified Dolby CP-45 cinema processor.

The only thing Dolby missed when doing Dolby-EX for the home was the extra channel that is supported on the professional Dolby SA-10 now go and start some re-plugging and happy listening.

 

[gmichael]

Why do I get the feeling that I've seen these pictures before somewhere.

 

[Audioholics]

I'm sure this is fun, but it's absolute bunk for accurate sound reproduction - especially in a room this small. What you have inveted here is a Phil Spectre-style "wall of surround".

You should patent it - but don't believe for a second it has anythig to do with accurately decoding 7.1 or making up for some apparent loss in current soundtracks just cause they don't have discrete stereo surround back channels (somethin even your rig won't fix).

Surround back (EX) was designed to allow for flyovers that went directly from the front speakers to the rear of the room - nothing more. One or two speakers doen't matter and it most certainly doesn't need to be in stereo given today's soundtracks which do not have stereo surround information.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

LOL, Tell you what save you’re money and fly on over we’ll see how impressed you’ll be after watching hearing and feeling Apollo 13 dts THX laserdisc shall we?

Positioning is spot I’ve sorted that believe me.

And besides after hearing so, so many lame 5.1 in the high street home cinema stores who don’t really know the meaning of surround! Surround loudspeakers should be assigned in a horseshoe configuration why, is that too hard for the average Joe with more money to throw around and yet he’s only got a pitiful 2 or 4 placed on the walls! And with seating in the worse position, this is why I get feed up reading posts where do I place my surrounds how high, its enough to make me swing from the chandelier!

So I challenge anyone to pop on over no talk just pop on over, and I shall entertain with food and drink.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Also the positioning and the height of the side and rear wall surrounds was a lot of trial and error on paper if they had been placed too high off the floor and even thou I can tilt them downwards it wouldn’t have been enough when seated the sidewall and rear wall surround really get my attention with a whiplash effect!

Heights adds atmosphere and even the odd part of the mix in Apollo 13 comes from overhead when they fire the LEM engine for a short burn the voices echo from above and the move downwards creating a high tension sequence in the film on side 3 chapter 43.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Step by step and its slowly coming together with the amplification while the two Alesis RA300 are presently running the LCR and centre back surround. Once I install the third Alesis RA300 I’ll then set-up the x3 Alesis RA300 with the LCR in active crossover mode LF HF.

Then on the fourth instalment which would be around early August I’ll set it up with left sidewall and right sidewall surrounds by then I’ll have two Marartz 1050 amplifiers offline, I might reconfigure the Marartz 1050 with centre back surround and height surround, temporally of course. The fifth instalment of the Alesis RA300 would be late August, I’ll then use that for the centre back surround and partly the height surround for a short while.

On the sixth instalment around early September I’ll use the Alesis RA300 for powering the height surrounds and the other one to do the centre back surrounds.

Seventh instalment I’d use the Alesis RA300 for left and right half back surrounds which work with the side surrounds and are manually turned on for films that mostly carry monaural surrounds, so there be playing with the sidewall surrounds and with split-surrounds its just one push of the button and it becomes an awesome surround experience.

 

[Rowdy S13]

Wow, so you basicly just questioned Clints knowledge of how surround sound works? I do believe he does this for a living, so maybe you should just listen to his advice. One think Id think about if I was you, who else has a set up like youres? Ive never seen one with so many surrounds or height surrounds, maybe that should tell you something.

Sean

 

[MDS]

I have no problem with people being interested in tinkering until they feel things sound great but I have to agree with Clint. With so many devices processing the signal you have no idea what is actually going on and the result is likely not even close to the 'intent of the mastering engineer' as so many strive for in their listening room.

If you take the discrete surrounds from a DD 5.1 mix and then further process them with ProLogic to create 5 more left and right channels how does that make it 'better'? All you've done is taken sound meant for the surrounds and further divided it into 5 additional channels - all of which were synthesized by an algorithm and bear no definitive relationship to the original.

But hey, Phil Spector is world renowned for his Wall of Sound recording technique (now tainted by allegations of murder). Maybe someday we'll see the Dolby CP-200 system in an A/V magazine.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

LOL, what do you think Dolby-EX is hmm, a "cake pate" for putting film onto!? No its basically a Dolby CP-45 hence Pro-Logic. Oh I get it you’re just in a funny ole mood tonight because some poor Brit who lives in a small town called Bournemouth, figured it out. Yes maybe it will be in some magazine.

And did it ever occur to you that there was more to it, and why else would someone add 7.1? Where’s the software where I don’t see, and if I can improve on this small home cinema with simplest of items and even if you came over you would say WOW! and if I showed how it was working you’ll be stubbed for while over week!

 

[highfihoney]

I have no idea what would inspire a person to jump all over this man over the way he chooses to run his system,he did not ask for advice nor did he give advice telling anybody to run their system as he is doing.

From the way i read this thread he was only stating his future plans for his personal system & showing ongoing upgrades,why not let him have his fun

 

[Audioholics]

From the way i read this thread he was only stating his future plans for his personal system & showing ongoing upgrades,why not let him have his fun

That would be fine - a few different threads, however have some bad info and recommendations that we politely questioned... then received responses that were equally incorrect or unhelpful... so the goal is simply to make sure that anyone reading understands this is all good fun, but not necessarily "helpful" to getting good sound.

None of the responses were akin to "oh I know, I'm just having fun" - but more like "you don't understand what you're talking about; my room sounds fantastic and beats a dedicated 7.1 system."

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Hey Clint,

Didn't Sony have a dsp that did close to the same thing with 5 speakers. If I remember correctly they would make it sound like there were speakers in between your exsisting speakers.

Don't remember it sounding good in my room,
SBF1


p.s. Too complicated for me but by all means let him have his fun! It's people like this who end up inventing something cool someday.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Why do I get the feeling that I've seen these pictures before somewhere.

Hi g,

I noticed that also...

SBF1

 

[majorloser]

p.s. Too complicated for me but by all means let him have his fun! It's people like this who end up inventing something cool someday.

Or die broke and alone.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Hey Clint,

Didn't Sony have a dsp that did close to the same thing with 5 speakers. If I remember correctly they would make it sound like there were speakers in between your exsisting speakers.

Don't remember it sounding good in my room,
SBF1


p.s. Too complicated for me but by all means let him have his fun! It's people like this who end up inventing something cool someday.

You’re thinking of Todd-AO and the SDDS 8 process. And that is real easy to hook up all you need is two matching Dolby Pro-Logic processors and matching five loudspeakers for the fronts, it’s really easy to do.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Early this afternoon I’ve set some small changes to three of the two dynamic EQ that are on the DCX2496 one is for inputs, the other is for outputs. So what I changed was the frequency at 80hz with…

Left and right channels 80Hz +7db Q 0.3 threshold -50db
Centre channel 80Hz +8db Q 0.1 threshold -30db
Each one above is set with, attack at 10m/s release at 501m/s

The centre channel has been delayed for weeks now at 2.55m 7.42m/s and performs very well with this afternoons feature The Mummy (1999). Sound that is usually placed off to the left or right have left centre right centre halves, and with the delay made it so easy to hear those placed off to the left and right.

When Rick throws a bag onto a table with rather jumpy Evelyn, and along with exactly clear dialogue ADR, Rick, opens up his assorted weaponry poach from centre too left channel it clearly unwraps and while following its detail made it so involving. While checking his revolvers and sticking them into his side holster placed around him, again its clearly heard. With the delay turned off it becomes slightly difficult to hear, it tends to overlap a kind of shift to the left>.

The rest of the film is still very surprising with terrific split-surrounds that where played with centre back and height. Also I decided to change the outer side JBL Control 1 that are placed to left and right on the rear wall and re-plug them with a Y lead and send the output from the EQ that controls the centre back surround and plug the loudspeaker leads up to the Marartz 1050. The last remaining channel on the Alesis RA300 is powering the middle centre back surrounds.

As soon as I get around to installing the surround amplifiers after I’ve finished with the fronts I might decide on a new plan, hence subject to change at anytime, well I’m only human.

Sub bass extension and LFE.1 via the JBL 4645 was thundering due the last part of the film, this would be where wall doors start closing down the rumbling was tickling my ear as well as pressing on me, kinder felt like the EMPIRE Leicester square. Not once did I see the Alesis RA300 go into clip but the amount of bass mid with the 80Hz boost on the dynamic EQ did a good task on the end credits with good percussion.

Yes I like the DCX2496 it surly makes a sound improvement, its well worth the wait.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

A few nights back I set the levels of the matching JBL control 5 LCR with the centre channel EQ from centre channel first at output on B channel on the DCX2496.

3.04 KHz -0.7db
4.02 KHz -1.4db
5.08 KHz -1.7db
6.03 KHz -0.9db
8.14 KHz -0.8db

I noted the SPL level and frequency response via the RCA phone that was connected from the SPL to the RTA display Technics SH-8055 and all looked well with a flat line, SPL was set to db A weighting for the high frequency test with wideband pink noise.

Next I played some simple dialogue in down mix mode, this is where its all sent to the left and right channels only! Noted the difference and then switched back to Dolby 5.1 up mix mode! Noted the difference was rather high on the left and right and made some simple adjustments to the left and right with a -10db on left and right that is set on the DCX2496.

While this started to sound ok at first I did however notice the left and right was a bit bright sounding so I added some EQ on left and right at.

1.60 KHz -0.5db
2.03 KHz -0.1db
3.18 KHz -0.9db
4.02 KHz -0.9db
5.08 KHz -1.7db
6.03KHz -0.9db
8.14 KHz -0.9db
9.06 KHz -4.0db

100Hz +0.3db
161Hz -0.1db

Thou these settings might be of some use with someone having the same unit I would say the settings might be useless, well its all about trail and error, and thou its less louder now and with greater clearness of the centre channel from music dialogue and sound effects that are placed in the centre channel and don’t forget the centre channel is delayed it was a higher number the week before but for now its at.
2.35m
6.84m/s

Phase is also been adjusted to compensate for the three-screen when bass is sent to all channels, so I played a few openings from a few films “Catwoman” during the first few moments of the opening titles there’s a nice deep bass note that’s sent to LCR and LFE.1 as well, but I was the centre channel that needed some attention because now it was out of phase with the rest of the three-screen.

Setting the phase by going step by step though the different settings, I finally settled with 180° which placed the three-screen channel in-phase and when set with the LFE.1 it adds greater depth not to mention sub bass extension.


Well looks like I’m going to hath to delay the rack system for a few more weeks, no matter I will settle on the Samson rack, its just I didn’t realize my direct debit card account was slightly overdrawn and thou I have just managed to get it within a few pounds near credit its going to hath to wait until late next month. Also I was thinking about finishing the amplifier array off first and then buy the a few racks and rack this all up in one go.

So there it is.

Note with this screen capture, the scene where Obi-Wan walks calmly towards Darth Maul, and where Maul, uses the force to throw box towards the control panel that opens the doors. The sound is heard in the centre channel as well as on the right channel, with the delay setting on the centre channel where it simply makes it easier to hear the right channel thus creating a smoother front stage as well as keeping the centre channel information loud and clear.

Even when Darth Maul, inhales you can hear the subtlety of it. Oh yes I like the new DCX2496 and the new matching amplifies, truly indispensable.