Suggestions subwoofer for music in a 16x20x10

[gus_patino]

I need some recommendations for a sub.
I have a pair of PSB T6 connected to a HK 990.
Budget $500 to $1000.
I will be using it to listen to music, I don't care about the sound in movies.

Music will be mainly classical, jazz, electronic ambient (Vangelis type) and some rock.

The living room has two entrances, hard wood floor, 16 width x 20 length x10 height.

Let me know if you need any more info for your recommendations.

Thanks.

 

[timoteo]

Dual Emotiva X-Ref 10" subs will do great for music in that space. ($800)

Or

Single Emotiva X-Ref 12" ($600)

Or

SVS: SB-12 NSD (Sealed 12") $650

Or

Little over budget but had to throw this out...HSU ULS-15!!!!! ($1100) If you can swing the extra cash then get this sub, hands down the best on this list.

Ooooorr with <$1000 you could go DIY & build yourself a sub that would be pretty unbelievable. Just depends on if you can build an enclosure to spec out of MDF. If DIY interests you then let us know because that's a whole other topic!!

 

[shadyJ]

I would go for something like the Hsu VTF3 mk4 or Hsu VTF15h. The ULS-15 would be great to, but in a medium sized or larger room, I would much prefer the greater output of the VTF15h over the finesse of the ULS or a Rythmik F15. I would definitely not get the Emotivas or the SB12, because if you ever wanted to let your system blaze, these smaller sealed subs just aren't going to do that. Btw, I love Vangelis too, and I would say his big sound calls for some big output, I'm talking about tunes like The Mask Movement 5 or The Drums of Guagamela. On the other hand, if you only listen to stuff at modest volume levels, maybe a sealed 12" would suffice. If that were the case, I would go for a Rythmik F12 over the Emotiva or SVS sub.

 

[theJman]

An Epik Empire or dual Legends might be something to consider as well.

 

[timoteo]

I rarely recommend sealed subs these days & normally my first recommendations are the VTF-3 or VTF-15H (shoot I own the VTf-15H & love it). But to me it sounded like he wants very clean & modest output subs within a budget. For a strictly music only system I still stand behind the subs I listed. I did however forget to mention the Rythmik F12 which is a really good sealed sub '& would agree that the servo on that would make for a clean sound.

If the OP can swing the extra money I still say the ULS-15 is the best option but it is out of the budget. So second choice would probably go to the Rythmik F12 then to the SVS SB-12NSD then the Emotivas. Epiks aren't known for being the cleanest sounding subs so I wouldn't recommend them for this application.

 

[Ricci]

Vangelis is amazing...That's all I got.

 

[hidefguy]

My room is 12 x 24 x 7. Some people think i'm crazy but i'm about to fork over $3200 on a pair of Dynaudio SUB 600's. I'm a little scared that the Velodyne's and Internet Direct subs won't blend in well with the speed of my Dynaudio Focus speakers and might be too boomy (especially with music) for my taste. I also realize that the dual Dynaudios won't even touch the output of the SVS PB-13 Ultras which would cost me the same price. One edge the Dynaudio has is resale value. Seems to hold up better.

 

[shadyJ]

You should be more afraid of the Dynaudio subs than many of the Velodyne or internet direct subs. Forking out 3.2k for two of them is crazy. I recommend you do more research on what determines subwoofer's sound characteristics before you hand over your money to a dealer who is obviously making a fat commission on those things.

 

[theJman]

Not sure I've ever heard anyone complain of a discernible clarity issue with the Epik's, so you may not want to summarily dismiss them.

The living room has two entrances, hard wood floor, 16 width x 20 length x10 height.

The SB12 is really nice, but 3200 cubic feet is an awful lot of space for a single one, and depending upon the size of those two entrances it could be worse. You can get duals for $1150 though, so that might be worth investigating if your budget allows.

 

[hidefguy]

You should be more afraid of the Dynaudio subs than many of the Velodyne or internet direct subs. Forking out 3.2k for two of them is crazy. I recommend you do more research on what determines subwoofer's sound characteristics before you hand over your money to a dealer who is obviously making a fat commission on those things.

This is what I have been told by a local Dynaudio dealer when comparing their subs to Velodyne, or ID subs:

"Theres a couple ways to look at it. Manufacture a moderately good driver and control its definicies with a servo control, OR make an incredible driver that is linear and accurate and doesnt need a servo by design. Dynaudio chooses the latter of the two."

I guess it's a matter of preference, and I personally prefer the sub to do better with music, and OK with H/T. I guess for most people it's the opposite.

 

[Grador]

This is what I have been told by a local Dynaudio dealer when comparing their subs to Velodyne, or ID subs:

"Theres a couple ways to look at it. Manufacture a moderately good driver and control its definicies with a servo control, OR make an incredible driver that is linear and accurate and doesnt need a servo by design. Dynaudio chooses the latter of the two."

I guess it's a matter of preference, and I personally prefer the sub to do better with music, and OK with H/T. I guess for most people it's the opposite.

That sounds very salespitchy. Of course a man selling you something can give you a reason to buy his product, but the overall effects of the different 'design' styles are what are important in the end, and what you should press for when presented with a claim like that.

I have heard none of the subs in question, so I will not try to tell you what the best option will be, just a a word of caution.

 

[hidefguy]

Thanks for the caution Grador. I forgot to mention that he is a Velodyne dealer as well as many other models. Just his personal opinion based on everything he has heard. Everyone has different goals in this hobby

 

[shadyJ]

This is what I have been told by a local Dynaudio dealer when comparing their subs to Velodyne, or ID subs:

"Theres a couple ways to look at it. Manufacture a moderately good driver and control its definicies with a servo control, OR make an incredible driver that is linear and accurate and doesnt need a servo by design. Dynaudio chooses the latter of the two."

I guess it's a matter of preference, and I personally prefer the sub to do better with music, and OK with H/T. I guess for most people it's the opposite.

As far as home theater vs music application, if a sub does poorly at one, it will do poorly at the other. One of these days I need to sit down to write the definitive internet rant about this matter.

As far as what your dealer said, I have a hard time believing that the Dynaudio driver is exceptional. Dynaudio gives a few details about its driver (Magnesium Silicate Polymer diaphragm, double magnet assembly and die-cast aluminum driver basket are the only specifics Dynaudio offer on it). Compare what Dynaudio makes available about their sub driver with JL Audio says about theirs. Quite honestly, I would be surprised if the Dynaudio subs could outperform the sealed 12"s from Emotiva or SVS, let alone come close to JL Audio. Btw, the only ID subs that uses a servo system is Rythmik.

Most of these ID sub makers have a 30 day full refund policy if you are not satisfied with their product. If your dealer is confident in his product, maybe he will let you have a home audition of one of these Dynaudio subs. Get a decent ID sub and compare it directly to the Dynaudio sub. Some subs you might look at are the Rythmik F15HP and Hsu ULS-15. I believe either of those will keep up with Dynaudio sub and offer more output and extension while costing much less. If you really don't want to take any chances, get a Funk Audio 18.0 with a TC sounds LMS 5400 driver which is widely regarded as the best subwoofer driver in the world. I think that one sub will laugh at any two Dynaudio subs by any performance metric, and it will still cost less (although I don't believe Funk Audio offers a return policy like the others).

 

[Irvrobinson]

As far as home theater vs music application, if a sub does poorly at one, it will do poorly at the other. One of these days I need to sit down to write the definitive internet rant about this matter.

I agree. I've never understood classical speakers versus rock speakers, or now HT versus music subs. Great performance is universal.

 

[hidefguy]

ShadyJ

Thank you for your input on this matter. I really can't add anything to the argument of music vs. home theatre subs, as I have not sampled many at all.

But since I am a Dynaudio speaker owner, other Dyn owners have told me that the speed of Dyn speakers is hard to integrate with many subs, and the Dyn sub is a safe bet, but not one that would guarantee even 30% of the ouput of ID subs, but I guess this is where distortion and boominess can come into play. As far as safer goes, it could be a bunch of BS for all I know

I do see your point though as far as the cost. Considering the safer bet, i'm still reluctant to dish out 3K for a pair, when I paid 4K for my entire Dyn Focus surround set in the used market. Just doing my homework at this point.

 

[templemaners]

other Dyn owners have told me that the speed of Dyn speakers is hard to integrate with many subs

Huh? How exactly are they faster? Sounds like a bunch of audiophile nonsense to me.

They must be using the same science and logic as this.

 

[shadyJ]

ShadyJ

Thank you for your input on this matter. I really can't add anything to the argument of music vs. home theatre subs, as I have not sampled many at all.

But since I am a Dynaudio speaker owner, other Dyn owners have told me that the speed of Dyn speakers is hard to integrate with many subs, and the Dyn sub is a safe bet, but not one that would guarantee even 30% of the ouput of ID subs, but I guess this is where distortion and boominess can come into play. As far as safer goes, it could be a bunch of BS for all I know

I do see your point though as far as the cost. Considering the safer bet, i'm still reluctant to dish out 3K for a pair, when I paid 4K for my entire Dyn Focus surround set in the used market. Just doing my homework at this point.

A few points: sometimes deep bass can be mistaken for boomy bass.

The Dynaudio speakers shouldn't be difficult to integrate with any other sub unless they had a particularly bizarre low frequency roll-off. Also, if they roll off high, they might have a hard time integrating with a sub, but that would be due to localization. You can get around that buy getting multiple subs and co-locating them with the speakers.

Since you are in Chicago, you might give Mark Seaton a call. His Submersive subs are supposed to be excellent, some of the very best that can be had. I would bet they would have less overhang and lower group delay than the Dynaudio subs and thus a 'tighter' sound. They will also have waaay more output and extension too.

 

[hidefguy]

I forgot about Seaton. I remember people around here talking about him a while back. I will look into that

Speaking of co-locating subs, I do realize that putting them side by side (or stacked) will give you higher dbl's, but I was planning on putting them near each edge of my plasma TV stand about 5-6 feet apart from each other, and 3-4 feet away from back wall. My seating position will be 10 feet from subs with an additonal 8 feet behind the seats to the rear wall. Room is rectangular 24 x 12 x 7 (high). I'm wondering if it's worth sacrificing the dbl (stacked/side by side)for a more even bass distribution (5-6 feet apart).

 

[j_garcia]

Rythmik FV15 would be my choice in that range.

Epiks aren't known for being the cleanest sounding subs so I wouldn't recommend them for this application.

I've seen you mention this a few times, and I've heard a number of these other subs and I'll have to say the Empire is every bit as clean as one would want. I really don't get where that comes from, because it just doesn't fly. Reliability of the amps is a different story, but the Empire sounds excellent with music and does just as well with movies.

 

[hidefguy]

shadyJ

Just did some forum research on the Submersive. From what I gathered in the last 45 minutes of reading is that as far as quality goes the Submersive will put the SVS PB13 Ultra to shame with very little sacrifice in quantity. It should be a no brainer for me since Seaton is here in Chicago, and if any issue arise he would be able to fix it. The hard part is getting one of these locally in the used market.