Suggestions for replacement speaker needed.

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bobdehunt

Audioholic Intern
On one of my other threads, i posted that my tweeters squeaked with the bass and someone suggested i get new tweeters along with a pretty good reason as to why. Therefore, i need suggestions on what tweeters to get. I have done some research, but i cant find anything with the specs i need for a reasonable price. (Under 100 each if possible. Less is better). The tweeter diaphram needs to be less than 2 inches to fit in the waveguide (not the fancy jbl ones, its more of a horn). The sensitivity needs to be close to ninety five decibels, and it has to go down to at least 1500 hz, though the person who replied to my thread wrote that it needs to be 746 or something, but i know thats a really hard tweeter to find. If there is a resource to find speakers that fall into categories like this i could also go there and look for myself. I prefer a sweeter sound in tweeters rather than neccesarily accurate sound, and i havent had very good experiences with metal diaphragms, but i know that beggars cant be choosers. Your help is very much appreciated. Thanks.

(Edit: The tweeter must also be four ohms.)
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
On one of my other threads, i posted that my tweeters squeaked with the bass and someone suggested i get new tweeters along with a pretty good reason as to why. Therefore, i need suggestions on what tweeters to get. I have done some research, but i cant find anything with the specs i need for a reasonable price. (Under 100 each if possible. Less is better). The tweeter diaphram needs to be less than 2 inches to fit in the waveguide (not the fancy jbl ones, its more of a horn). The sensitivity needs to be close to ninety five decibels, and it has to go down to at least 1500 hz, though the person who replied to my thread wrote that it needs to be 746 or something, but i know thats a really hard tweeter to find. If there is a resource to find speakers that fall into categories like this i could also go there and look for myself. I prefer a sweeter sound in tweeters rather than neccesarily accurate sound, and i havent had very good experiences with metal diaphragms, but i know that beggars cant be choosers. Your help is very much appreciated. Thanks.
There is no tweeter that fits your criteria. Your crossover is 1500 Hz, since a crossover is not brick wall the tweeter needs to have a free air resonance an octave below 1500 Hz which is 750 Hz.

This tweeter comes closest.

It starts to roll off at 2000 Hz but gently and Fs is 700 Hz, so it will tolerate the application.

Since your speakers are basically junk, you will not notice the roll off. Unless your crossovers are very low order this driver will tolerate the application and not resonate.

To full fill your criteria would require a very powerful professional tweeter. From the description of your speakers that is certainly not warranted.
 
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bobdehunt

Audioholic Intern
There is no tweeter that fits your criteria. Your crossover is 1500 Hz, since a crossover is not brick wall the tweeter needs to have a free air resonance an octave below 1500 Hz which is 750 Hz.

This tweeter comes closest.

It starts to roll off at 2000 Hz but gently and Fs is 700 Hz, so it will tolerate the application.

Since your speakers are basically junk, you will not notice the roll off. Unless your crossovers are very low order this driver will tolerate the application and not resonate.

To full fill your criteria would require a very powerful professional tweeter. From the description of your speakers that is certainly not warranted.
I'm sorry, but i forgot to add that the original speaker was four ohms. That means that in the system, this tweeter will have a sensitivity of only around 90 decibels instead of 93 right?

Also, as a side note, these speakers are among some of the best I've listened to. I'm not sure how accurate they are neccisarily, but I definitely prefer them over the wharfdale 10.1 i used to have. They may be technically really bad, but i enjoy them.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm sorry, but i forgot to add that the original speaker was four ohms. That means that in the system, this tweeter will have a sensitivity of only around 90 decibels instead of 93 right?

Also, as a side note, these speakers are among some of the best I've listened to. I'm not sure how accurate they are neccisarily, but I definitely prefer them over the wharfdale 10.1 i used to have. They may be technically really bad, but i enjoy them.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Going to 8 ohm will also drop the crossover to the tweeter to 750 Hz.

I don't see a tweeter that will fit your application.

I would use the tweeter I specked, but halve the capacitor values and double the inductor values in the high pass circuit. If it sounds a little dull then pad the midrange down 3 db with an L-pad.

This highlights the problem that if you loose the driver in a speaker, then speaker will never sound the same and it is usually the end of the road for it.

What happened to the old tweeters?

You have posted virtually no information on these speakers, which means that giving you information is next to impossible.

I highly doubt the old tweeters were as sensitive as you claim.
 
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bobdehunt

Audioholic Intern
Going to 8 ohm will also drop the crossover to the tweeter to 750 Hz.

I don't see a tweeter that will fit your application.

I would use the tweeter I specked, but halve the capacitor values and double the inductor values in the high pass circuit. If it sounds a little dull then pad the midrange down 3 db with an L-pad.

This highlights the problem that if you loose the driver in a speaker, then speaker will never sound the same and it is usually the end of the road for it.

What happened to the old tweeters?

You have posted virtually no information on these speakers, which means that giving you information is next to impossible.

I highly doubt the old tweeters were as sensitive as you claim.
The old tweeters were made out of some sort of foam material that had been eaten through. The tweeters from a meter in my room were playing at 98 decibels in their waveguide when i gave them 1 watt and a sine wave. The tweeters i have now sound correct in the system, the highs aren't too loud and they have a sensitivity of 95 decibels. Ill run Some sine waves and see if the tweeters are louder than they should be. I dont have much info on the speakers. The bass and mids are jenson drivers. The crossovers are pretty steep, and they seem to be very high quality. Its a three way design. Thats about all i know about them though. Ill attach some pics of the speakers and crossovers too once i find my al
153278862630437839676.jpg
an wrench set.
 
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bobdehunt

Audioholic Intern
I highly doubt the old tweeters were as sensitive as you claim.
I was able to find my alan wrench set and take a pic of the xovers. Turns out a friend of mine had the wrenches.

Also, my xover point at 1500 hz that i mention was just a guess. Thats just the frequency where it sounds like the tweeter starts to play as loud as the mid.
1534040267742-171861895.jpg
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Those crossovers are first order three way with only 6 db slopes. the shallowest slopes you can get and NOT steep. Those speakers are junk, yes, total junk and a lost cause. I'm not spending anymore time on those. They are a bin job.
 
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bobdehunt

Audioholic Intern
Those crossovers are first order three way with only 6 db slopes. the shallowest slopes you can get and NOT steep. Those speakers are junk, yes, total junk and a lost cause. I'm not spending anymore time on those. They are a bin job.
Thanks for the reply and explaining the xovers. Im actually very suprised that the speakers are junky. Nonetheless, I'm keeping them till I hear something better (to me) for under five hundred. I may eventually rebuild the xovers to be better quality then, but I'm planning to keep the other components the same, except for the tweeters obviously.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for the reply and explaining the xovers. Im actually very suprised that the speakers are junky. Nonetheless, I'm keeping them till I hear something better (to me) for under five hundred. I may eventually rebuild the xovers to be better quality then, but I'm planning to keep the other components the same, except for the tweeters obviously.
Before you can and design crossovers, you will have to measure the driver parameters. The cost of the equipment to do that will be around the cost of what you plan to spend in your next speakers.
 
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bobdehunt

Audioholic Intern
The cost of the equipment to do that will be around the cost of what you plan to spend in your next speakers.
If I learned more about crossovers, couldnt I just find the existing crossover points and use those with better components and steeper slopes? The existing crossover points may not be perfect, but they seem to have been working so far.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
If I learned more about crossovers, couldnt I just find the existing crossover points and use those with better components and steeper slopes? The existing crossover points may not be perfect, but they seem to have been working so far.
That would be guess work. At best, you might get lucky and stumble over something better. I think, the chances for that are highly unlikely. You'd have much better results if you learn, by direct measurement, what each driver's actual acoustic performance is. Good speaker crossovers must be custom designed for the drivers and the cabinets. Generic information about crossovers, without any knowledge about the performance of your three drivers will not help.

The crossover parts in your photo appear to be decent quality. (The crossover design, however, may not be the best for those three drivers.) Do yourself a favor and ignore any advice about getting better sound quality by replacing capacitors or resistors with more costly parts. Those myths are hardly any different than those advocating the use of exotic speaker cables.

In short, before you can do anything useful with those speakers, you must be able to measure the performance of each individual driver without a crossover filter. As TLS Guy said, such a measuring rig will cost you about the same as you plan to spend for new speakers. In addition, you will have to spend substantial time learning how to use it before you get useful results.
 
B

bobdehunt

Audioholic Intern
That would be guess work. At best, you might get lucky and stumble over something better. I think, the chances for that are highly unlikely. You'd have much better results if you learn, by direct measurement, what each driver's actual acoustic performance is. Good speaker crossovers must be custom designed for the drivers and the cabinets. Generic information about crossovers, without any knowledge about the performance of your three drivers will not help.

The crossover parts in your photo appear to be decent quality. (The crossover design, however, may not be the best for those three drivers.) Do yourself a favor and ignore any advice about getting better sound quality by replacing capacitors or resistors with more costly parts. Those myths are hardly any different than those advocating the use of exotic speaker cables.

In short, before you can do anything useful with those speakers, you must be able to measure the performance of each individual driver without a crossover filter. As TLS Guy said, such a measuring rig will cost you about the same as you plan to spend for new speakers. In addition, you will have to spend substantial time learning how to use it before you get useful results.
Okay. Thanks a lot for the helpful information.
 
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